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Thread: INTP 4

  1. #1
    Senior Member run's Avatar
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    Default INTP 4

    I'm really lonely and I'm tired of it. What are your ways of getting around it? I can't figure out if I'm just really introverted or too self-conscious, or if its ADD or what, but I can't seem to figure out social situations. I tend to blurt things out and wear my heart on my sleeve. I crave interaction but I have no energy for people and their ways. Is anyone else really confused with these emotions we're apparently supposed to know about as fours? What's your policy? How do you approach socializing? Reading people is just about impossible.

  2. #2
    Feelin' FiNe speculative's Avatar
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    I think there's a common misconception that having strong emotions automatically makes one skilled at relationships.

    The Enneagram is different than the MBTI (thankfully!), so it might help you to use the levels of health to understand how you can improve your relationships. Any type in an average or unhealthy state will not interact well with people. (Although depending on which culture you're in, it may appear that certain types who are unhealthy are interacting better than certain other types who are unhealthy, since certain types will be more likely to display traits that may be accepted in different cultures.) It is when the types move into their healthy states that healthy relationships can flower and grow.
    "How can I be, all I want to be,
    When all I want to do is strip away these stilled constraints
    And crush this charade, shred this sad, masquerade"
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGeq5v7L3WM

  3. #3
    Mud and rain and chaos... TickTock's Avatar
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    To your msconception Speculative I would say in reality it's the complete reverse.

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    Senior Member Heinel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by speculative View Post
    I think there's a common misconception that having strong emotions automatically makes one skilled at relationships.

    The Enneagram is different than the MBTI (thankfully!), so it might help you to use the levels of health to understand how you can improve your relationships. Any type in an average or unhealthy state will not interact well with people. (Although depending on which culture you're in, it may appear that certain types who are unhealthy are interacting better than certain other types who are unhealthy, since certain types will be more likely to display traits that may be accepted in different cultures.) It is when the types move into their healthy states that healthy relationships can flower and grow.
    I kind of see a vicious cycle there for 4s who are not good at relationships.
    Check out my blog: http://OrnateRitual.com

  5. #5
    Head Pigeon Mad Hatter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by speculative View Post
    I think there's a common misconception that having strong emotions automatically makes one skilled at relationships.
    I agree, especially to the "automatically".
    Regarding the whole field of relationships: Unless you can make the other person aware of your feelings, it is almost the same as if they don't exist - or it requires an awful lot of guesswork. Having certain feelings and the ability to communicate them are two totally different things.
    In fact, I believe that a lot of people who experience strong emotions can be so overwhelmed at times that they don't know where to start.

    Quote Originally Posted by speculative View Post
    Any type in an average or unhealthy state will not interact well with people.
    I disagree - both to the "any type" and to the "average".
    I think an average (which I understand as "healthy") person probably does reasonably well in most situations, though some types are better at interacting with other people.
    Could you elaborate on what you had in mind here?

    Quote Originally Posted by Heinel View Post
    I kind of see a vicious cycle there for 4s who are not good at relationships.
    As far as 4w5s are concerned, that is a definite possibility.
    IN SERIO FATVITAS.

    -τὸ γὰρ γράμμα ἀποκτέννει, τὸ δὲ πνεῦμα ζῳοποιεῖ-

  6. #6
    See Right Through Me Bubbles's Avatar
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    Here's what's strange about 4s: they aren't exactly good at handling emotions. Rather, they go about their emotions in a full blown blast of expression, feeling the highs and lows of the emotion before finally letting it go. We're masochists, imho.

    I notice in dealing with my 5w4, my response to his problems is always to encourage him to let out more feeling...when in actuality, all he wants is something to focus on so that the emotions don't cloud his sight too much. (That's completely foreign to me, I'm trying so hard to understand it. ) You strike me, run, as being 4w5, as most 4 INTPs are. So since wings that are so opposite (4s being Heart and 5s being Thinking) tend to fight for dominance over a person, your "low energy" comment makes me think the 5 side of you just doesn't want to deal with all this emotional anxiety. Of course, being a 4, your desire to express those feelings will win out.

    So what am I saying here? Hell if I know, just analyzing. But here are my suggestions.

    1) Find situations to see people in which your energy is best distributed. If you're in a place that requires a lot of stress from you, you're not using your energy properly. And of course you'll shortage out and not be at your best social performance. Which is bad for you. So find a place where you're comfortable and relaxed, maybe a place where YOU, personally, shine.

    2) Be picky about who you waste this energy on. If a person strikes you as uninteresting, someone you wouldn't like, someone who intimidates you, etc, don't invest in it. You may not be able to read other people's emotions, but read yours and see whether you genuinely care about befriending this person. Obvious, eh? But worth stating.

    3) Have something in common with people. This greatly ties in with #1. I'm going to be stereotypical and say as a 4, I love going to writing conferences and art shows. I find people who have the same obscure artsy interests as me and I'm in total bliss. I turn into a social, giggly, rambling person who can't stop smiling. And why? Because these people know exactly how I feel about what I love.

    I also think you may have trouble due to your variants. You don't sound very sx/so, or so/sx. Those types are stereotypically the best at working with social settings. I hope it works out for you, though!
    4w3, IEI, so/sx/sp, female, and Cancer sign.

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  7. #7
    Feelin' FiNe speculative's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Avis View Post
    I disagree - both to the "any type" and to the "average".
    I think an average (which I understand as "healthy") person probably does reasonably well in most situations, though some types are better at interacting with other people.
    Could you elaborate on what you had in mind here?
    I had in mind getting away with sloppy Fi analyis.

    Actually, I originally used the word "optimally" instead of "well." Since I did use well though, I agree you're right about people being able to relate in a normal day-to-day way in the average levels of health.

    It seems like any type in an unhealthy stage would have trouble relating by the definition of what an unhealthy stage is?
    "How can I be, all I want to be,
    When all I want to do is strip away these stilled constraints
    And crush this charade, shred this sad, masquerade"
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGeq5v7L3WM

  8. #8
    Senior Member the state i am in's Avatar
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    what is the relationship between e4 and letting all your Ne hang out all loose and sloppy and still wearing sweatpants in the morning like enfp 7s?

    my tentative theory is the more Ne that gets out, the more you can kind of sense what the person means, they just have a more present, palpable letting out of their vision, their ideas, their inspirations, their excitements, their feelings, etc.

    i knew an infp 4w5 girl who seemed very self-contained, hard-edged, and sassy. her first tendency was to avoid direct interactions, her second was to get all judgy high-horse. somehow we started inventing stories about things and people around us, and immediately it dawned on me how great her Ne was. situated within 4w5 critical cultural rigor, etc. it was awesome. she became easy to know, altho i'm sure that the Ne that was a solution for me was an antagonist for others, who thought she was just crazy.

    i'm also seeing that Ne doesn't necessarily let feelings out, bc infps still have a lot held closely to their chest, are still editing their shit very aggressively, still censoring the situation. the more merged and imaginative it is tho, the more you show yourself. there are differences for me as an Ni Fe that i can't wrap my head around, but in almost all cases, without the e function you won't communicate or express. merging can be relaxing and energizing at the same time, it can put so many of your worries, insecurities, embarrassments, and anxieties to rest. the e7s turn this shit into a science. very off-shore holding account, sneaky sneaky.

    i think a key for me in the process with infp 4w5s is letting them show you their judgiest and that you, rather than wanting to curb it, like it. that you find it funny, but also accurate, that you enjoy their values and can in some ways identify strongly as well. that you SEE it. i'm not going to feel it in the same way, but as an Fe user i feel like i can experience the implications, the way that it can be contextualized and recognize, to some degree, how it works, why it's important, and why/how it relates back to the whole, the overall, the big picture, the self, etc. i think this is all strangely relevant for intps too, just in ways i do not yet understand or have mapped out. this, holy shit i love your Ti judgments! kind of sense. look at all the things that can be done with them! my god!

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