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  1. #21
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Lol. That'll do it.

  2. #22
    Pumpernickel
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    and here I thought I was a thrill seeker

  3. #23
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Eyebrows View Post
    It may not be 'fair' that you have to account for their 'issue' with your spoken communication. They 'should' be able to account for their own mental biases when they process what you say. But, well, that's just how people work..
    Why should it be just about words then? Should we account for other people's mental biases when they process everything we do too?

    Also, it can be kind of arrogant to think you can spot people's mental biases just like that...I know you are an ENFP, like me, and we can be good at it, but still...

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by King-Of-Despair View Post
    This happens to me fairly often, but it's not usually because of abrassiveness, it's moreso ignorance. I find it hard to understand why people get upset about some things that seem completely emotionless to me. It's usually Fe like stuff, when this kind of thing happens, I consult someone else, and they analyse what happened, and I end up realizing that I'm never going to understand why they were upset, and then I usually just let it slide. I remember one gal that I upset simply by saying I'll go to some concert and then pulling out a moment later because it clashes with exams. It doesn't seem upsetting at all, but I asked someone else and they said that I was wrong to do that. That makes me feel pretty guilty... but wtf???
    I completely understand.

    For me, after re-entering the dating scene when my first husband died I took a few years off to mourn and re-evaluate my priorities. When men would ask me out I would always ask to go dutch on the first date. Then on the date I would lay out my expectations and what would and would not be acceptable to me. (Example don't expect to sleep with me anytime soon).

    My girlfriends thought I was insane for doing this. And several men were very upset and would call me and harass me because of my unreasonable demands.

    I would laugh and say, Look, I don't want there to be any confusion about this. It's better for you to know what kind of person I am from the beginning before all the warm fuzzy endorphins confuse things and we have to go through this nasty process of disentanglement once we've realized that we just can't live with each other!

    I saw it as cutting to the chase and being honest about what was going on. I knew that the kind of man I would want to be with would appreciate my boldness and my confidence. Why bother with the rest? Look they didn't even have to pay for my dinner, what's to complain about?

    Does this make me an 8 or just a scary ENTJ?

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sytpg View Post
    Why should it be just about words then? Should we account for other people's mental biases when they process everything we do too?
    This is all about communication. If our goal in something that we do is to effectively communicate a message to another person, then, yes, we should account for their biases.

    Also, it can be kind of arrogant to think you can spot people's mental biases just like that...I know you are an ENFP, like me, and we can be good at it, but still...
    I'm simply trying to frame the notion of 'bluntness' in a different way, one that might allow it to be tempered when necessary. This has nothing to do with what I am personally capable of, and I didn't mean to imply that it did.

    In fact, if I were to claim that I could read people so accurately, I'd be no different than those people who think that they can somehow objectively type people. And we all know how annoying they are..

    I go into conversations with the assumption that there is a huge possibility that I'm completely wrong about the other person's motivations and biases. I have to be extremely quick to correct my perceptions about other people, because it's very easy to be wrong about them.

    I did gloss over the whole 'understanding the other person' thing, which is, of course, a prerequisite for 'tailoring communication to the other person'.

    So, my statement is, in fact, an ideal. One can never completely and accurately account for the perception of another person. But, to the extent that it is possible, trying to do so makes for more effective communication.

    Communication is a two-way street, but each of us can only control our portion of it. We do, however, have complete control over our portion.

  6. #26
    Magical BlackCat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Windigo View Post
    Does this make me an 8 or just a scary ENTJ?
    Sounds pretty 8. 8's control the environment and world around them to avoid being betrayed and controlled themselves. So by laying everything out from the start, you were controlling how the relationship would go based on how you wanted it so that you wouldn't waste your time and his time. Sounds pretty 8.

    And because of this, 8 relationships are based a lot around trust. To trust their partners to not betray them. When this happens, 8's stop the control thing because they feel safe.
    () 9w8-3w4-7w6 tritype.

    sCueI (primary Inquisition)

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackCat View Post
    Sounds pretty 8. 8's control the environment and world around them to avoid being betrayed and controlled themselves. So by laying everything out from the start, you were controlling how the relationship would go based on how you wanted it so that you wouldn't waste your time and his time. Sounds pretty 8.

    And because of this, 8 relationships are based a lot around trust. To trust their partners to not betray them. When this happens, 8's stop the control thing because they feel safe.
    That makes a lot of sense to me. I don't actually LIKE being controlling. (Maybe perhaps I scored equally as a 7) I actually like to be in situations where there is an element of surprise such as traveling in Europe and finding myself in some quaint sea side village because the train to a major city that I had planned wasn't running that day.

    Some of the most pleasant moments of my life have been accidental. I like to describe my way as a trapeze artist. I want to know the framework is structurally sound and then I can trust it to do amazing feats of derring do and even surprise myself with a few forays from the routine.

    But I hate having no control or being completely blindsided by someone I thought I trusted. I think perhaps that is the most irritating thing in the world to me, to have my trust broken.

  8. #28
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Windigo View Post
    For me, after re-entering the dating scene when my first husband died I took a few years off to mourn and re-evaluate my priorities. When men would ask me out I would always ask to go dutch on the first date. Then on the date I would lay out my expectations and what would and would not be acceptable to me. (Example don't expect to sleep with me anytime soon).
    Lol, that's scary
    ENTj 7-3-8 sx/sp

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    Lol, that's scary
    I know! But it worked! I managed to find a great partner without all the emotional chaos and heart break.

    I realized I don't like the initial phase of dating when you are rocketing between the highs and lows (That's why I ride rollercoasters).I guess it's part of the 8 not being able to trust yet so I feel out of control. I find the romance of true love much more satisfying and fun.

  10. #30
    Not Your Therapist Sinmara's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackCat View Post
    And because of this, 8 relationships are based a lot around trust. To trust their partners to not betray them. When this happens, 8's stop the control thing because they feel safe.
    This has been a major theme in my life when dealing with friends and loved ones. I've always said that when I'm with someone I trust without reservation, I feel safe, and that safe feeling is very important to me. It means a lot to me that I can let my guard down and be natural. The moment someone betrays my trust, they get door-slammed, cut out of my life like the cancer they are, and nothing short of a miracle will convince me to allow them back into my good graces again. I'm not going to waste my time and energy dealing with piecing the relationship back together when I know they're just going to do it to me again. Better to appear as an unreasonable bitch than have to live my life knowing there's a fox in the hen house.

    I have been told that my expectation of loyalty makes me completely and utterly unreasonable. No one can live up to my expectations, people have told me.

    Respect me, respect yourself, stand up for me as I would stand up for you. What's so hard about that?

    I find it incredibly sad and pathetic that so many people don't want to be held to the expectation that they would be loyal to their friends and wouldn't betray them.

    It's like a punch in the gut and it makes me angry when I see someone tolerating a loved one's betrayal. Be it husband or wife, girlfriend or boyfriend, there is nothing worse than someone you've given your heart to treating you carelessly and betraying your trust. I don't understand why they'd keep the person around after they've treated them with such blatant disrespect and made such a huge breach of contract. If they think so little of you, time to kick them to the curb and start over with someone better deserving of your affections.
    Never wrestle with a pig. You will get dirty and the pig will enjoy it.



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