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  1. #11
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    Oh, yeah! If you think that the 'blunt' approach has its own set of problems, maybe this will help you make sense of it and retool it.


    Sometimes the "blunt" and "direct" approach isn't so blunt and direct after all. If the other person has mental biases that will distort your "direct" message, then you really haven't communicated in a direct manner. It is, in fact, more direct to account for their biases. It ensures that your line of thinking actually arrives at the destination as you intend it to arrive.

    Sometimes, these mental biases are thin or nonexistent--these are likely the other folks who appreciate a direct approach. Sometimes, they're thick and somewhat nebulous, vague, and hard to decipher.

    You're communicating in order to convey a message to another person, not just to spout some language. It's up to you to communicate it effectively.

    It may not be 'fair' that you have to account for their 'issue' with your spoken communication. They 'should' be able to account for their own mental biases when they process what you say. But, well, that's just how people work..

  2. #12
    full of love Kingfisher's Avatar
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    this reminds me of that quote, "only a fool looks for logic in the chambers of the human heart."

    but i can relate a lot to what you are saying, Blackcat.
    sometimes i try not to say anything at all - because it seems like very often something in what i say gets totally lost or misunderstood. it's surprising to me when it happens. i also have a lot of bad luck trying to anticipate people's reactions and modify what i am saying for them, i find that it makes the issue too confused and complex.

    but it is frustrating to me too, when i offend people.
    the hypocrisy is that when they get upset it is a turn-off to me, and so that upsets me. and then things escalate into an emotional arms war, or just a lot of yelling.

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackCat View Post
    With them I get "You could have said that differently" a lot, then I think "well why does it matter? Control your damn emotions." and I lose respect for them because of that; thus losing the motivation to try to be nice.

    There are just certain kinds of people that I can't be around because of this. People who are sensitive to any criticism are just annoying...
    that happens to me too.
    it is really hard to do sometimes, but i try to focus on my own actions and reactions, and stay cool and calm. i try to immediately let it go when people get offended, to immediately forgive people. the way i look at it is- it's not for me to decide whether their reaction was justified, all i can do is control my own reaction.

    i think every once in a while you are going to offend people, and there is no avoiding it. so i just try to conduct myself with integrity and hope for the best.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    I don't TRY to be too blunt

    I tend to speak first and then think, which can get me in some trouble with people who don't realize this trait and somehow assume that I'm out to get them

    When I REALIZE that I'm going to say something blunt (i.e. "when are you going to quit letting some bitch with a FUPA run your life... seriously, if you're not going to listen to my advice I don't see why I have to listen anymore! :rolli:") I tend to announce that it might be somewhat blunt ahead of time "sorry- this might come out a bit blunt, but it's meant in the nicest possible manner!

    People who know me rarely take offense and strangers usually get over it pretty quickly with an explanation!
    You're lucky that you get an inkling! People are usually dissolving in fits of laughter or shock before I catch a clue . . . wait, your OFFENDED? My poor INFP sister has tried to get me to be more civilized by reading Emily Post and Pride and Prejudice to me. My problem is that I just don't get offended by most things and so I forget other people do.

    Edit: Oh and I'm an 8w7 in case you haven't guessed that by now.
    Last edited by Windigo; 03-25-2010 at 12:09 AM. Reason: Oh and I'm an 8w7 in case you haven't guessed that by now. :)

  4. #14
    Senior Member Chunes's Avatar
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    This is why 9w8 makes absolutely no sense. Why are opposites right next to each other?
    "If you would convince a man that he does wrong, do right. But do not care to convince him. Men will believe what they see. Let them see."
    Thoreau

  5. #15
    Shaman BlackCat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chunes View Post
    This is why 9w8 makes absolutely no sense. Why are opposites right next to each other?
    A lot of combinations are opposites. 4w5 should make no sense, 4 totally embraces all emotions, while 5 is afraid of being overwhelmed by emotions. 6 wants security, 7 is pretty flaky and adventurous. 9w8 and 8w9 are just more blatantly opposing.
    () 9w8-3w4-7w6 tritype.

    sCueI (primary Inquisition)

  6. #16
    Shaman BlackCat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halla74 View Post
    But, it's the interpersonal relationships that are really tricky for me. One of the hardest things for me still to this day even after working on it so, so much is to listen to my wife and allow her to "be heard" without replying to her with a tactical list of things to do to solve her problems.
    Exactly. I have a really, really hard time just hearing someone out. I want to solve the problem. If they are complaining about it, and it's causing them issues, then my thought process is just to get it out of the way. That IS a huge chunk of it... you and CzeCze made me realize.

    Quote Originally Posted by CzeCze View Post
    Bingo! I think this may be one of the cruxes (yes, there can be multiple!) to your issue BlackCat. More than being annoyed you offended someone, you seem annoyed that someone would have an emotional reaction to advice or 'common sense' you try to give. Emotional and intellectual responses can be separated and co-exist (i.e. I can be very hurt or angry but still understand people's arguments) or it's a matter of time and a place. Sometimes people don't want to hear advice or have things fixed, they just want to vent so any advice given is not received well.

    In contrast, there's Mr Eyebrow's approach which is to already assume people can have an emotional reaction or take something personally or to heart so package everything beforehand with that in mind (that's more my approach as well).

    I guess your options are to try to be more mindful before you speak to people you know to be sensitive or that could react negatively to what you have to say. And to not necessarily judge their reactions as oversensitivity or weakness. I mean, truthfully, you probably could have worded yourself a little differently, right? Or perhaps it's the insinuation that you insulted someone "on purpose"?

    Maybe just prefacing what you say with "I don't mean to sound harsh and I'm not belittling you but -" and then separate their emotional response from how they take your advice.

    Honestly, I do separate the two. There are so many instances where you may agree with someone's point but not the way it was delivered. Or think someone is right but took things too far, etc. Also, people can be very turned off by what you tell them or the way you tell them but they will still take your advice to heart.
    Bingo indeed! I do seem to be intellectual about emotions a lot, the w8 numbs and disvalues a lot of emotion so I just end up analyzing them. When people want to vent, this isn't really a good thing.

    I do think that the solution will be just to hold back... but man when I can't give advice and have to restrain myself I get a lot of stress and suppressed anger that things aren't going the way that they should be. I just feel like things could be better if the situation were dealt with in the best way; and having to hold that back is annoying.

    Thanks by the way. That did solve it for me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kingfisher View Post
    this reminds me of that quote, "only a fool looks for logic in the chambers of the human heart."

    but i can relate a lot to what you are saying, Blackcat.
    sometimes i try not to say anything at all - because it seems like very often something in what i say gets totally lost or misunderstood. it's surprising to me when it happens. i also have a lot of bad luck trying to anticipate people's reactions and modify what i am saying for them, i find that it makes the issue too confused and complex.
    This, THIS is why taking Mister Eyebrow's and CzeCze's advice is difficult. I've tried it before, and it just makes it really difficult and complicated. Exactly what you said, King.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kingfisher
    but it is frustrating to me too, when i offend people.
    the hypocrisy is that when they get upset it is a turn-off to me, and so that upsets me. and then things escalate into an emotional arms war, or just a lot of yelling.
    Yes, exactly. This happens to me exactly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kingfisher
    that happens to me too.
    it is really hard to do sometimes, but i try to focus on my own actions and reactions, and stay cool and calm. i try to immediately let it go when people get offended, to immediately forgive people. the way i look at it is- it's not for me to decide whether their reaction was justified, all i can do is control my own reaction.

    i think every once in a while you are going to offend people, and there is no avoiding it. so i just try to conduct myself with integrity and hope for the best.
    Good advice, especially from a 9w8 who's much older than me!
    () 9w8-3w4-7w6 tritype.

    sCueI (primary Inquisition)

  7. #17
    Ruler of the Stars Asterion's Avatar
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    This happens to me fairly often, but it's not usually because of abrassiveness, it's moreso ignorance. I find it hard to understand why people get upset about some things that seem completely emotionless to me. It's usually Fe like stuff, when this kind of thing happens, I consult someone else, and they analyse what happened, and I end up realizing that I'm never going to understand why they were upset, and then I usually just let it slide. I remember one gal that I upset simply by saying I'll go to some concert and then pulling out a moment later because it clashes with exams. It doesn't seem upsetting at all, but I asked someone else and they said that I was wrong to do that. That makes me feel pretty guilty... but wtf???
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  8. #18
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    I didn't read this thread but if its about love for 8s then woohoo!!

  9. #19
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JustHer View Post
    I didn't read this thread but if its about love for 8s then woohoo!!
    When did you change your 7 to an 8?

  10. #20
    Pumpernickel
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    When my friends and family looked through the profiles and all simultaneously laughed at the idea that I could be anything but an 8. > : (

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