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[Type 5] INFP Type 5?

lua

New member
Joined
Dec 23, 2009
Messages
31
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
5w4
It seems so contradictory to be an INFP and a Type 5 but I *always* test as 5w4 (though my 4 and 5 scores are just about equal).

While I can relate to feelings of guilt and shame and many of the unhealthy 4 levels, I am alien to the feelings of emotional attachment (to other people) and more-so feel myself as an "outer power" (almost inhuman). Rather than feeling elite, I feel below other humans (I feel, instead, that I should serve or simply observe them).

I feed off my melancholic and ecstatic emotions ("the world is beautiful, I must sob") alike but, at a certain point, they overwhelm me and I must detach myself.

Most contradictory, perhaps, I can be either overly subjective/empathetic (e.g. with serial killers) or calm/objective in a tense situation. I guess that I should clarify that much of my empathy is rooted in my belief that everyone deserves love equally (and even if one is "bad" or "evil", I find it fascinating, which is worthy of love alone).

I will add that I'm most definitely an INFP but am pretty near T and J.

So, I've read/heard that INFPs can only be mistyped as 5. Do you think that this is true, just a general rule, what?

(Sorry for the rambling, I felt I should elaborate why I'm confused - I don't know much about the Enneagram in relation to MBTI)
 

BlackCat

Shaman
Joined
Nov 19, 2008
Messages
7,038
MBTI Type
ESFP
Enneagram
9w8
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Where did you hear this? What's your source? Just some guy on the internet that made these correlations up?

I know INFP type 5's... They exist. I'm not sure why they wouldn't exist.

5 vs 4: Fives periodically feel overwhelmed by their emotions and have to detach from them while fours are at home in their emotions and can't amplify them enough.

If you have to detach yourself that sounds about right for 5.

Also read the triad descriptions http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/enneagram/25141-triad-definitions.html

And these type descriptions-

http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/enneagram/24961-type-five.html
http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/enneagram/24960-type-four.html
 

compulsiverambler

New member
Joined
Sep 15, 2009
Messages
446
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
Fi-doms respond primarily with judgment of the subjective quality of what they're experiencing. Being a Five as well just means that you'll seek to understand everything objectively, so you'll try to detach and objectively analyse your subjective Fi reactions to make sure they're 'right' and reliable, and for the sake of understanding something.

I thought I was a Four because I think about my emotional reactions a lot and am interested in emotional subject matter, but I don't think about my feelings for the same reasons or in the same way that Fours do.

For one thing, I'm not primarily preoccupied with my own worth. Although like most people who have them, I have been during depressive episodes and therefore have strong memories of thinking like an unhappy Four and a strong aversion to ever feeling that way again, the rest of the time I'm far more concerned about my security (thinking triad) than my worth (feeling triad), and in fact during most depressive episodes as well this has remained the case.

I also relate more to the typical Five here and in fleshspace than I do to the Fours. I'm more sensitive in both the good and bad sense, and lean somewhat more towards analysing more human issues in depth than purely technical ones like mechanics or chemistry, due to Fi, but other than that I feel more similar to them.

I do think that E-Five INFPs are probably relatively uncommon forms of each camp and so won't fit the non-defining stereotypes of them as much. If you don't feel quite at home somehow, identifying with either most FPs or Fives that you know despite having the defining characteristics of the types, I think it's more likely you're both.
 

lua

New member
Joined
Dec 23, 2009
Messages
31
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
5w4
Where did you hear this? What's your source? Just some guy on the internet that made these correlations up?

I know INFP type 5's... They exist. I'm not sure why they wouldn't exist.

5 vs 4: Fives periodically feel overwhelmed by their emotions and have to detach from them while fours are at home in their emotions and can't amplify them enough.

If you have to detach yourself that sounds about right for 5.

Also read the triad descriptions http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/enneagram/25141-triad-definitions.html

And these type descriptions-

http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/enneagram/24961-type-five.html
http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/enneagram/24960-type-four.html

More just like LOTS of guys on the internet that made these correlations up (and since I was/am not an Enneagram expert I came here to ask you guys ;)). Yeah, I'm definitely a 5w4.

Thanks for the triad descriptions, btw!

Fi-doms respond primarily with judgment of the subjective quality of what they're experiencing. Being a Five as well just means that you'll seek to understand everything objectively, so you'll try to detach and objectively analyse your subjective Fi reactions to make sure they're 'right' and reliable, and for the sake of understanding something.

I thought I was a Four because I think about my emotional reactions a lot and am interested in emotional subject matter, but I don't think about my feelings for the same reasons or in the same way that Fours do.

For one thing, I'm not primarily preoccupied with my own worth. Although like most people who have them, I have been during depressive episodes and therefore have strong memories of thinking like an unhappy Four and a strong aversion to ever feeling that way again, the rest of the time I'm far more concerned about my security (thinking triad) than my worth (feeling triad), and in fact during most depressive episodes as well this has remained the case.

I also relate more to the typical Five here and in fleshspace than I do to the Fours. I'm more sensitive in both the good and bad sense, and lean somewhat more towards analysing more human issues in depth than purely technical ones like mechanics or chemistry, due to Fi, but other than that I feel more similar to them.

I do think that E-Five INFPs are probably relatively uncommon forms of each camp and so won't fit the non-defining stereotypes of them as much. If you don't feel quite at home somehow, identifying with either most FPs or Fives that you know despite having the defining characteristics of the types, I think it's more likely you're both.

This I can completely identify with. Thank you for stating it much more eloquently than I probably could :D I especially relate to detaching to analyze emotions (for the sake of understanding).

Maybe this is why I like the INTPs so much :newwink:
 

neptunesnet

man-made
Joined
Sep 5, 2009
Messages
1,228
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
5&4
Instinctual Variant
sx
5 vs 4: Fives periodically feel overwhelmed by their emotions and have to detach from them while fours are at home in their emotions and can't amplify them enough.

If you have to detach yourself that sounds about right for 5.

Yeah, BlackCat is right.

Fives tend to detach from their feelings when they feel overwhelmed by them.

Another comparsion I've read between 4w5 INFPs and 5w4 INFPs is that 4w5s tend to take romantic elements and give them darkness (i.e, Tim Burton films) whereas 5w4s just romanticize sadness and adversity. Slight differences, but they're important.


Also, I, too, tend to have a soft spot for INTPs. Can't help it. :nerd:
 

One Day

New member
Joined
Mar 30, 2009
Messages
212
MBTI Type
INfP
Enneagram
5w4
I recall seeing a page with a description of INFP 5w4's (well I think it was for INFP). It looked like it was written in a text document or something but I can't remember the URL. Does anyone know what I'm talking about? It was posted on INFPgc a while ago before the forum shut down.
 

Seymour

Vaguely Precise
Joined
Sep 22, 2009
Messages
1,579
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
I agree that INFPs can be type 5s, and I think I'm one of them. I think that one of the uses of Fi is awareness of and ability to modify one's own emotional state.

I think that a type 4 INFPs uses Fi to amp up emotional responses, but a type 5 INFP uses Fi to amp it down. Also, a type 5 INFP is more likely to intellectualize and rationalize feelings in order to feel distance from and control of them. Because it's still primarily Fi, it's going to be more subjective and values-informed than an INTP doing the same thing, but it's a similar process.

Also, I don't see the INFP tendency to withdraw from conflict as clashing with the nature of type 5. Our reticence and need to understand fully before presenting things fits well, too.

I can see that it wouldn't the most common typical type for INFPs, though. It certainly doesn't fit with the "whiny emo" stereotype, though.
 

compulsiverambler

New member
Joined
Sep 15, 2009
Messages
446
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
Another comparsion I've read between 4w5 INFPs and 5w4 INFPs is that 4w5s tend to take romantic elements and give them darkness (i.e, Tim Burton films) whereas 5w4s just romanticize sadness and adversity. Slight differences, but they're important.
That's interesting, romanticising sadness was one of the things that made me think I might be a Four. I don't daydream about myself however or have a 'fantasy self' as Fours do. My impulse is to daydream and have dark fantasies to process my feelings in a vicarious, escapist way that saves me the bother of being bombarded by an unstoppable stream of worrying thoughts about my own situation. It's really a way of avoiding thinking about how to solve my problems while also avoiding the strain of suppressing or denying the emotions they're causing, which would make those thoughts break through. An ingeniusly dysfunctional solution. :D
 

neptunesnet

man-made
Joined
Sep 5, 2009
Messages
1,228
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
5&4
Instinctual Variant
sx
My impulse is to daydream and have dark fantasies to process my feelings in a vicarious, escapist way that saves me the bother of being bombarded by an unstoppable stream of worrying thoughts about my own situation. It's really a way of avoiding thinking about how to solve my problems while also avoiding the strain of suppressing or denying the emotions they're causing. Ingenius really.

Wow, I basically do the exact same thing to myself.

:D

Lately, I've been wondering if you can have a balanced enneagram. Like, sometimes I feel like a four and other days definitely a five. I can't really separate myself from either of them so easily.
 

lua

New member
Joined
Dec 23, 2009
Messages
31
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
5w4
That's interesting, romanticising sadness was one of the things that made me think I might be a Four. I don't daydream about myself however or have a 'fantasy self' as Fours do. My impulse is to daydream and have dark fantasies to process my feelings in a vicarious, escapist way that saves me the bother of being bombarded by an unstoppable stream of worrying thoughts about my own situation. It's really a way of avoiding thinking about how to solve my problems while also avoiding the strain of suppressing or denying the emotions they're causing, which would make those thoughts break through. An ingeniusly dysfunctional solution. :D

Wow, I basically do the exact same thing to myself.

:D

Lately, I've been wondering if you can have a balanced enneagram. Like, sometimes I feel like a four and other days definitely a five. I can't really separate myself from either of them so easily.

Haha, also guilty of doing that exact same thing. The ultimate avoidance. :D If only it were an Olympic sport...

I think lots of people test differently on their Enneagram depending on their mood/status, but if I'd type anything other than 5w4 it would be another in my tritype: 5,4,9. Don't we use all three, just one more-so than the others?

Enneagram Tritypes
 

compulsiverambler

New member
Joined
Sep 15, 2009
Messages
446
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
Wow, I basically do the exact same thing to myself.

:D

Lately, I've been wondering if you can have a balanced enneagram. Like, sometimes I feel like a four and other days definitely a five. I can't really separate myself from either of them so easily.
Enneagram authors deny this happens but I don't see why. The reason the Four is positioned next to the Five on the Enneagram is that they're both withdrawing types, and (unlike the Nine, the other withdrawing type) both direct their fundamental compulsion primarily inwards instead of primarily outwards or a lot of both, and therefore find each other's behaviours relatively easy to slip into. If the personality develops around the Basic Fear, and everyone experiences all nine Basic Fears to some extent, why should everyone have one fear that's more significant than all the others and develop one resulting set of defences and one self-image that is more significant than all the others? Why not straddle two adjacent types? Maybe they suppose it wouldn't be as efficient or smooth-running as a mind that's devoted most of its energy towards forming one dominant personality structure.
 

neptunesnet

man-made
Joined
Sep 5, 2009
Messages
1,228
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
5&4
Instinctual Variant
sx
...if I'd type anything other than 5w4 it would be another in my tritype: 5,4,9. Don't we use all three, just one more-so than the others?

Enneagram Tritypes

That makes sense.

I'm supposing the Heart and the Head would be more at war for the INFP than the Gut.


Enneagram authors deny this happens but I don't see why. The reason the Four is positioned next to the Five on the Enneagram is that they're both withdrawing types, and (unlike the Nine, the other withdrawing type) both direct their fundamental compulsion primarily inwards instead of primarily outwards or a lot of both, and therefore find each other's behaviours relatively easy to slip into.

Yeah, I agree with you.

If the personality develops around the Basic Fear, and everyone experiences all nine Basic Fears to some extent, why should everyone have one fear that's more significant than all the others and develop one resulting set of defences and one self-image that is more significant than all the others? Why not straddle two adjacent types? Maybe they suppose it wouldn't be as efficient or smooth-running as a mind that's devoted most of its energy towards forming one dominant personality structure.

That seems kinda linear to me and one-dimensional in regards to personality.

But then again, what do I know?

:(
 

compulsiverambler

New member
Joined
Sep 15, 2009
Messages
446
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
Haha, also guilty of doing that exact same thing. The ultimate avoidance. :D If only it were an Olympic sport...

I think lots of people test differently on their Enneagram depending on their mood/status, but if I'd type anything other than 5w4 it would be another in my tritype: 5,4,9. Don't we use all three, just one more-so than the others?

Enneagram Tritypes
Yes, according to that model, there's one dominant type and two less powerful types for each of the other Centres. Having a dominant way of dealing with the problems of all three Centres makes sense to me. The difference between wing theory and tri-type theory seems to be that wing proponents think that one of the two types you're most similar to by certain measures has the most impact on your personality while the tri-type proponents think that with the Basic Fear dealt with, the most important influence will be the strategies developed for dealing with the problems of the other two Centres. I think it might vary from person to person and that maybe the two can be combined (as BlackCat does in his signature). All I know is, after Five, I behave somewhat like a Four, somewhat like a Nine, somewhat like a Three, somewhat like a One, and I'm not self-aware enough to know in exactly what order. :thinking:
 

compulsiverambler

New member
Joined
Sep 15, 2009
Messages
446
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
That seems kinda linear to me and one-dimensional in regards to personality.

But then again, what do I know?

:(
Don't worry, if the Enneagram system helps you understand yourself and your experiences, it doesn't matter if you don't agree with everything the authors say. I don't, but I still get a lot out of it. :)
 

CrystalViolet

lab rat extraordinaire
Joined
Oct 24, 2008
Messages
2,152
MBTI Type
XNFP
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
I'm a 5w4 INFP too. They are around.
 

OrangeAppled

Sugar Hiccup
Joined
Mar 20, 2009
Messages
7,626
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
4w5
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
Yeah, BlackCat is right.

Fives tend to detach from their feelings when they feel overwhelmed by them.

Another comparsion I've read between 4w5 INFPs and 5w4 INFPs is that 4w5s tend to take romantic elements and give them darkness (i.e, Tim Burton films) whereas 5w4s just romanticize sadness and adversity. Slight differences, but they're important.


Also, I, too, tend to have a soft spot for INTPs. Can't help it. :nerd:

I agree that INFPs can be type 5s, and I think I'm one of them. I think that one of the uses of Fi is awareness of and ability to modify one's own emotional state.

I think that a type 4 INFPs uses Fi to amp up emotional responses, but a type 5 INFP uses Fi to amp it down. Also, a type 5 INFP is more likely to intellectualize and rationalize feelings in order to feel distance from and control of them. Because it's still primarily Fi, it's going to be more subjective and values-informed than an INTP doing the same thing, but it's a similar process.

Also, I don't see the INFP tendency to withdraw from conflict as clashing with the nature of type 5. Our reticence and need to understand fully before presenting things fits well, too.

I can see that it wouldn't the most common typical type for INFPs, though. It certainly doesn't fit with the "whiny emo" stereotype, though.

I relate to both of these posts...I test 5 almost as much as I test 4, or I test equal scores for them. I relate to both a lot & more than any of the other types, but admittedly I like the 4 profiles more because they feel so romantically tragic. I think I sometimes have an idea of how I'd like to be and latch onto that over what I really am - idealism clouding my perspective. This makes me consider 5w4 for myself (uh oh! Another INFP personality crisis!!!), especially since I test INTP so much (but no way in hell am I INTP :D ).
 
Joined
Jul 3, 2008
Messages
1,858
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
54
Instinctual Variant
so/sp
No, I'm a 5, straight and true to the bone.

Tim Burton is listed as a 5 on one of those sites that turns up at the top of the google searches. Is that not true?
 

antireconciler

it's a nuclear device
Joined
Apr 29, 2007
Messages
866
MBTI Type
Intj
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
so
I'm a 5w4 INFP too. They are around.

Same here, although I could pass as a 1w9.

Yes, according to that model, there's one dominant type and two less powerful types for each of the other Centres. Having a dominant way of dealing with the problems of all three Centres makes sense to me. The difference between wing theory and tri-type theory seems to be that wing proponents think that one of the two types you're most similar to by certain measures has the most impact on your personality while the tri-type proponents think that with the Basic Fear dealt with, the most important influence will be the strategies developed for dealing with the problems of the other two Centres. I think it might vary from person to person and that maybe the two can be combined (as BlackCat does in his signature). All I know is, after Five, I behave somewhat like a Four, somewhat like a Nine, somewhat like a Three, somewhat like a One, and I'm not self-aware enough to know in exactly what order. :thinking:

I'd never heard of tri-types. Thanks for sharing. :]
 

Flutterby

New member
Joined
May 27, 2010
Messages
36
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
5
I'm also an INFP type 5 with a 4 wing.
I used to be a type 4 with a 5 wing but I gradually changed.
I've also noticed that at different times of my life I identified more strongly with other types. Like when I was teenager I was a type 1. After that I was a 9 for a few years.
I think I just take on whatever type helps me cope best with whatever challenges I have at that point in time, but I don't do it consciously, it's more of a subconscious thing.
 
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