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Thread: 5w4

  1. #1
    Senior Member Array Rebe's Avatar
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    Default 5w4

    I like this description the best so far. I will bold the parts that describes me very well. I am more comfortable with myers-briggs and socionics than ennegrams.

    Five with four-wing

    Average 5/4 is the prototype personality for research scientists.
    Analytical and detached from their emotions, but passionate about beauty and truth, they want to find the ultimate, simple explanation for
    everything
    . Their intellectual fiveness makes them likely to engage in
    long, professorial monologues, while their four-wing gives them a shy
    self-consciousness
    . Unlike the more depressive 4/5, they are likely to have
    a generally optimistic view, although they can get depressed if they become
    overwhelmed by the world's demands. 5/4s are usually less interested in
    social interactions than the more other-dependent 5/6.


    Balanced 5/4 is more able to participate in life. When the fiveish desire
    to withdraw and sort things out is no longer compulsive, then the
    consciously chosen time alone becomes a tool for understanding the world
    ,
    rather than an entrapping habit. The fourish passion for beauty emerges as
    the conscious result of harnessing the emotions rather than being their
    slave. Healthy 5/4s begin to deeply understand the simple, elegant way that the awesome complexity of the world emerges from fundamental principles. They find great joy in watching and learning.

    When the perception of five and the passion of four are augmented by
    eight's power and leadership, plus one's intuitive wisdom, clear
    comprehensions can be transmitted to others. Very balanced 5/4s can be
    tremendously creative teachers of How The World Works, who explain things
    with clean, elegant sentences. Yet for all its simple clarity, their
    teaching carries with it a profound appreciation for the subtle beauty of
    Creation. (Come with me on a journey of discovery. Let's look together at
    the awsome profundity of Nature and Consciousness.)

    Unbalanced 5/4 gets lost in the details. The compulsive analysis of five
    can lead to elaborate pseudo-logical constructions designed to explain
    everything. The four-wing's emotionality adds a flavor of dramatic
    hopelessness. Others Simply Do Not Understand. No one could understand. So
    5/4 retreats to a place of safety, hoping to escape from view, continuing
    to uncover the truth. There is little to no social involvement.


    In the extreme, the panic and scattered mania of seven combine with twoish
    self-congratulatory hysteria. In a seeming reversal, 5/4 can come back into
    the world, awkward and excitable, ready to bolt but equally ready to
    passionately defend a bizarre, baroque fantasy world. As inner tension
    builds, schizoid withdrawal from reality becomes more and more likely. The
    end result is a kind of terrified fugue, completely cut off from reality.
    The only escape from the constant overwhelming chaos is inward.

    5/4 is generally not much into appearance. Reasonable, ordinary clothing,
    not too bold. Comfort is quite important. Thick glasses are common maybe
    a result of a great deal of careful examination of tiny objects during
    childhood? There is often a rumpled, dissheveled quality. The exceptions
    are those well-dressed 5/4's whose four-wings impel them towards an
    aesthetically appealing appearance.
    Also, note that sometimes unhealthy
    5/4s can dress and act in sevenishly colorful ways.

    Some 5/4s find work that combines intellect and aesthetics. Cosmologists,
    futurists, science fiction authors. Others dive deeply into some highly
    specialized discipline, becoming computer programmers, nuclear physicists,
    theoretical scientists, molecular biologists, surface scientists, or any of
    a thousand other highly technical jobs. There are 5/4 science reporters,
    poets, painters, and photographers. Of course, 5/4s can also be found doing
    many other kinds of work.
    http://users.actrix.co.nz/grimm/5w4.txt

    As far as research scientists go, my interest is social science, not science itself and I would primarily want to deal with theoretical data that focuses on the consequences that it would have on civilization. I am more of an idea person than a people person, but my ideas are there because of my concern for people and I believe in my empathy to do good and my ability to see the bigger picture.

    Though vice versa, I am only really interested in people who are connected to my ideas. If you live in a developed country and just got divorce, I don't really care. I will be traumatized by your example of human kind, but I will be distraught for no higher purpose. If you live in an underdeveloped country with five kids and no future, then I want to understand your situation, and compare that to the global situation and figure out ways to change that.

    I am empathic to my friends and I take my emotions hard sometimes, but I do always have big ideas in my mind. I believe in global possibilities. When I am older, I want to explore and do all of this, not gossip in someone's backyard about someone's divorce. It really pisses me off to see capable adults spend a majority of their time at work gossiping. *shudders*

    I have always been this way, but when I couldn't focus this Ne energy on anything but my emotions, I became a fictional writer. And the implications from my stories about my raw emotions disturb me. So I have stopped writing. I also can't read fiction anymore. All those blah blah blahs annoy me for some reason.

    I constantly say stuff like I wish I am a robot, so I don't have to feel emotions.

    I like to make lists. I like to plan out my life. I appreciate art a great deal, for the aesthetics and the emotional landscapes. An INTJ looked at a painting of a colorful side of a house and felt nothing while I felt very warm and uplifted because it looked like it was in some hideaway countryside town in Europe and I imagine myself there and the possibilities there.

    Do I sound like a 5w4? It's either that or 4w5. I don't clearly understand the difference.

  2. #2
    A passer by Array yvonne's Avatar
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    i'm 5w4 infp, too... and relate to some of what you're saying... i have to go to bed, but i'd be interested in continuing about this later.

  3. #3
    man-made Array neptunesnet's Avatar
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    Have you compared what you can relate to in the 5w4 description to what you can relate to in the 4w5 description?

    That might help.

  4. #4
    A passer by Array yvonne's Avatar
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    yeah, i don't... i mean it is relative... emotion is emotion no matter what triggers it. a divorce is a big deal for a family and for the two people involved, even though it isn't a big deal on a global scale, as you say. also, people are happy with different things. it's always important to look at things at the root level. it isn't that "simple". we are all different, but similar and we must have freedom, but responsibility, as well.

    things aren't always the way they seem. that's why i want to use my emotions to try to understand people, to care... to live as a human being. i don't want to be a robot, although sometimes i feel like my feelings are coming in the way... i feel deeply, but i want to be fair. i want feelings to be tended to, but i don't want to misinterpret a situation, because i feel a certain way and then end up actually hurting myself, or the person i was trying to help, or understand.

    i suppose what i'm trying to say is that i would like to use my feelings in a positive way. i don't want them to turn against me, or the people i deeply care about. i have made mistakes with my feelings, but it happens. logic is something that is more reliable to me, but i have to remember... first attend to feelings, then apply logic... this is what i've learned. i am learning about my feelings, even though sometimes i feel like this robot on my avatar. like "i see your heart... look! i see it... but can you see mine? it is there and you can see it if you try... but be gentle, ok?"

  5. #5
    Senior Member Array MiasmaResonance's Avatar
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    4w5 vs. 5w4..

    First off, I can tell you I am a 5w4 with a fairly strong T (though I sometimes question it, and go back and forth between 5w4 and 5w6).

    The 4w5 (which I closely relate to the INFP type, as do many others) has the "intellectual" interest, but it is expressed in almost romantic ways. It becomes more personal, and human, whereas with the 5w4 there is usually complete detachment from the human element.

    A 4w5 will become passionate about a cause or an emotion, where the 5w4 will become passionate about an idea or thought.


    The 5 here will give both types the motivation to investigate, or seek an ultimate "truth", but for different reasons.

    Emotion vs objectiveness.
    Romance vs science fiction.

    The 4 here will lead both of these types to usually be drawn to abstractions.
    As an example: art.
    There is however a difference here.
    The 4w5 will look at an abstract painting of a grotesquely disfigured human in a surrealistic setting, and have trouble finding beauty or any emotion other than repulsion because the work is not visibly human anymore.

    The 5w4 will look at the same art and be drawn to it, because of this ambiguity. It leaves something to uncover, and digest overtime, and the non-human element is not of great importance; in fact, it is welcomed and even desired.

    That last bit is of course not true in all cases, though I do believe it conveys the message correctly.

    Can the original INFP 5w4 posters perhaps tell me if their F percentage is high or low?
    "A spill at the plant increased the phosphates in the lake and produced a scum of algae so thick that the swamp smell filled the air, infiltrating the genteel mansions. Debutantes cried over the misfortune of coming out in a season everyone would remember for its bad smell."

  6. #6
    Senior Member Array Rebe's Avatar
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    A 4w5 will become passionate about a cause or an emotion, where the 5w4 will become passionate about an idea or thought.
    I never like the emotion vs thought/idea debate. I can never figure it out that way.

    The 5 here will give both types the motivation to investigate, or seek an ultimate "truth", but for different reasons.
    Hmm...

    Emotion vs objectiveness.
    Romance vs science fiction.
    I hate science fiction so I will lean way toward romance and not grotesquely distorted things. Because I imagine human pain in it. But if I see an assortment of blocks in an array of colors, I will still be intrigued.

    I am very human-oriented, just don't really like each individual human as they are. Hmmm ...

  7. #7
    Paragon Gone Wrong Array OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    It's hard to tell when you feel almost equally 4 & 5. I can relate to both, almost wholly. Even the contradictions are manifest, just in different areas of my life. I often test INTP, but always close on T/F. However, in cognitive functions tests, I am always Fi-dom.

    The 4 can sound too over-dramatic and the 5 can sound too stoic at times, but then I read that a 5 may question their type because they do feel emotion and think a 5 is not supposed to, and a 4 may question their type because descriptions sounds too emotional and they aren't that expressive....

    The art example doesn't seem true to me because an INFP 4 is going to be seeking hidden meaning and will not take things literally. INFPs are also often drawn to the morbid, dark things. Repulsiveness may intrigue an INFP.
    "Happiness is beneficial for the body, but it is grief that develops the powers of the mind." - Proust,
    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx - 451| RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive

  8. #8
    See Right Through Me Array Bubbles's Avatar
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    4w5 and 5w4 are the most introverted of all the combos. So of course it'll be a toughie to figure out!

    I'd recommend stepping away from the vague profiles for a moment. There are other differences in the types! For example:

    4: Focus on themselves.
    5: Focus on the world outside themselves.

    Which Triad better suits you: Heart or Thinking? Which disintegration/integration better suits you? Google some stuff, wings can get just too confusing sometimes when you don't even have a solid type figured out.

    I'm dating a 5w4 and have 4w5 friends. My opinion? 4s and 5s are totally different animals, haha.
    4w3, IEI, so/sx/sp, female, and Cancer sign.

    My thoughts on...
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    DISCLAIMER: If I offend you, I'm 99.9% sure it's unintentional. So be sure to let me know, m'kay? (And yes, an INFP would stick this in their signature, lol.)

  9. #9
    Senior Member Array MiasmaResonance's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post

    The art example doesn't seem true to me because an INFP 4 is going to be seeking hidden meaning and will not take things literally. INFPs are also often drawn to the morbid, dark things. Repulsiveness may intrigue an INFP.
    I wouldn't say they are often drawn to that. There are certain 'other' types within the MBTI personality types, and it is not easy to sort them all out. Some may be attracted to those dark things, while many others may like the lighter side.

    I myself am intrigued by dark or morbid things, while other INTPs may not be. As always, there are different modes of thinking and feeling within each type.

    Past and present experiences can influence our taste in art just as much as personality can. *shrug*

    The letters we are given are an overview, as are the numbers we are given with the Enneagram.

    Like I said when I brought up the art thing..it is more an exaggeration to prove a point, rather than an absolute truth.
    "A spill at the plant increased the phosphates in the lake and produced a scum of algae so thick that the swamp smell filled the air, infiltrating the genteel mansions. Debutantes cried over the misfortune of coming out in a season everyone would remember for its bad smell."

  10. #10
    Senior Member Array valentine's Avatar
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    5w4, and F is my lowest score. The integration/disintegration are good places to start at if you are strong in both 4 and 5.

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