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Thread: 4w3 vs 4w5

  1. #11
    Kraken down on piracy Lux's Avatar
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    At first I also thought I was a 5w4, but after being more honest with myself I don't think I am, I only wanted to be because it's "intelligent" and that's how I want to be perceived. I'm pretty sure I'm a 4w3 .
    "It is not length of life, but depth of life." ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson

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  2. #12
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenna View Post
    At first I also thought I was a 5w4, but after being more honest with myself I don't think I am, I only wanted to be because it's "intelligent" and that's how I want to be perceived. I'm pretty sure I'm a 4w3 .
    That's interesting...I feel like I'd like to be perceived as 4w3, because it sounds more balanced and charming. 4w5 sounds cranky and depressed. I fear I'm more cranky than charming
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  3. #13
    Revelation Lauren Ashley's Avatar
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    I did some self-study of the Enneagram and it does seem I am 4w3 but everyone I speak to that knows about Enneagram, online and offline, says they don't think I am, and instead 4w5 or 5w4. These are people who know way more about Enneagram than I do, so I wonder. I feel strongly 3, 4, and 5, so maybe I have a balanced wing.

    Anyway, I despise 4w3 descriptions, especially in relation to 4w5. 4w3 is made out to be drama queen-ish, insincerely charming, and not thoughtful. Some descriptions even make it seem like 4w3's are mildly schizophrenic. I don't see myself as that at all. Even in BlackCat's description, 4w5s are intellectual and introspective... as compared to 4w3 which is not? Hmmm...

    I do relate to this part very much:
    Quote Originally Posted by BlackCat View Post
    4w3s are marked by multiple dichotomies due to types 3 and 4 being opposites in so many ways...

  4. #14
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    I always identified with 4w5 but reading those descriptions...I switch (yeah I know, this sounds familiar ). I do the 4w3 thing for fun and games and in a big group, preferably when I'm feeling good about myself. Smokescreens and illusions, they're fun to play around with. But if I'm not in the mood, if people talk to me one on one, if I'm being serious,you'll find 4w5-like behavior in me...*ponders*
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  5. #15
    Revelation Lauren Ashley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    I always identified with 4w5 but reading those descriptions...I switch (yeah I know, this sounds familiar ). I do the 4w3 thing for fun and games and in a big group, preferably when I'm feeling good about myself. Smokescreens and illusions, they're fun to play around with. But if I'm not in the mood, if people talk to me one on one, if I'm being serious,you'll find 4w5-like behavior in me...*ponders*
    4w3 and 3w4 seem like ultimate chameleons. You could be 4w3 and 4w5 is just one of your facades.
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  6. #16
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    I identify more with 4w5 though, inside. That's the one that costs me no effort at all, no energy. I'd say I use 4w3 to just have fun with, or feel the need to entertain people. That does however ask for a high price in energy.

    How does that work for you btw? You utilize 4w5 in public, since everyone sees you that way? And how did you come to the conclusion that you were 4w3 even though you seem to identify more with 4w5?
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  7. #17
    Revelation Lauren Ashley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    I identify more with 4w5 though, inside. That's the one that costs me no effort at all, no energy. I'd say I use 4w3 to just have fun with, or feel the need to entertain people. That does however ask for a high price in energy.
    That's how it is with me as well. 4w5 is the solitary me, 4w3 is my "sometimes" persona. And only with certain people or in a certain setting. But I'd add that there is a split between the 4w3 part and 5-ish part of me. It also depends on how I am feeling that day or moment .
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  8. #18
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    wow, that was probably the best 4w description i have ever read

    i already knew that i'm 4w5, but the thing about "staying true to yourself" really fits so great. I didn't even know it was part of the 4w5 description before, and yet i still find that it's one of my strongest traits i think

  9. #19
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lauren Ashley View Post
    Anyway, I despise 4w3 descriptions, especially in relation to 4w5. 4w3 is made out to be drama queen-ish, insincerely charming, and not thoughtful. Some descriptions even make it seem like 4w3's are mildly schizophrenic.
    I feel the exact opposite. I like the descriptions of 4w3 better than 4w5, but I think that's the kind of person I'd want to date, not the person I am .
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  10. #20
    Senior Member BlueinGreen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackCat View Post

    4w5s have a harsher edge than 4w3s and are the true outsiders of the enneagram. They tend to be more intellectual and introspective. They are more likely to philosophize their inner reality. Many 4w5s have an unflinching "this is me so deal with it" persona that's harder and crustier in comparison to 4w3s. They tend to be absurdly original or profoundly eclectic. Either way they have a more "take it or leave it" attitude and are more likely to direct a critical edge at others. Their persona serves more to redirect their shame away from their vulnerable self behind it in contrast to the 4w3 whose more shapeshifting persona facilitates relating to people. The more shame a 4w5 feels the more they implode, or in some cases amplify their persona as a countershame response. As a result 4w5s are more likely to present a more bizarre and even grotesque image in some instances that reflects their feelings of defectiveness combined with a fascination for the macabre that their five wing brings.

    4w5s have a great pride in staying "true to themselves no matter what" amidst what changes in the world around them. They accept being isolated from others and are personally invested in their self-image enough to stick with it through thick and thin. They are equally proud of suffering for their weirdness as paying the price for being who they are only makes them feel even more authentic about themselves. It illustrates how they are too complex to be understood by the unworthy who lack the perception to decode their many layers to understand the real them.

    Suffering for their internal self-image serves to reinforce their authenticity. The more they suffer for it the more they cling to their internal self-image and 4w5s wear their lack of compromise as a badge of honor for being true to themselves. "I'm completely true to myself and no one can take that from me." They mythologize their own personal tragedy. On the flip side being double-withdrawn they have less of a will to deal with the world and feel more overwhelmed by it. Despite seeking meaning in everything they are more likely to tend towards nihilism. Combine that with being even more true to themselves in response to their suffering and they become more and more disconnected from the world. In a self-destructive cycle the 4w5 holds his head high at never selling himself out like others, but ironically has little to nothing to show for it since he's actualized his identity with futile concepts that have no basis in reality. A feeling of hopelessness sets in and he withdraws from the world more permanently.
    Hahaha wow, whoever wrote that one certainly has a bleak outlook on 4w5's. But f*ck him, I'm gonna be myself if it kills me, amirite?

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