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Thread: An INFP with an enneagram 8?

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    great at parties Array boomslang's Avatar
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    sx variant 4 would probably come across as 8-like to some extent.

    I think the main types that you'd expect to see as 8s are

    ESTJ, ENTJ, ESTP, ESFP, ISFP, ISTP.

    I generally associate it with Te and Se.

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    Tier 1 Member Array LunaLuminosity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pinkgraffiti View Post
    Not an expert, but I wanna give my opinion
    Because (if I'm not mistaken) being an 8 is about being rational and not accepting bullshit. The sort of things I'd associate with Te. The intricate feelings of Fi would be so far out for the "non-personal" logic that is associated type 8. Wouldn't you think? It doesn't mean that all type 8's need to be Te dominant. I can definitely see INTJs as 8...but there, they have objective logic, Ni followed by Te. It is so bizarre to associate type 8 with Ne-Fi, these are both "subjective", "irrational" functions, their main concern isn't logic and impersonal, objective analysis, quite the opposite.

    Naranjo called the type 8 as the "sadistic character and lust". That goes incredibly against Fi, I think.
    Isn't the enneagram about what is problematic for an individual? For example, type 7s fear pain and deprivation, which lines up well with the inferior Si of ENxPs. Similarly, 8s fear being controlled. Jung has this to say on Fi-doms
    Although this tendency to overpower or coerce the other person with her secret feelings rarely plays a disturbing role in the normal type, and never leads to a serious attempt of this kind, some trace of it nevertheless seeps through into the personal effect they have on him, in the form of a domineering influence often difficult to define[......]whereupon her influence becomes debased into a personal tyranny. Whenever the unconscious subject is identified with the ego, the mysterious power of intensive feeling turns into a banal and overweening desire to dominate, into vanity and despotic bossiness. This produces a type of woman notorious for her unscrupulous ambition and mischievous cruelty.

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    Alright this post is insanely long sorry for that ! and my english is not perfect, specially in grammar and spelling so please don't mind too much and this is way too big ang too much time consuming for me to read it all over again !


    Quote Originally Posted by Starcrash View Post
    I'm intrigued by the possibility of an INFP 8.
    @B1lly_B1lly, have you considered enneatype 6? Seems like a fairly common enneatype for INFPs and I can see why 6 types might mistype as 8s.
    The person I was with when I took the enneagram test is a 6 and her description was sincerely of the mark for me, where the 8 was fitting almost perfectly.

    Quote Originally Posted by LunaLuminosity View Post
    I don't get how INFP and 8 is such a contradictory combination. Maybe some of the experts can speak out here? I know someone said something about 8s having their emotional center repressed but does that necessarily mean that feeling as a function is repressed? If this were true then only T-dominant types could ever be type 8?
    "emotional center repressed" That's exactly it ... "repressed" which means it is active but the rest of the survival instinct tries to shut it down to let place for a more rationnal and logical type of living.
    For your information, I found a study that seems to show that even an IFTP is higly incompatible with 8 as much as IFNP the point seems to not be there at all and I don't think it is but I'll get deeper in that point later. (Personality Types: Enneagram and Myers Briggs Type Correlations - Enneagram and Myers Briggs)

    Quote Originally Posted by pinkgraffiti View Post
    Hi, you INFP person

    With all due respect to you being INFP and type 4.......I'd be more likely to think it would be an INFP with an enneagram that disintegrates into an 8...I just checked, so that would be enneagram 2. Because I associate 8 with Te, right? That would mean an INFP under severe stress as it's the opposite function to your dominant.
    If I take my case as an example, being under severe stress is my day to day bread, I have been telling my relatives for many years now that I feel constantly in a fight with myself trying to figure out my decisions in life between my guts and my head. Maybe that's what you are saying right now ^^ but once again it does not seems that all T combinations of mbti fit in the 8 either, and also keep in mind that you are never only one type of personnality either in enneagram or in mbti you are probably like 50 % of one and 30 and 20 % of two others or any other combination.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wind Up Rex View Post
    An INFP 8 is either a mistyped INFP or a mistyped 8.

    I might cop to ISFP 8, though.
    Thansk for your intervention, very interesting points and arguments. Once the other one said, if what you have to say is not shiner than silence then you should not say anything ... to meditate


    Quote Originally Posted by pinkgraffiti View Post
    Not an expert, but I wanna give my opinion
    Because (if I'm not mistaken) being an 8 is about being rational and not accepting bullshit. The sort of things I'd associate with Te. The intricate feelings of Fi would be so far out for the "non-personal" logic that is associated type 8. Wouldn't you think? It doesn't mean that all type 8's need to be Te dominant. I can definitely see INTJs as 8...but there, they have objective logic, Ni followed by Te. It is so bizarre to associate type 8 with Ne-Fi, these are both "subjective", "irrational" functions, their main concern isn't logic and impersonal, objective analysis, quite the opposite.

    Naranjo called the type 8 as the "sadistic character and lust". That goes incredibly against Fi, I think.
    I'm incredibly far from your point of view, I tend to believe that the best logic is not impersonnal and general. The best way, in my opinion, to think of people and try to understand them and their actions is to get down to a very subjective and personnal level of theirs. A lot of modern theories in social sciences and economics will be trying to modelize the subjectivness of a decision.

    What I mean is that considereing the feelings of one person to try to understand them is central, and to me chaos theory along with probability and relativism are the best tools to understand someone. Here I'm only talking about understanding but from there to "accept bullshit" as you say, it is really different. If I understand what you mean behind that I would resume it as, everybody should try to deeply understand the point of view of the other one but strongly defend is own and not accept anything that goes against is ideal/values.

    Then your last sentence is again far from my point of view. sadistic character and lust goes against Fi ????? whatttttttt ????? it's totally the opposite, note that the description of an 8 also include the fall into huge and deep anger when the subject is under stress ! Once again I relate to all those realy easily (slightly less on the sadistic tho^^). All those 3 points (sadistic, lust and anger) are only motivated by Feelings and not by Thinking, if it was T that would motivate that, it does not make any sense. Being sadistic as no point in a logical mind, you damage something without doing any good to your own situation and you might even start to get hated or create blow back for your future, Lust is a huge spending of your time for a short term satisfaction and can ask you a lot of effort for something that does not build any good, logical and rationnal outcome for your future. And finally anger is the worst way to communicate with your environement putting yourself and all you cherish to the line. It is all linked to a very strong expressions of feelings to me not thinking at all.

    And that goes, in my case, very well with what I said earlier, if I am in a good and safe moment in my life I will probably not fall into those, but if the stress I am feeling gets to overcome me, I will find myself in the excess usage (which is also another exultation of the 8 apparently) of all those 3 points, specially sexuality and anger, with some sadistic sexuality traits coming in play ^^


    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post

    It isn't like it's totally impossible foreverz. They just don't go together. Like oil and water. Sure an emulsifier would put it there (i.e. degenerating into an 8 from type 2) but they're not really so compatible long term. I'm sure there's someone in the world somewhere that's INFP type 8, healthy, and living the dream. But he's probably in an Amazonian jungle somewhere and their internet is down right now.

    And it's important to remember that types have little tidbits of other things in them. An INFP isn't just a cat-loving hermit. You can exhibit traits that are just part of your personality.. an outlier of the norm, but still part of the equation and data nonetheless.

    INFPs aren't undriven people. They aren't unmotivated automatically, or striving for independence.. these are things humans in general tend to need and want. So naturally, if they want to find type 8 elements in themselves, they definitely will. Type 8 is one of those types that sounds really sexy to be (especially for young feeler dudes who want to feel a bit manlier and more validated by the macho sounding descriptions of the type 8) and gives everyone something to relate to just a little (like wanting possession over your own life, liking independence, and other cool things) but in reality is just a massive pain in the dick personality that requires constant honing, refining, and tailoring to not be a total uneducated stuck up asswipe to everyone around you.

    If you're INFP and typing as an 8, and you're young.. I think I'd look long and hard as to why before I'd be likely to accept that. If 60 year old sociology Professor INFP said he was type 8, well.. I wouldn't argue with him. It's.. possible. I guess.
    It's hard to argue with what you just said as you only give reasons to discreditate someone who will disagree with you, and you say in your last sentence you will aknowledge the person more than what they are saying ... You start with words like "healthy" and "living the dream", that's easy to defend as it has no meaning in itself at all, what is it to be healthy ? As for being attracted to the macho points of the 8 you are absolutly wrong in my case. I feel like I am like this and I want to get away from them, as said before the anger/kind of arrogant and heartless outlook is harming me a lot but those traits that have becomes part of my personnality now were made to protect some deeper and more sensible traits that have been put at suffer earlier in my experience.

    I will completly admit that I am quite versatile and changing from the perspective of other people, but those different reactions and way of being, answer to a very precise logic in my mind that has been built to protect some other parts of me.

    I can only repeat what I already said, I really relate to the description of both IFNP and 8 as I read other descriptions (both in mbti and enneagram) I could not check as many boxes as I did with those.

    But please ask questions if you feel like or tell me precise points that would make it clear if I'm not one of those two types... "look long and hard" that's exactly what I am trying to do here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kullervo View Post
    No. I would say that 9 is the most common Enneatype for INFPs, then 4 and p6. There are also a few INFP cp6s, 5s (mainly male) and 2s (mainly female).

    As others have said...an INFP 8 is probably either an INFP cp6 or an ENFP 8.
    Once again very interesting points to defend your point of view...

    Quote Originally Posted by boomslang View Post
    sx variant 4 would probably come across as 8-like to some extent.

    I think the main types that you'd expect to see as 8s are

    ESTJ, ENTJ, ESTP, ESFP, ISFP, ISTP.

    I generally associate it with Te and Se.
    Good points.... (although it seems like you are right for the first 4 and wrong for the last two Personality Types: Enneagram and Myers Briggs Type Correlations - Enneagram and Myers Briggs)

    Quote Originally Posted by LunaLuminosity View Post
    Isn't the enneagram about what is problematic for an individual? For example, type 7s fear pain and deprivation, which lines up well with the inferior Si of ENxPs. Similarly, 8s fear being controlled. Jung has this to say on Fi-doms

    Although this tendency to overpower or coerce the other person with her secret feelings rarely plays a disturbing role in the normal type, and never leads to a serious attempt of this kind, some trace of it nevertheless seeps through into the personal effect they have on him, in the form of a domineering influence often difficult to define[......]whereupon her influence becomes debased into a personal tyranny. Whenever the unconscious subject is identified with the ego, the mysterious power of intensive feeling turns into a banal and overweening desire to dominate, into vanity and despotic bossiness. This produces a type of woman notorious for her unscrupulous ambition and mischievous cruelty.
    That's how I would say that the 8 and IFNP could be together. And that will be my conclusion for this answer (sorry for the very huge post but I really wanted to answer everybody).

    That's how I retrospectivly see how I ended up in this contradiction. If young enough you start to work and understand who you are, and see in front of your very eyes the consequences and the wrong sides of your own personnality, because you see people like you making those mistakes. Then you will start to focus and grow other parts of your personnality and by conditioning yourself you turn them into actual traits of your character. Those new traits developed start to give you satisfaction, not only because it protects you and prevent your bad sides to show up frequently, but also on other parts of your life that you were not expecting. Like social abilities and recognition, then you integrate those traits deeply and start to see yourself as equipped with different tools that you bring up in different situations.

    I am truly an introvert, as I refill my energy on my own and doing my own stuff in a cat-loving hermit mode if I have the chance to have that person around me, and going out and relate to other people cost me energy. But I do it a lot now because I saw the balance and the positive things that it brings to me. I do acting and go out a lot with a bunch of friends, but my room is a cave and my deep feelings and moments a treasure that I don't show very easily. I travelled alone around oceania and asia for more than a year, backpacking around going places to places meetings tons of people but never holding too long with them as I wanted this experience to be on myself with myself, yet I would not work alone and I am being really carefull with those moments where I start to isolate.

    I am genuily curious and willing to answer questions on how, why it would be possible or not, for the sake of conversation first of all and to know myself and the others better. Let me know !

    P.S: I read the description of 5 and I saw what was close to the 8 under some specific situation and stress, what made me going away from it was that the description of how 5 react to a positive environment does not fit really where the 8 one is. The first 8 description I read was saying that 8 is, in a positive situation tending towards simplicity and peace of mind which is the reverse side of the anger and excessive behavior of the stress conditions.

    As I am wrinting about that how many of you saw the movie about the robot Jhonny 5, to cut it simple, it's a robot with a programmed base spirit so higly logical and mathematical, but yet with a strong sense of feelings and connection with others that overcome is thinking base, and in the movie, with a very huge propention to anger when it feels endangered for himself or for what he holds to hea... motherboard ! That's how I feel with the only difference that I feel like a sentimental based person who developped logic later on and with a strong sense of sexuality and lust in general (as lust if you enlarge the definition can be adressesd to more things than sex, like alcohol, food, gambling games ... all the things I love ^^)

    Another thing that came to mind, is the image that this trailer give of the Grey guy in 50 shades of grey, keep in mind that I have not read the book or seen the movie I just saw the trailer on the web and yeah that's how I could put together and IFNP and 8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fns7oJeQmZ8). It's obviously a very basic aprroximative and naive vision of a way more complex thing but that's of it feels to me.

  4. #104
    great at parties Array boomslang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by B1lly_B1lly View Post
    Good points.... (although it seems like you are right for the first 4 and wrong for the last two Personality Types: Enneagram and Myers Briggs Type Correlations - Enneagram and Myers Briggs)
    Eh, depends on the the resource you look at. I've seen ones that name the ISxP types as the only introverts with access to an enneagram 8. Others also naming ISxJs. I'd consider types leading with intuition (Ni or Ne) to be least compatible with type 8, and the gut centre in general.

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    Senior Member Array Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pinkgraffiti View Post
    Not an expert, but I wanna give my opinion
    Because (if I'm not mistaken) being an 8 is about being rational and not accepting bullshit. The sort of things I'd associate with Te. The intricate feelings of Fi would be so far out for the "non-personal" logic that is associated type 8. Wouldn't you think? It doesn't mean that all type 8's need to be Te dominant. I can definitely see INTJs as 8...but there, they have objective logic, Ni followed by Te. It is so bizarre to associate type 8 with Ne-Fi, these are both "subjective", "irrational" functions, their main concern isn't logic and impersonal, objective analysis, quite the opposite.

    Naranjo called the type 8 as the "sadistic character and lust". That goes incredibly against Fi, I think.
    Naranjo also thought all gay people were type 4s, so...
    "But you forget that there is one value that is greater than all others: human freedom. Because no matter how perfectly you set the world up for humanity, they will always rebel simply to exert their own selves. You cannot win."

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    Quote Originally Posted by boomslang View Post
    Eh, depends on the the resource you look at. I've seen ones that name the ISxP types as the only introverts with access to an enneagram 8. Others also naming ISxJs. I'd consider types leading with intuition (Ni or Ne) to be least compatible with type 8, and the gut centre in general.
    That makes no sense at all ! the intuition is by definition coming from your guts ! where the Sensing form is coming from your brain and and the receptors of your senses ... The gut center is the intuitition and the intuitition is from the gut center.

    Enneagram Central - Centers

    the gut center type "They have a different approach than thinkers; they have an intuitive "gut feeling" way of making their way through the world...they also are often highly intuitive"

    Clearly an NF and not an ST

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    Human Grumpy Cat Array senza tema's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chanaynay View Post
    I think any INFP considering type 8 should look at E2 or E5 first.
    Or cp6.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arcana View Post
    Or cp6.
    Could you develop ? why you think that ? how some one like me who think he is an INFP/8, can find himself more represented into those others types ? etc

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arcana View Post
    Or cp6.
    CP6s mistyping as 8s seems to be a common trend around these parts. I'm sure 4s (especially sx) could mistype as 8s as well.
    7w6 - 2w3 - 8w7 sx/so

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    Is this thread still going on?!

    @B1lly_B1lly Forgive me if this is redundant of what others have already said. I agree with the sentiment that INFP and Enneagram 8 do not correlate. I'd even be as bold to say that I think it never happens. What could happen though, is similar to my own typing situation-- I am a Sx-first 4 with an 8 fix. I have 8ish tendencies, mostly centering around control, survival, and destructive themes.

    As you said just a few posts above, no individual is 100% one Enneagram type (that's where a concept called tritype comes into play). When we take the Enneagram test, the results include our ranked scores so that we can see what other types we scored high in. Our highest heart, gut, and head type scores equal our tritype (which basically explains how we are different than others of our same core type).

    If you are certain that you are in INFP, I think that only leaves these options:
    1) You are 8 fixed (which means it's still a high score and heavy influence on who you are) but have a different core.
    2) It's a health thing (integration/disintegration), because of the stress you've mentioned I'd lean more toward 2 disintegrating to 8 as others have said. Truthfully though, I don't know many 2's who introspect the way you are doing here.

    I believe the first possibility is the strongest, which only leaves you to investigate your core. Have you thought about starting a Type Me thread, so we can assist by asking questions, suggesting links and material, etc? If anything, it will help you get to the bottom of your typology (even if you are an 8).
    Find my Enneagram writing here, and ethical boutique here.✨
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