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  1. #31
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    Some people don't think of me as very blunt, but I know I can be. This is especially true with family, and close friends, though the motivations are more out of respect for them to tell them the truth moreso than the sort of bluntness I do with strangers.

    With strangers: A classic case of my blunt mouth coming out is a recent conversation with an advisor I had at my school that had caused a huge fuss already.. She nonchalantly tells me, "Did you send the email?" 'What email?' "The email with your student ID, name, and that you need to be certified." 'I've never heard of this before.. could you help me?' (I asked this because she never actually gave me an address to email it to.) To which she replies, "Well, you can do this yourself anytime.." And I stand up and just say loud enough for the cubicles next to us to hear, 'If you're that reluctant to help me, just SAY so and I'll ask someone else for this information and their assistance ma'am.' She straightens up, and says, "No no, I can help you this time, here is the address..." ..

    Classic example around family: I was having another talk with my youngest sister about how she talks and treats her mother, and how that's affecting her mother. She starts to cry and I ask what is making her cry, and she states, "When you say things like that you make me sound like a bad person!" and I reply, "I'm only telling you what I've seen you do. If those actions make you a bad person, you should be happy that you're finally realizing that they're bad, so you can correct them.. and then you won't have a reason to cry anymore." .... To me, I was being compassionate by opening her eyes to things from people outside of herself.. to her, I was being crude and brutal when it wasn't necessary to do so..
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  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post

    Classic example around family: I was having another talk with my youngest sister about how she talks and treats her mother, and how that's affecting her mother. She starts to cry and I ask what is making her cry, and she states, "When you say things like that you make me sound like a bad person!" and I reply, "I'm only telling you what I've seen you do. If those actions make you a bad person, you should be happy that you're finally realizing that they're bad, so you can correct them.. and then you won't have a reason to cry anymore." .... To me, I was being compassionate by opening her eyes to things from people outside of herself.. to her, I was being crude and brutal when it wasn't necessary to do so..
    This sounds like the interaction between me and my older sister when I was still in my teens. LOL! Your response sounds exactly like hers!

  3. #33
    brainheart
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    This thread has me leaning more towards 9w8 for myself... grr....


    EDIT: but then i read the RH chapter on 8 and it sounds nothing like me, while 1, 1 is totally there...
    Last edited by brainheart; 03-11-2011 at 12:51 PM.

  4. #34
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    other people tell me I'm too assertive, but I just don't think I am. in fact, I think being too assertive is an oxymoron since being assertive is taking both parties best interests into account. that being said, being type 8 doesn't mean I go around talking like Indiana Jones all day (I am an NF after all lol). I like to think my approach is a little more empathetic, even if it is extremely honest and direct.

  5. #35
    Senior Member Chloe's Avatar
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    Hahaha - you are awesome!!!
    With sister's examle you sound compassionate! I love bluntness+integrity whoch you seem to have!

    What type is ur sister?

    Maybe 9

    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    Some people don't think of me as very blunt, but I know I can be. This is especially true with family, and close friends, though the motivations are more out of respect for them to tell them the truth moreso than the sort of bluntness I do with strangers.

    With strangers: A classic case of my blunt mouth coming out is a recent conversation with an advisor I had at my school that had caused a huge fuss already.. She nonchalantly tells me, "Did you send the email?" 'What email?' "The email with your student ID, name, and that you need to be certified." 'I've never heard of this before.. could you help me?' (I asked this because she never actually gave me an address to email it to.) To which she replies, "Well, you can do this yourself anytime.." And I stand up and just say loud enough for the cubicles next to us to hear, 'If you're that reluctant to help me, just SAY so and I'll ask someone else for this information and their assistance ma'am.' She straightens up, and says, "No no, I can help you this time, here is the address..." ..

    Classic example around family: I was having another talk with my youngest sister about how she talks and treats her mother, and how that's affecting her mother. She starts to cry and I ask what is making her cry, and she states, "When you say things like that you make me sound like a bad person!" and I reply, "I'm only telling you what I've seen you do. If those actions make you a bad person, you should be happy that you're finally realizing that they're bad, so you can correct them.. and then you won't have a reason to cry anymore." .... To me, I was being compassionate by opening her eyes to things from people outside of herself.. to her, I was being crude and brutal when it wasn't necessary to do so..

  6. #36
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    This thread is interesting since it appears to put 8's on the defensive. There's an element of "good" and "bad", "right" and "wrong".

    Good = Acting in a way that's socially acceptable.
    Bad = Acting in a way that's socially threatening.

    As a consideration for 8's, rather than look at it in terms of "good" and "bad", why not look at it as consequences to actions. If you're fine or neutral with the consequences of your actions, then it's all moot. But if you find yourself on the defensive from consequences, then perhaps it's best to scale back on your bluntness.

    835 or 8w7 here and that's my perspective on this subject.

  7. #37
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenaphor View Post
    This thread is interesting since it appears to put 8's on the defensive. There's an element of "good" and "bad", "right" and "wrong".

    Good = Acting in a way that's socially acceptable.
    Bad = Acting in a way that's socially threatening.

    As a consideration for 8's, rather than look at it in terms of "good" and "bad", why not look at it as consequences to actions. If you're fine or neutral with the consequences of your actions, then it's all moot. But if you find yourself on the defensive from consequences, then perhaps it's best to scale back on your bluntness.

    835 or 8w7 here and that's my perspective on this subject.
    when you put it that way, it makes me think maybe I should be MORE blunt

  8. #38
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    when you put it that way, it makes me think maybe I should be MORE blunt
    Up to you, as long as you're either neutral or happy with the consequences.

  9. #39
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    I've been a bit 8ish lately. It is a situation with a very aggressive goal and timeframe at work. I'm working 100 hours a week. I find that I am reverting back to that assertiveness, needing to have control, confronting people and expanding my influence. As examples, I've done the following: 1) removed one person from my project within 3 days, 2) directly confronted the fact that another person in a leadership role wasn't working out, and 3) am encroaching on another person's responsibility where the job isn't getting done. My team is delivering but I find that I seem to be focused on expanding that. If I didn't understand what an 8 was, I don't think I'd completely understand what I'm doing and why. I'm overwhelmed by a need to assert my influence over things I'm not directly responsible for, and as an INTJ, am focusing on the big picture of how things are turning out overall. So, I'm being pretty direct, assertive, and focused on what is the best for the project overall regardless as to personal consequences. I am trying to consciously understand what I am doing and temper it.

    I'm afraid I'm coming on strong, confrontational or generally obnoxious. I confided in someone today and they seemed surprised and said they were afraid they were doing exactly the same thing. Maybe I need a bit of sleep .

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  10. #40
    meinmeinmein! mmhmm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    I've been a bit 8ish lately. It is a situation with a very aggressive goal and timeframe at work. I'm working 100 hours a week. I find that I am reverting back to that assertiveness, needing to have control, confronting people and expanding my influence. As examples, I've done the following: 1) removed one person from my project within 3 days, 2) directly confronted the fact that another person in a leadership role wasn't working out, and 3) am encroaching on another person's responsibility where the job isn't getting done. My team is delivering but I find that I seem to be focused on expanding that. If I didn't understand what an 8 was, I don't think I'd completely understand what I'm doing and why. I'm overwhelmed by a need to assert my influence over things I'm not directly responsible for, and as an INTJ, am focusing on the big picture of how things are turning out overall. So, I'm being pretty direct, assertive, and focused on what is the best for the project overall regardless as to personal consequences. I am trying to consciously understand what I am doing and temper it.

    I'm afraid I'm coming on strong, confrontational or generally obnoxious. I confided in someone today and they seemed surprised and said they were afraid they were doing exactly the same thing. Maybe I need a bit of sleep .
    i'm definitely more 8 at work than anywhere else.

    i'm fairly unapologetic about my bluntness, and i can look at a crying
    staff straight in the eye and tell them that their tears isn't helping
    their cause and only reinforces my decision. as i'm aware of what
    that bluntness contains : just facts. but most people have such a
    hard time hearing the truth when it comes to work, mix that up
    with cultural practices and fuck, there are moments where i'm thinking
    does every little thing have to be so personal with these people?

    it's business. nothing wrong with making mistakes, just own up
    and learn from it. and move on. have a little accountability.
    then perhaps the compassion would come. taking no responsibility
    in what you do doesn't deserve any understanding.
    every normal man must be tempted, at times,
    to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag,
    and begin slitting throats.
    h.l. mencken

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