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Thread: 4w3 vs 4w5

  1. #51
    Feelin' FiNe speculative's Avatar
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    I agree with Bubbles; some of that sounds more 4w5 than 4w3. However, I normally don't let my Darkside INFP out on the forums to roam free, so I may come off as more 3 when I'm really more 5...
    "How can I be, all I want to be,
    When all I want to do is strip away these stilled constraints
    And crush this charade, shred this sad, masquerade"
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGeq5v7L3WM

  2. #52
    Revelation Lauren Ashley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by psyche View Post
    ... But we also feel that we're at civil war with ourselves...we tend to swing between the types that can feel incompatible. For example, the 3 in me is extraverted and likes to be out in the world. But the 4 is introverted, and wants to stay inside and snuggle up alone with my partner.

    One thing I don't relate to in the description is the "lightness" of 4w3. I don't experience this AT ALL. My 4w3 friends and I are intense, struggle with dark thoughts and moods, and I'm an academic who's attracted to depth of knowledge and understanding.

    Also, we don't really seek out attention. One one level, we want to be creatively or intellectually witnessed and appreciated. But we're also quite self-conscious and can't spend too long in the spotlight. So, there's that dichotomy again.
    I can relate to this more than pretty much anything else in this thread other than the posted description.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bubbles View Post
    For real? I totally do that. And in conversations with other 4w3s, I've noticed this flaw is quite common among us.
    How do you seek attention, exactly? Is it overt or more subtle? Can you describe a scenario?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bubbles View Post
    Well, that's odd. This sounds very 4w5. 4s are more likely to explore their darker side and puzzle through their emotions when utilizing the 5 wing. This leads to a much heavier and darker mood than the lightness of a 4 trying to express their creative side in an extroverted show of 3.
    Quote Originally Posted by speculative View Post
    I agree with Bubbles; some of that sounds more 4w5 than 4w3. However, I normally don't let my Darkside INFP out on the forums to roam free, so I may come off as more 3 when I'm really more 5...
    I could really relate to that part, and I'm still trying to decide between 3 and 5 (kind of, I'm leaning towards 3). So can I get some clarification on this: does the 3 wing bring a distinct lightness to the 4 while the 5 brings darker moods and interest in working through emotions? I was under the impression that heavier moods was a 4 characteristic in general, and that the 3 wing alleviated this a bit, but not much because at the core the 4 is still a 4 and needs to explore the depths of their feelings.

  3. #53
    See Right Through Me Bubbles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lauren Ashley View Post
    How do you seek attention, exactly? Is it overt or more subtle? Can you describe a scenario?
    Hmm, both I s'pose. I try to make it seem like the other person's idea. I start talking about something with the person--like, maybe about writing, or music--and then I mention something I have done or am doing. And if I drop enough hints, I'll get asked to show it to them sometime or where it is I'm performing. And since it's THEIR idea, I feel no shame in sharing anything with them.

    ...Of course the whole time it's been my goal to do that.

    Also I have an irrational jealousy of other people's accomplishments. If I'm in a choir and the soprano girl is always always always singing the lead, I think to myself, "I would loooove to hear you sing the low notes. Really. In fact, if we had a lower song, I would be up there, not you."
    And I glower at them the whole time and try to suppress this jealous feeling.

    I also worry more about how my posts are perceived than whether or not I'm happy with them. I want my posts to be correct so that other people approve of them, not so that I'm intrinsically satisfied that they're right. That's the whole "image" thing that 4w3s have: they care more about how they're presented to other people than how they're presented to themselves. At the same time, their identity remains highly important, and as much as they'd like to, it's difficult for a 4w3 to act untrue to themselves for attention. Which invites plenty of inner conflict.

    All of this isn't exactly mature 4w3 behavior, but it's my thought process, and I have to consciously suppress it if I want to think otherwise.

    I could really relate to that part, and I'm still trying to decide between 3 and 5 (kind of, I'm leaning towards 3). So can I get some clarification on this: does the 3 wing bring a distinct lightness to the 4 while the 5 brings darker moods and interest in working through emotions? I was under the impression that heavier moods was a 4 characteristic in general, and that the 3 wing alleviated this a bit, but not much because at the core the 4 is still a 4 and needs to explore the depths of their feelings.
    Well, you're right: 4s ARE dark in general. But a 4w3 is more likely to gloss over their bad things to portray them as good things to other people. A 4w5 would be more likely to sort through them and get in the icky gray areas to puzzle through them all. 4w3s keep their private struggles private. 4w5s are like, hey this is me and if you don't like it sucks for you because I'm me and that's what you get. Really, just read the two profiles of the 3s and the 5s. Which behaviors do you most often project?

    Also, you could just be a balanced wing. And what BlackCat said earlier about how everyone is influenced by both wings also rings true here.
    4w3, IEI, so/sx/sp, female, and Cancer sign.

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  4. #54
    Shaman BlackCat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bubbles View Post
    Also, you could just be a balanced wing.
    Do you think that a "balanced wing" could possibly mean that both wings are somewhat weak, but have an affect on someone like a dominant wing would? Just sort of distributed between the qualities of both wings? I've observed that in people with "balanced wings."
    () 9w8-3w4-7w6 tritype.

    sCueI (primary Inquisition)

  5. #55
    Revelation Lauren Ashley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bubbles View Post
    Hmm, both I s'pose. I try to make it seem like the other person's idea. I start talking about something with the person--like, maybe about writing, or music--and then I mention something I have done or am doing. And if I drop enough hints, I'll get asked to show it to them sometime or where it is I'm performing. And since it's THEIR idea, I feel no shame in sharing anything with them.

    ...Of course the whole time it's been my goal to do that.

    Also I have an irrational jealousy of other people's accomplishments. If I'm in a choir and the soprano girl is always always always singing the lead, I think to myself, "I would loooove to hear you sing the low notes. Really. In fact, if we had a lower song, I would be up there, not you."
    And I glower at them the whole time and try to suppress this jealous feeling.
    Is that regular behavior, or does something spark that in you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bubbles View Post
    I also worry more about how my posts are perceived than whether or not I'm happy with them. I want them to be correct so that other people approve of them, not so that I'm intrinsically satisfied that they're right. That's the whole "image" thing that 4w3s have: they care more about how they're presented to other people than how they're presented to themselves.
    I guess I care about both.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bubbles View Post
    Well, you're right: 4s ARE dark in general. But a 4w3 is more likely to gloss over their bad things to portray them as good things to other people. A 4w5 would be more likely to sort through them and get in the icky gray areas to puzzle through them all. 4w3s keep their private struggles private. 4w5s are like, hey this is me and if you don't like it sucks for you because I'm me and that's what you get.
    I definitely keep my private life private. And I generally don't discuss negative feelings, but I do sort through them on my own. I relate to the "this is me" attitude.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bubbles View Post
    Really, just read the two profiles of the 3s and the 5s. Which behaviors do you most often project?

    Also, you could just be a balanced wing.
    I relate to both and for the longest time I was trying to decide whether I was 3, 4, or 5. I tested as 3 and 5 most often, but never 4. Then I read a few descriptions of the sx 4 and I knew that was me exactly, so I decided on 4.

    I think that I am projecting 3, but maybe I am projecting 5. For example, I went to the library a couple of weeks ago where I picked up six Enneagram books to help figure this out (yes, this is serious bidness). One of the librarians saw the books and told me he was a fan of Enneagram and asked what type I was. I said 4w3 and he gave me a look and said "Are you sure? I thought you could be 4w5 or 5w4." So I don't know, maybe the balanced wing is for me or I'm just a 4w3 playing a role.

  6. #56
    See Right Through Me Bubbles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lauren Ashley View Post
    Is that regular behavior, or does something spark that in you?
    Frankly, this happens quite often.

    I guess I care about both.
    Makes sense, both wings affect a person.

    I definitely keep my private life private. And I generally don't discuss negative feelings, but I do sort through them on my own. I relate to the "this is me" attitude.
    Y'know, 5s in general don't really discuss negative feelings either. For me, I don't want to intrude on people or bore them or have their opinion of me be tainted. If I know someone is willing to listen, I might share how I feel though.

    I relate to both and for the longest time I was trying to decide whether I was 3, 4, or 5. I tested as 3 and 5 most often, but never 4. Then I read a few descriptions of the sx 4 and I knew that was me exactly, so I decided on 4.
    Which is exactly why people can't rely on tests all the time.

    I think that I am projecting 3, but maybe I am projecting 5. For example, I went to the library a couple of weeks ago where I picked up six Enneagram books to help figure this out (yes, this is serious bidness). One of the librarians saw the books and told me he was a fan of Enneagram and asked me what type I was. I said 4w3 and he gave me a look and said "Are you sure? I thought you could be 4w5 or 5w4." So I don't know, maybe the balanced wing is for me or I'm just a 4w3 playing a role.
    Okay, I'm going to be honest, I think that's very 5ish behavior. A 4w3 would ask people, or be more willing to bend their opinions based on someone else's perception (note: this is why I changed from thinking I was 4w5 to 4w3). A 5 would be more concerned about competency and wouldn't accept someone else's opinion at face value. Simply considering it and being agreed with isn't enough for 4w5; you want enough validity to satisfy you, yourself.
    4w3, IEI, so/sx/sp, female, and Cancer sign.

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  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bubbles View Post
    Hmm, both I s'pose. I try to make it seem like the other person's idea. I start talking about something with the person--like, maybe about writing, or music--and then I mention something I have done or am doing. And if I drop enough hints, I'll get asked to show it to them sometime or where it is I'm performing. And since it's THEIR idea, I feel no shame in sharing anything with them.

    ...Of course the whole time it's been my goal to do that.

    Also I have an irrational jealousy of other people's accomplishments. If I'm in a choir and the soprano girl is always always always singing the lead, I think to myself, "I would loooove to hear you sing the low notes. Really. In fact, if we had a lower song, I would be up there, not you."
    And I glower at them the whole time and try to suppress this jealous feeling.

    I also worry more about how my posts are perceived than whether or not I'm happy with them. I want my posts to be correct so that other people approve of them, not so that I'm intrinsically satisfied that they're right. That's the whole "image" thing that 4w3s have: they care more about how they're presented to other people than how they're presented to themselves. At the same time, their identity remains highly important, and as much as they'd like to, it's difficult for a 4w3 to act untrue to themselves for attention. Which invites plenty of inner conflict.

    All of this isn't exactly mature 4w3 behavior, but it's my thought process, and I have to consciously suppress it if I want to think otherwise.


    Well, you're right: 4s ARE dark in general. But a 4w3 is more likely to gloss over their bad things to portray them as good things to other people. A 4w5 would be more likely to sort through them and get in the icky gray areas to puzzle through them all. 4w3s keep their private struggles private. 4w5s are like, hey this is me and if you don't like it sucks for you because I'm me and that's what you get. Really, just read the two profiles of the 3s and the 5s. Which behaviors do you most often project?

    Also, you could just be a balanced wing. And what BlackCat said earlier about how everyone is influenced by both wings also rings true here.
    Seriously... get out of my brain!

  8. #58
    See Right Through Me Bubbles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brainheart View Post
    Seriously... get out of my brain!
    Oh, that's a major relief to me that you agreed, actually. Which might be an example of 4w3 itself, haha.
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  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bubbles View Post
    Oh, that's a major relief to me that you agreed, actually. Which might be an example of 4w3 itself, haha.
    Yeah, no doubt... I've been waiting for your response!

  10. #60
    Revelation Lauren Ashley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bubbles View Post
    Okay, I'm going to be honest, I think that's very 5ish behavior. A 4w3 would ask people, or be more willing to bend their opinions based on someone else's perception (note: this is why I changed from thinking I was 4w5 to 4w3). A 5 would be more concerned about competency and wouldn't accept someone else's opinion at face value. Simply considering it and being agreed with isn't enough for 4w5; you want enough validity to satisfy you, yourself.
    I haven't seen any 4w3 FJs as of yet, only FPs, so I wonder how that affects things as well. I don't really ever accept others' perceptions because I'm Ni dom. That wasn't the first time I've been told I'm probably not 4w3, but I could give examples that illustrate stereotypical 3 qualities. Like my penchant for fashion and desire to be a performer when I was younger. My last avatar was pretty 3ish too, I think.

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