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  1. #1
    Senior Member run's Avatar
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    Default 4 and envy: Breaking the cycle

    Are you a 4? Do you think that you suck? I think that I suck, and I'm tired of sucking. I'm tired of sucking more than other people and I'm tired of envy. I'm tired of my ideal of intrinsic worthiness that doesn't get me results.

    It seems there's a vicious cycle: We feel envious, it debilitates us from achieving, and then we feel envious again. Or maybe envy will always be there, regardless of our talents.

    How do we get through life knowing we can't offer as much as some people can? How do we live without really earning something? What does it take to earn or accomplish something? Is it effort? No. Perfection? No. Then what is it? Does anyone really accomplish anything? Is anyone as confused as I am?

  2. #2
    Reptilian Snuggletron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by run View Post
    Are you a 4? Do you think that you suck? I think that I suck, and I'm tired of sucking. I'm tired of sucking more than other people and I'm tired of envy. I'm tired of my ideal of intrinsic worthiness that doesn't get me results.

    It seems there's a vicious cycle: We feel envious, it debilitates us from achieving, and then we feel envious again. Or maybe envy will always be there, regardless of our talents.

    How do we get through life knowing we can't offer as much as some people can? How do we live without really earning something? What does it take to earn or accomplish something? Is it effort? No. Perfection? No. Then what is it? Does anyone really accomplish anything? Is anyone as confused as I am?
    I am a 4w5 with an undeniable history of secretive envy. I do not deny having envy. I don't think anyone can at some point in their life. Someone here posted an important video on 'status anxiety' by Alain de Botton and it explains how a good deal of envy ties into living in democratic nations where people aren't bound by social classes and can achieve anything (supposedly) if they put in the effort. The result is, high expectations and low self-esteem/envy when we cannot meet those expectations we set for ourselves. When our peers and people close to us do better than us we compare ourselves which can lead to the one who wasn't so fortunate to feel bad about themselves.

    I have found some sources to my envy, I don't know how they will compare to other peoples but I hope they'll share them as well.

    1. Uncertainty/Aimlessness. I do not know what I want to do in the future. This presents the issue of not having a goal and obviously not having ways of reaching a goal. I've done this quite my whole life, and it was one of the reasons I felt down right before high school graduation, people I knew were going off to these 4 year schools and I hadn't a clue what I was doing (big (-) Perceiver trait).
    2. Inexperience. Putting off doing things due to uncertainty has led to my inexperience in things involving education/career/relationships.
    3. Doubt. Probably caused by inexperience^.
    4. 'Playing Fields'/things like social networking sites. I can see where everyone is going and has gone but not where I am going, it can get scary.

    So I'd say, root cause for me is uncertainty, which leads to doubt and wonder how other people seem to know how to squeeze what they want out of life. Which leads to lolly-gagging and eventually shooting myself in the foot while other people have a huge head start.

    I'm just wondering if anyone here -regardless of type- can come to a similar conclusion as to the reason they have envy.

  3. #3
    Uniqueorn William K's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by run View Post
    How do we get through life knowing we can't offer as much as some people can?
    Turn the chessboard around. You may not be as good at some things as other people, but you will be much better at some other things. We all have negatives and positives. Find what you are good at, there will be something, and work on being the best you can be in that. Make other people envious of you instead. Let them come to you for advise or help.

    If you really don't know what you are good at, talk to your family and friends. Ask them flat out what they appreciate about you. And tell them that you need to know whenever you've done something good for them. Lots of positive feedback helps. It's all about self-confidence and self-worth.

    And don't pay too much attention as to how society measures success. It is possible to make your way through life happy and content in your own way. If you're a 4w5, you would want to be true to yourself anyway instead of bowing to the conventions.
    4w5, Fi>Ne>Ti>Si>Ni>Fe>Te>Se, sp > so > sx

    appreciates being appreciated, conflicted over conflicts, afraid of being afraid, bad at being bad, predictably unpredictable, consistently inconsistent, remarkably unremarkable...

    I may not agree with what you are feeling, but I will defend to death your right to have a good cry over it

    The whole problem with the world is that fools & fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts. ~ Bertrand Russell

  4. #4
    Senior Member run's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by William K View Post
    And don't pay too much attention as to how society measures success. It is possible to make your way through life happy and content in your own way. If you're a 4w5, you would want to be true to yourself anyway instead of bowing to the conventions.
    Hm this is what I have a hard time with. If I did what I wanted, I wouldn't have any discipline right?

  5. #5
    Uniqueorn William K's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by run View Post
    Hm this is what I have a hard time with. If I did what I wanted, I wouldn't have any discipline right?
    What exactly do you mean by discipline? The military type? And what exactly does it have to do with your happiness?

    I'm certainly not advocating breaking any laws just because you enjoy the thrill of it
    4w5, Fi>Ne>Ti>Si>Ni>Fe>Te>Se, sp > so > sx

    appreciates being appreciated, conflicted over conflicts, afraid of being afraid, bad at being bad, predictably unpredictable, consistently inconsistent, remarkably unremarkable...

    I may not agree with what you are feeling, but I will defend to death your right to have a good cry over it

    The whole problem with the world is that fools & fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts. ~ Bertrand Russell

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