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  1. #51
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Viridian View Post
    Doesn't the Myers-Briggs institute have pages about cognitive functions and function order, though?
    The MBTI websites and type descriptions have been subverted by JCF. That's why I have to get mine from an older book. It's nice to have been around long enough to see the changes happen. If you're under 30 or so, then JCF related MBTI topics is all you'll know.

    The fact is that MBTI type is still being determined with tests on a spectrum consisting of a 4x2 letter system. Otherwise, Artemistry wouldn't be here talking about the spectrum in the scoring system.

    Yet I would recommend taking a cognitive functions test in order to compare the results with an MBTI test. The cognitive functions tests draw out a little more detail about one's personality. The problem is they assume that the test score can determine MBTI type. My experience tells me that it probably will, but not necessarily.
    "There seems to be a deep instinct in human beings to make compulsory that which isn't forbidden."

  2. #52
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    ENTJ/enneagram 4 doesn't seem like it would work, either.

  3. #53
    Senior Member Viridian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoftRains View Post
    ENTJ/enneagram 4 doesn't seem like it would work, either.
    I've seen Patrick Stewart pegged as one somewhere.
    Tentative typing: ISFJ 6w5 or 9w1 (Sp/S[?]).

  4. #54
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Viridian View Post
    I've seen Patrick Stewart pegged as one somewhere.
    At different sites he is pegged as ENTJ or type 4.

    People sure seem to have a hard time with the MBTI. Must be all that Jungian function crap clogging up our concepts.
    "There seems to be a deep instinct in human beings to make compulsory that which isn't forbidden."

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    PS: I like to collect and observe rare enneagram/MBTI combinations. if you are indeed an INFP 8, I'm interested
    PPS: do you know your wing and instinct variant?
    Well, I believe, based on taking the MBTI test several times (and coming out with an INFP score) and also being pegged by someone who's an Enneagram expert as an Eight (and, of course identifying with that one the most, along with taking a simple online test), that I am an INFP Eight. Obviously, many people believe this to be an impossibility. I don't know what to say, or what kind of information I can offer to further convince someone who's closed off to the possibility; it's a waste of time and energy for me, as I'm not interested in converting anyone, but rather interested in self-knowledge growth of understanding to aid in my personal development.

    I know that I'm self-preservation Eight, with a strong sexual/one-to-one second, social being the lowest scoring and I vacillate between which wing I am, since I seem to have a little bit of both qualities. Sometimes I think Seven, sometimes I think Nine. I actually find my connections between points Two and Five to be stronger (but identifying with Five a bit more than Two, although I was brought up in an environment that highly valued Two qualities).

  6. #56
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    ok, well...ESTJ and 4 then

  7. #57
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Artemistry View Post
    Well, I believe, based on taking the MBTI test several times (and coming out with an INFP score) and also being pegged by someone who's an Enneagram expert as an Eight (and, of course identifying with that one the most, along with taking a simple online test), that I am an INFP Eight. Obviously, many people believe this to be an impossibility. I don't know what to say, or what kind of information I can offer to further convince someone who's closed off to the possibility; it's a waste of time and energy for me, as I'm not interested in converting anyone, but rather interested in self-knowledge growth of understanding to aid in my personal development.
    I know that I'm self-preservation Eight, with a strong sexual/one-to-one second, social being the lowest scoring and I vacillate between which wing I am, since I seem to have a little bit of both qualities. Sometimes I think Seven, sometimes I think Nine. I actually find my connections between points Two and Five to be stronger (but identifying with Five a bit more than Two, although I was brought up in an environment that highly valued Two qualities).
    just out of curiosity, how well do you relate to these quotes?
    Naranjo, in Character and Neurosis:

    Ennea-Type VIII: "Sadistic Character and Lust"
    Lust is.. a kinship to indolence... an attempt to compensate for a hidden lack of aliveness.


    "Anti social personality disorder"
    "phallic narcissistic"
    disobedient and defiant
    "moral anesthesia"

    ... guiltlessness, incapacity of object love, impulsivity, emotional shallowness

    concealed sadistic characteristics

    exploitative orientation

    "does not expect to receive things from others as gifts, but to take them away from others by force or cunning"

    He describes the most unhealthy 8s as anti-social personalities:
    hostile affectivity, assertive self-image, interpersonal vindictiveness, malevolent projection...

    "the need for vindictive triumph"

    "He is convinced that everyone at the bottom is malevolent and crooked, that friendly gestures are hypocritical... regard everyone with distrust"

    He quotes Horney on a "lusty person" (8):

    "He is openly arrogant, often rude and offensive, although sometime this is covered with a thin veneer of civil politeness. In subtle and gross ways with or without realizing it, he humiliates others and exploits them. He may use women for the satisfaction of his sexual needs with utter disregard for their feelings....uses people as a means to an end......maintains contacts exclusively on the basis of their serving his needs for triumph....as stepping stones in his career....utter disregard of others' needs...

    contemptuous disregard for others...intimidating others into a subdued appeasement...

    "This absence of sympathy has many causes, lying in his hostility towards others and in his lacking sympathy for himself. But what contributes most to his callousness toward others is the envy of them. It is a bitter envy --not for this for that particular asset, but pervasive--and stems from his feeling excluded from life in general....
    lust may be seen as repressed envy


    Now in Naranjo's own description of type 8:

    The revenge which is present in ennea-type VIII is a long term one... in response to the pain, humiliation and impotence felt in early childhood.

    "a manifestation of vindictive punitiveness"

    "power seeking", "putting others down", "disdain and scorn for others"

    Their seductiveness, bragging, and arrogant claims are consciously manipulative; they are geared to gaining influence and elevation in the power and dominance hierarchy.

    ...to compensate for feelings of guilt, shame and worthlessness evoked by his disregard of others the individual has engaged in a process of guilt denial...

    ... ennea-type VIII character fails to constitute full humanness..

    ...lust, in its impetuous grasping of the tangible, entails an impoverishment of tender qualities and subtlety which results in a loss of wholeness...this reaching, substituted for being, leaves him forever dissatisfied, craving intensity.
    ENFP: We put the Fi in Fire
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    Motivation: Dark Worker
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    Male Archtype: King/Lover
    Sunburst!
    "You are a gay version of Gambit" Speed Gavroche
    "I wish that I could be affected by any hate, but I can't, cuz I just get affected by the bank" Chamillionaire

  8. #58
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    Not much because I'm not as unhealthy as all that. However, I was considered disobedient and defiant as a child (I got my mouth washed out with soap for talking back; slapped for asking questions). I also went to summary courts martial in the US Navy for losing my temper at my supervisor and yelling at him. I have at times, feel some scorn or disdain for others, and often don't apologize when others think it's necessary - I often don't feel guilt where others might. I also dislike apologies from others - my view is that they are manipulative ways to get off the hook; the person ought to learn and not do it again, and strive to make right what they effed up. I like to be in control; I like to be in charge.

    I'd like to think that the decade of inner work (therapy, self-education in psychology and spirituality, work with a spiritual teacher, meditation, etc) has moved me more toward a healthier Eight - and now that I know more about the Enneagram, I can pinpoint those areas that are in need of more work. To me, that purpose of the Enneagram is to facilitate personal growth, not put someone in a box, where they stay chained, their type being an excuse for why they are the way they are. I see all ultimately healthy types as containing the healthy qualities of all types.

  9. #59
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Artemistry View Post
    Not much because I'm not as unhealthy as all that. However, I was considered disobedient and defiant as a child (I got my mouth washed out with soap for talking back; slapped for asking questions). I also went to summary courts martial in the US Navy for losing my temper at my supervisor and yelling at him. I have at times, feel some scorn or disdain for others, and often don't apologize when others think it's necessary - I often don't feel guilt where others might. I also dislike apologies from others - my view is that they are manipulative ways to get off the hook; the person ought to learn and not do it again, and strive to make right what they effed up. I like to be in control; I like to be in charge.

    I'd like to think that the decade of inner work (therapy, self-education in psychology and spirituality, work with a spiritual teacher, meditation, etc) has moved me more toward a healthier Eight - and now that I know more about the Enneagram, I can pinpoint those areas that are in need of more work. To me, that purpose of the Enneagram is to facilitate personal growth, not put someone in a box, where they stay chained, their type being an excuse for why they are the way they are. I see all ultimately healthy types as containing the healthy qualities of all types.
    You have 8 traits busting out all over, with an INFP desire for self-discovery and self-improvement.
    "There seems to be a deep instinct in human beings to make compulsory that which isn't forbidden."

  10. #60
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    Yep. That's why I deny (defy? ) the statement that it's impossible to be and Eight and an INFP. Perhaps rare, but not impossible. Otherwise, I don't really exist...hmmm...maybe I don't...

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