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  1. #1
    Shaman BlackCat's Avatar
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    Default 8's and w8s- Being too blunt?

    Often I am really blunt, yet try to avoid offending people (9w8). I think that I offend people too much, specifically people who are sensitive; or if what we're talking about is a sensitive topic and I am perceiving it in a different way from the person.

    Then one of a few things can happen... they get notably offended and I'm really not sure why, they get hostile because they think I'm being a dick, or they bottle up how they are offended and I detect it, but I'm not sure why.

    This shit just pisses me off. I do adjust to this after I see that they get offended or I'm told, but I can't help that they get offended in the first place.

    It's especially bad when I'm angry. When I'm angry I speak first, think after. And it's usually really bad.

    Anyone have any similar problems? Experiences? Are there some people you just can't associate with because of these kinds of things?
    () 9w8-3w4-7w6 tritype.

    sCueI (primary Inquisition)

  2. #2
    RETIRED CzeCze's Avatar
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    On the forum BlackCat, you don't seem blunt or abrasive at all. I wouldn't have guessed you are an 8 wing. Ape, who recently got banned, is a self-professed 8w7. I have a friend whom I strongly suspect is 8w7 or 7w8 and as I always say, she is HELLA abrasive.

    I think for some people who are abrasive - yet remain relatively popular all things considered - it's because there is a plain obliviousness behind their abrasiveness. Like a puppy bull in a chinashop. They are totally unaware of how abrasive they are or other peopel's reactions, I guess 'utter cluelessness' is a polite way to put it.

    In many social situations, if you pretend or do not acknowledge something publicly or 'ingroup' then 'it doesn't exist'. I think abrasive people slide by in (some/certain) social situations because of this principle.

    This is in contrast to people who are consciously and even strategically very aggressive, confrontational, even hostile. They are beyond self-aware of how they are acting - they may not care if they make you uncomfortable because they may actually be trying to intimdate you/get their way/actually enjoy being a jerk. It's harder to like those people.

    Is it possible that being an ISFP (and Fi dom) and a 9 that you are more sensitive to people's reactions to you?
    “If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.” ― Oscar Wilde

    "I'm outtie 5000" ― Romulux

    Johari/Nohari

  3. #3
    Shaman BlackCat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CzeCze View Post
    On the forum BlackCat, you don't seem blunt or abrasive at all. I wouldn't have guessed you are an 8 wing. Ape, who recently got banned, is a self-professed 8w7. I have a friend whom I strongly suspect is 8w7 or 7w8 and as I always say, she is HELLA abrasive.
    Yeah I wouldn't consider myself abrasive at all, I'm just blunt and sometimes when I speak my mind it offends some people. These people are usually really hyper sensitive to how people say things, or as I said in my post; I'm unaware of their sensitivities and mess up just because of my general style. I usually end up offending friends at least once while knowing them just because I'm not really aware of sensitivities unless I'm told or it's perceived from their actions.

    And on the internet there is a backspace button... which I use all the time when debating with people.

    Is it possible that being an ISFP (and Fi dom) and a 9 that you are more sensitive to people's reactions to you?
    Oh yes. That is definitely why. I don't have as much tact as a 9w1 would have, or as any of the other kinds of IFPs would have. I am very sensitive to people's reactions, but offending people still happens. That's why it frustrates me.

    It's usually the type 2s who react the worst (think stereotypical EFJ). With them I get "You could have said that differently" a lot, then I think "well why does it matter? Control your damn emotions." and I lose respect for them because of that; thus losing the motivation to try to be nice.

    There are just certain kinds of people that I can't be around because of this. People who are sensitive to any criticism are just annoying... if someone I respect is doing something stupid I'll tell them that it's stupid and that they shouldn't do it anymore. If I think that something is their fault when they are explaining something that has happened to them to me, I'll tell them. Some people just can't handle not always being perfect or taking the blame for something.

    I honestly don't have too many issues with a lot of people. I can be a bit too intense for some people, but I actually like that. Just some especially sensitive people are a huge problem for me. Like, what if I ended up with someone like them as a boss or something?

    I just want to be a good person; really. And when conflicts like this that happen I feel pretty shitty about myself.
    () 9w8-3w4-7w6 tritype.

    sCueI (primary Inquisition)

  4. #4
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
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    In circles of friends, I think I can get away with being blunt because I'm consistently blunt. I say what I think when I think it. Also because sometimes I'm rather crass. But I think people also get that I'm essentially a good guy because I'm blunt in-tune with my own values which are very live and let live. And also because I sometime am too blunt and judgy as a joke so people don't even take it seriously anymore and just filter my aggressive mode of communication automatically. But I do tend to get in trouble with FJ types sometimes.

    My boss when I worked at this restaurant said I was grumpy and crazy, but we still got along pretty well. I think my honesty from the get go just disarms people sometimes. Once they get used to it, they appreciate it. They'll always be on my arse about it calling me thinks like grumpy and confrontational, but it's more about teasing me than anything.

  5. #5
    Member Illict91's Avatar
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    Whilst an opinion will always remain just an 'opinion', the truth is undeniable and based on pure commonsense at times.

    If you ask me, people are too concerned with social niceties and all that bullcrap of protecting someone's feelings.
    ENTJ

    Te > Ni > Ti > Se = Si > Fe > Ne > Fi

  6. #6
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    I don't TRY to be too blunt

    I tend to speak first and then think, which can get me in some trouble with people who don't realize this trait and somehow assume that I'm out to get them

    When I REALIZE that I'm going to say something blunt (i.e. "when are you going to quit letting some bitch with a FUPA run your life... seriously, if you're not going to listen to my advice I don't see why I have to listen anymore! :rolli:") I tend to announce that it might be somewhat blunt ahead of time "sorry- this might come out a bit blunt, but it's meant in the nicest possible manner!

    People who know me rarely take offense and strangers usually get over it pretty quickly with an explanation!
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  7. #7
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    I don't TRY to be too blunt

    I tend to speak first and then think, which can get me in some trouble with people who don't realize this trait and somehow assume that I'm out to get them

    When I REALIZE that I'm going to say something blunt (i.e. "when are you going to quit letting some bitch with a FUPA run your life... seriously, if you're not going to listen to my advice I don't see why I have to listen anymore! :rolli:") I tend to announce that it might be somewhat blunt ahead of time "sorry- this might come out a bit blunt, but it's meant in the nicest possible manner!

    People who know me rarely take offense and strangers usually get over it pretty quickly with an explanation!
    Yeah I feel the same about myself. Sometimes my introverts friends can be good for telling me not to say something that might be perceived as too involuntarily harsh
    ENTj 7-3-8 sx/sp

  8. #8
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    Wow, this is so far removed from the way I operate. But it's intriguing and I have a lot to learn from it!

    Usually, I tend to just subconsciously process my words and tell people things in the way that I think they'd want to hear them. It just comes out that way. In the rare instances where I can't find a 'decent' way to phrase what I have to say, I end up faltering, stuttering, or just not stating my opinion.

    My bigger problem is trying to be more direct and blunt when situations call for it, and not subconsciously treating everyone as if they're made of china.

  9. #9
    Artisan Conquerer Halla74's Avatar
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    I am 7w8 AND ESTP.

    My score on the bluntness scale of 1-10 is 15.7.

    It is interesting that you mention this BlackCat as I have traditionally attributed my bluntness to being a "Thinker", as my initial instances of hurting people's feelings after I was aware of my type and theirs were with friends of mine who are "Feelers."

    Then I realized it might be the STP in me, as many XSTPs here have indicated at one point or another that they were typically considered blunt by others and had ruffled the feathers of others in the past.

    Regarding core features of 7's and 8's, the following apply to me...

    From Enneagram Institute:

    Type Seven in Brief
    7 - Enneagram Type Seven: The Enthusiast

    Sevens are extroverted, optimistic, versatile, and spontaneous. Playful, high-spirited, and practical, they can also misapply their many talents, becoming over- extended, scattered, and undisciplined. They constantly seek new and exciting experiences, but can become distracted and exhausted by staying on the go. They typically have problems with impatience and impulsiveness. At their Best: they focus their talents on worthwhile goals, becoming appreciative, joyous, and satisfied.

    All of the above applies to me...

    Type Eight in Brief
    8 - Enneagram Type Eight: The Challenger

    Eights are self-confident, strong, and assertive. Protective, resourceful, straight-talking, and decisive, but can also be ego-centric and domineering. Eights feel they must control their environment, especially people, sometimes becoming confrontational and intimidating. Eights typically have problems with their tempers and with allowing themselves to be vulnerable. At their Best: self- mastering, they use their strength to improve others' lives, becoming heroic, magnanimous, and inspiring.

    Only the bolded blue in the 8 description applies to me...which is basically most of it.

    So, I guess I have some thinking to do (or maybe I should "feel" it out) as to what the cause of my bluntness is with regard to my Enneagram traits.

    For the most part, whenever I am more blunt with someone than they expect (or like to deal with) it is a non-issue as they know I am a practical problem solver (especially at work). But, it's the interpersonal relationships that are really tricky for me. One of the hardest things for me still to this day even after working on it so, so much is to listen to my wife and allow her to "be heard" without replying to her with a tactical list of things to do to solve her problems.
    --------------------
    Type Stats:
    MBTI -> (E) 77.14% | (i) 22.86% ; (S) 60% | (n) 40% ; (T) 72.22% | (f) 27.78% ; (P) 51.43% | (j) 48.57%
    BIG 5 -> Extroversion 77% ; Accommodation 60% ; Orderliness 62% ; Emotional Stability 64% ; Open Mindedness 74%

    Quotes:
    "If somebody asks your MBTI type on a first date, run". -Donna Cecilia
    "Enneagram is psychological underpinnings. Cognitive Functions are mental reasoning and perceptional processes. -Sanjuro

  10. #10
    RETIRED CzeCze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halla74
    1097026]One of the hardest things for me still to this day even after working on it so, so much is to listen to my wife and allow her to "be heard" without replying to her with a tactical list of things to do to solve her problems.
    Bingo! I think this may be one of the cruxes (yes, there can be multiple!) to your issue BlackCat. More than being annoyed you offended someone, you seem annoyed that someone would have an emotional reaction to advice or 'common sense' you try to give. Emotional and intellectual responses can be separated and co-exist (i.e. I can be very hurt or angry but still understand people's arguments) or it's a matter of time and a place. Sometimes people don't want to hear advice or have things fixed, they just want to vent so any advice given is not received well.

    Or what Whatever said that it's "speak first/think later". I have an ENTP as well as an ENFP friend who have that...um...pattern. The ENFP ends up saying stuff that is inappropriate (but he either finds funny or doesn't have a problem with) and the ENTP can sound rude. Neither are strangers to apologizing. :P

    In contrast, there's Mr Eyebrow's approach which is to already assume people can have an emotional reaction or take something personally or to heart so package everything beforehand with that in mind (that's more my approach as well).

    I guess your options are to try to be more mindful before you speak to people you know to be sensitive or that could react negatively to what you have to say. And to not necessarily judge their reactions as oversensitivity or weakness. I mean, truthfully, you probably could have worded yourself a little differently, right? Or perhaps it's the insinuation that you insulted someone "on purpose"?

    Maybe just prefacing what you say with "I don't mean to sound harsh and I'm not belittling you but -" and then separate their emotional response from how they take your advice.

    Honestly, I do separate the two. There are so many instances where you may agree with someone's point but not the way it was delivered. Or think someone is right but took things too far, etc. Also, people can be very turned off by what you tell them or the way you tell them but they will still take your advice to heart.
    “If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.” ― Oscar Wilde

    "I'm outtie 5000" ― Romulux

    Johari/Nohari

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