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Thread: 5w4

  1. #11
    Senior Member Rebe's Avatar
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    Seems like I act like a 4 when I am stressed/depressed. It may be the core of who I am.
    But when I am confident and feel capable, I am more 1 or rather, I aspire to be 1 but the only way of becoming a 1 is by becoming a 5. Does that make sense?

    1's Key Motivations: Want to be right, to strive higher and improve everything, to be consistent with their ideals, to justify themselves, to be beyond criticism so as not to be condemned by anyone.

    4's Key Motivations: Want to express themselves and their individuality, to create and surround themselves with beauty, to maintain certain moods and feelings, to withdraw to protect their self-image, to take care of emotional needs before attending to anything else, to attract a "rescuer." - Oh good god, WHAT.

    5's Key Motivations: Want to possess knowledge, to understand the environment, to have everything figured out as a way of defending the self from threats from the environment.

    I see 4 as describing most of the negative traits in myself, not negative traits in general, just undesirable traits in myself only because I have certain aspirations. Because of those aspirations, I see 5 as what I Need to Be in order to become a 1. 1 is the type that gets those aspirations completed. And if I don't complete those aspirations, I am not worth anything, personal relationships won't mean anything, everything that I have done and gone through won't mean anything, nothing will make sense.

    So what does that mean?

    Neither of the disintegration types fit me at all. Integration-wise, I lean more toward 1 than 8.

  2. #12
    Feelin' FiNe speculative's Avatar
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    Good idea to look at other factors such as direction of integration. Usually, these can help determine E-type where it is a close call. The levels of health might offer further insight, but they can get complicated.

    Is your hidden complaint:

    a. that you are so smart that no one else understands the things you understand/know?
    or
    b. that you are different and don't fit in?

    If you know the FiSi loop, I would say that more closely parallels 4w5 than 5w4...






    (option a if type 5, option b is type 4)
    "How can I be, all I want to be,
    When all I want to do is strip away these stilled constraints
    And crush this charade, shred this sad, masquerade"
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGeq5v7L3WM

  3. #13
    #005645 phthalocyanine's Avatar
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    i'm a 4w5.

    much of the imagery i use in my art would be considered dark, even morbid or twisted, but i like to juxtapose that with beauty, elegance, symmetry, natural forms... i see a process of metamorphosis in life and i try to portray that in a way that is honest (including that which is unpleasant), but also essentially constructive, transformative, and beautiful...

    well...maybe on a darker day it will be more of a degenerative theme, where something beautiful begins to decay...but from my perspective, decay and death are natural and necessary aspects of life's cycle.

    i think both the 4w5 and 5w4 see a lot of broken, incompleteness around them, but also see underlying origins and patterns behind that which is ordered, complete, or beautiful, and instinctively understand that destruction leads to creation, and vice versa...that nature is cyclical rather than finite.

    what they do with that understanding seems to be ultimately different, however.

  4. #14
    man-made neptunesnet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebe View Post
    Integration-wise, I lean more toward 1 than 8.
    Hm. I think Fours integrate to One, but I could be wrong.

  5. #15
    See Right Through Me Bubbles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebe View Post
    Seems like I act like a 4 when I am stressed/depressed. It may be the core of who I am.
    But when I am confident and feel capable, I am more 1 or rather, I aspire to be 1 but the only way of becoming a 1 is by becoming a 5. Does that make sense?

    ...

    I see 4 as describing most of the negative traits in myself, not negative traits in general, just undesirable traits in myself only because I have certain aspirations. Because of those aspirations, I see 5 as what I Need to Be in order to become a 1. 1 is the type that gets those aspirations completed. And if I don't complete those aspirations, I am not worth anything, personal relationships won't mean anything, everything that I have done and gone through won't mean anything, nothing will make sense.
    Fact: 4s concentrate more on the negative traits of themselves. That's why it's so prominent in the descriptions: we dwell on our faults, our insecurities, and we wonder about them and try to make sense of them...

    5s do this, but with the world. They try to make sense of the world.
    4w3, IEI, so/sx/sp, female, and Cancer sign.

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    DISCLAIMER: If I offend you, I'm 99.9% sure it's unintentional. So be sure to let me know, m'kay? (And yes, an INFP would stick this in their signature, lol.)

  6. #16
    lab rat extraordinaire CrystalViolet's Avatar
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    Whilst I identify with INFP, this description is a very accurate description of myself.
    Currently submerged under an avalanche of books and paper work. I may come back up for air from time to time.
    Real life awaits and she is a demanding mistress.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  7. #17
    A passer by yvonne's Avatar
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    i think you sound more like a 4 OP... that's just the vibe i get. i don't know, though.

  8. #18
    Senior Member compulsiverambler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bubbles View Post
    Fact: 4s concentrate more on the negative traits of themselves. That's why it's so prominent in the descriptions: we dwell on our faults, our insecurities, and we wonder about them and try to make sense of them...

    5s do this, but with the world. They try to make sense of the world.
    I'm 5w4, definitely 5 anyway, and I have in the past put much time and effort into making sense of my faults. However that's because they were making a serious mess of my life and I was very confused about what was wrong and what to do about it. Fives' most influential fear (by definition) is that we're not capable of dealing with everyday life demands. That's the underlying motivation for all the other associated Five behaviours. In my case, I am genuinely, clinically impaired in that area, probably explaining (along with where my particular strengths happen to lie) why I became a Five.

    What you say about Fours is true but it can be true of Fives as well, just for different reasons. I haven't tended to dwell on my faults because I wanted to like myself more, but because I wanted to know I could rely on myself more. I am my own unfit parent, not my own distorted mirror.

  9. #19
    A passer by yvonne's Avatar
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    ^ well put.

  10. #20
    See Right Through Me Bubbles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by compulsiverambler View Post
    I'm 5w4, definitely 5 anyway, and I have in the past put much time and effort into making sense of my faults. However that's because they were making a serious mess of my life and I was very confused about what was wrong and what to do about it. Fives' most influential fear (by definition) is that we're not capable of dealing with everyday life demands. That's the underlying motivation for all the other associated Five behaviours. In my case, I am genuinely, clinically impaired in that area, probably explaining (along with where my particular strengths happen to lie) why I became a Five.

    What you say about Fours is true but it can be true of Fives as well, just for different reasons. I haven't tended to dwell on my faults because I wanted to like myself more, but because I wanted to know I could rely on myself more. I am my own unfit parent, not my own distorted mirror.
    The bolded I should have made clear. Different types have the same behaviors all the time with different motivations, and I think I was trying to quickly sum up something that should've been better expanded upon.

    Also I'd been trying to quickly run through Riso and Hudson for the most basic of basic explanation of differences I could find, and I clearly shouldn't do that without adding an explanation. My apologies.
    4w3, IEI, so/sx/sp, female, and Cancer sign.

    My thoughts on...
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    DISCLAIMER: If I offend you, I'm 99.9% sure it's unintentional. So be sure to let me know, m'kay? (And yes, an INFP would stick this in their signature, lol.)

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