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Thread: 4w3 vs 4w5

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by the state i am in View Post
    i wonder if beck hanson is an intp 4w3.

    .
    Omigod I love Beck.

  2. #42
    Senior Member souffle's Avatar
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    Loving this thread. Just did a test and worked out I was a 4w3.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bubbles View Post
    For me, I realized I was a 3 wing purely by accident. I also assumed I was 4w5, but when I brought up enneagram to friends, they kind of snickered a bit and were like, "So Ms. Competitive doesn't think she's a 3 wing. Riiiight."

    It's very draining to be a 4w3 INFP. I'm a complete and total ham; I love being in the limelight if I'm acting in a show, or reading my stories to someone, or singing. I am an attention mongrel who tries very hard not to let her diva side show (because of course, INFPs *must* be modest ). My individuality just loves being praised. It's quite selfish, but I get a huge rush when I succeed at something I love--like writing--and sometimes I'll say "Oh, I'm surprised I got so much good feedback" but in my head my snarky little voice is saying "That's right, I got the best responses, take that, journalist lady on the left!"

    It's not enough for me to express myself. I want someone to take note of it and like it. Of course, not all 4w3s are as immature in this department as me.
    I never start creating something without thinking delightedly of the praise I may receive afterwards. I feel sorta guilty that I don't just create for the joy of creating, which would be the ideal. The trick is to make others think that I am this ideal; the independent artist who loves to express themselves, and not just an impersonator who secretly just wants others to acknowledge what an awesome artist they are.

  3. #43
    Senior Member the state i am in's Avatar
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    for isfp 4s, is 4w3 or 4w5 more common?

  4. #44
    Twerking & Lurking ayoitsStepho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by souffle View Post
    I never start creating something without thinking delightedly of the praise I may receive afterwards. I feel sorta guilty that I don't just create for the joy of creating, which would be the ideal. The trick is to make others think that I am this ideal; the independent artist who loves to express themselves, and not just an impersonator who secretly just wants others to acknowledge what an awesome artist they are.
    Yeah....thats completely me too. I'm so horrible, lol.
    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    ayoitsStepho is becoming someone else. Actually her true self, a rite of passage.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by souffle View Post
    I never start creating something without thinking delightedly of the praise I may receive afterwards. I feel sorta guilty that I don't just create for the joy of creating, which would be the ideal. The trick is to make others think that I am this ideal; the independent artist who loves to express themselves, and not just an impersonator who secretly just wants others to acknowledge what an awesome artist they are.
    wow. This hit home so much it's crazy. I always thought I was a 4w5, then I read Black cat's descriptions and began to have doubts. I don't really look down at people like that at all, which is what got me thinking nine. But I never felt the wings on that one, at all, especially after what bc said about desiring the opposite.

    This, souffle... I was playing the piano this morning, imagining playing the piece I was working on at the moment for someone else and wouldn't they be impressed! The imagining got so in the way I totally screwed up!

    My problem is I am crazy shy, like really self-conscious about performing for others. But it makes me feel soooo good if I get praise afterwards. And if I've had a couple of drinks I am completely in control of the conversation, telling as many unseemly antidotes as possible, etc- it's like I'm Oscar Wilde or something. And then the next day I'll be like, "Oh my God, who was that person?" I can be such a shapeshifter, often it's beyond my control.

    Have you guys seen the movie Velvet Goldmine? I think that movie must be a 4w3, if you can type films. I love that movie with my whole heart.

  6. #46
    Senior Member souffle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ayoitsStepho View Post
    Yeah....thats completely me too. I'm so horrible, lol.
    Hi there.

    Quote Originally Posted by brainheart
    wow. This hit home so much it's crazy. I always thought I was a 4w5, then I read Black cat's descriptions and began to have doubts. I don't really look down at people like that at all, which is what got me thinking nine. But I never felt the wings on that one, at all, especially after what bc said about desiring the opposite.
    On looking down at people... it's a strange mix for me, of looking down at others, and revering them. I feel elite, special next to most other people, yet still desperately look up to them and hope for their approval.

    Quote Originally Posted by brainheart
    This, souffle... I was playing the piano this morning, imagining playing the piece I was working on at the moment for someone else and wouldn't they be impressed! The imagining got so in the way I totally screwed up!
    Hehe. I can't remember if I've done that before with flute or not, but I can definitely picture myself doing it.

    Quote Originally Posted by brainheart

    My problem is I am crazy shy, like really self-conscious about performing for others. But it makes me feel soooo good if I get praise afterwards. And if I've had a couple of drinks I am completely in control of the conversation, telling as many unseemly antidotes as possible, etc- it's like I'm Oscar Wilde or something. And then the next day I'll be like, "Oh my God, who was that person?" I can be such a shapeshifter, often it's beyond my control.
    Yeah, I'm shy too, but I think it's our desire for acclaim despite our shyness which is significant. In fact it could even play a role in it- wanting so much to appear super talented to others, and being afraid of not living up to our high standard, and being embarrassed if we don't? Maybe? Just an idea.

    I wonder if alcohol would make me act cool too? This I shall have to investigate

    Haven't seen Velvet Goldmine, what's it like? Worth watching?

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by souffle View Post
    Yeah, I'm shy too, but I think it's our desire for acclaim despite our shyness which is significant. In fact it could even play a role in it- wanting so much to appear super talented to others, and being afraid of not living up to our high standard, and being embarrassed if we don't? Maybe? Just an idea.
    So I was thinking about the whole 4w3 thing after being on here yesterday, and you just expressed my thoughts so well in this paragraph above!

    Anyway, I was thinking about how well I did in school, how creative I was in school, etc, and how since I've been out, I really struggle to accomplish things. I thought it had to do with being a P, needing a schedule and all, but I think so much of it is my need for praise, for immediate feedback, for someone to tell me how talented and smart and cool I am.

    For example, I've been writing this novel off and on for three years now. It's been more off than on as of late. And I think a lot of it has to do with this high standard I have for myself coupled with this need for praise. So I do a lot of self-doubt, and I think, ah, I'm not good at this. But if I were to be turning it in, in sections, as an assignment, and I had the prospect of a teacher potentially fawning over it, I think it would be a totally different story. I think I would have finished this thing two years ago. It kind of changes my attitude toward it now, thinking about this. It kind of makes me ready to kick some ass and get it done so others can see it.

    YouTube - Velvet Goldmine Trailer

    It's basically about David Bowie and Iggy Pop, although they are fictional characters, and it is loaded with decadent wonderfulness. Doesn't hurt that Christian Bale, Jonathan Rhys-Myers, and Ewan McGregor are in it, either. I love everything about this movie. The director, Todd Haynes, is one of my favorite directors. His I'm not there, about Bob Dylan, is also great: YouTube - I'm Not There Trailer

  8. #48

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    I've really enjoyed reading this thread. And thank you, BlackCat, for posting that great description of 4w3. I particularly appreciate (and relate to) the explanation about the dichotomies.

    I'm a 4w3, and have a number of 4w3s in my life. We've discussed how we use our 3 wing as a way to cope with the heaviness and pain of being a 4. But we also feel that we're at civil war with ourselves...we tend to swing between the types that can feel incompatible. For example, the 3 in me is extraverted and likes to be out in the world. But the 4 is introverted, and wants to stay inside and snuggle up alone with my partner.

    I also find that, as a sx/so I tend to be more 4 when I'm in a (happy) relationship, when the sx instinct is fulfilled, and more 3 when I'm unhappy in relationship or single.

    One thing I don't relate to in the description is the "lightness" of 4w3. I don't experience this AT ALL. My 4w3 friends and I are intense, struggle with dark thoughts and moods, and I'm an academic who's attracted to depth of knowledge and understanding. 3w4 is a "light" type to me, but not 4w3.

    Also, we don't really seek out attention. One one level, we want to be creatively or intellectually witnessed and appreciated. But we're also quite self-conscious and can't spend too long in the spotlight. So, there's that dichotomy again.

    Interesting thread!

  9. #49
    Senior Member souffle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brainheart View Post

    For example, I've been writing this novel off and on for three years now. It's been more off than on as of late. And I think a lot of it has to do with this high standard I have for myself coupled with this need for praise. So I do a lot of self-doubt, and I think, ah, I'm not good at this. But if I were to be turning it in, in sections, as an assignment, and I had the prospect of a teacher potentially fawning over it, I think it would be a totally different story. I think I would have finished this thing two years ago. It kind of changes my attitude toward it now, thinking about this. It kind of makes me ready to kick some ass and get it done so others can see it.

    YouTube - Velvet Goldmine Trailer

    It's basically about David Bowie and Iggy Pop, although they are fictional characters, and it is loaded with decadent wonderfulness. Doesn't hurt that Christian Bale, Jonathan Rhys-Myers, and Ewan McGregor are in it, either. I love everything about this movie. The director, Todd Haynes, is one of my favorite directors. His I'm not there, about Bob Dylan, is also great: YouTube - I'm Not There Trailer
    Hey, good luck with that novel. I'm glad you've found motivation here.

    I'll definitely check the movie out. (Have already seen I'm Not There )


    Quote Originally Posted by psyche
    One thing I don't relate to in the description is the "lightness" of 4w3. I don't experience this AT ALL. My 4w3 friends and I are intense, struggle with dark thoughts and moods, and I'm an academic who's attracted to depth of knowledge and understanding. 3w4 is a "light" type to me, but not 4w3.
    I think the 'lightness' refers more to our external behaviour. For me anyway, I may be really intense and take myself very seriously deep down, but when I'm dealing with others I'm often very frivolous and silly. I think that deep down, there's this worry that no one would like my serious, heavy self, so I try and impress them instead with humour and easygoingness. But this behaviour doesn't make me any less dark or intense- we are still 4s, after all.

    Quote Originally Posted by psyche
    Also, we don't really seek out attention. One one level, we want to be creatively or intellectually witnessed and appreciated. But we're also quite self-conscious and can't spend too long in the spotlight. So, there's that dichotomy again.
    Sure, we might not go out of our way to seek attention in a direct, immediate "Hey look at me - right now!" kind of way. But deep down, we want to be acknowledged, and this helps us overcome our self consciousness (and for my part, laziness) and achieve or create something that will get us recognised.

  10. #50
    See Right Through Me Bubbles's Avatar
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    I also find that, as a sx/so I tend to be more 4 when I'm in a (happy) relationship, when the sx instinct is fulfilled, and more 3 when I'm unhappy in relationship or single.
    This sounds like disintegration actually! When unhappy, a 4 disintegrates into 2, and they therefore have unhealthy 2 tendencies. That can appear like 3, but in actuality 3s are more concerned with APPROVAL and IMAGE and 2s are concerned with LOVE and ACCEPTANCE. So that's why I think you're talking about disintegration here.

    One thing I don't relate to in the description is the "lightness" of 4w3. I don't experience this AT ALL. My 4w3 friends and I are intense, struggle with dark thoughts and moods, and I'm an academic who's attracted to depth of knowledge and understanding. 3w4 is a "light" type to me, but not 4w3.
    Well, that's odd. This sounds very 4w5. 4s are more likely to explore their darker side and puzzle through their emotions when utilizing the 5 wing. This leads to a much heavier and darker mood than the lightness of a 4 trying to express their creative side in an extroverted show of 3.

    Also, we don't really seek out attention. One one level, we want to be creatively or intellectually witnessed and appreciated. But we're also quite self-conscious and can't spend too long in the spotlight. So, there's that dichotomy again.
    For real? I totally do that. And in conversations with other 4w3s, I've noticed this flaw is quite common among us.

    I'm curious, why do you see yourself as 4w3?

    Quote Originally Posted by souffle View Post
    I think the 'lightness' refers more to our external behaviour. For me anyway, I may be really intense and take myself very seriously deep down, but when I'm dealing with others I'm often very frivolous and silly. I think that deep down, there's this worry that no one would like my serious, heavy self, so I try and impress them instead with humour and easygoingness. But this behaviour doesn't make me any less dark or intense- we are still 4s, after all.



    Sure, we might not go out of our way to seek attention in a direct, immediate "Hey look at me - right now!" kind of way. But deep down, we want to be acknowledged, and this helps us overcome our self consciousness (and for my part, laziness) and achieve or create something that will get us recognised.
    ^ Definitely agree. To all the above.
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