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[Type 8] Leadership, and the 8w9

wolfy

awsm
Joined
Jun 30, 2008
Messages
12,251
hey Disco, and other 8w9s, what is the core of being an 8w9? i mean, what would you describe as the key parts of being 8w9?

how much does the 9 wing temper the 8 aggresiveness?
i have always thought of 8s (with either wing) as very aggressive and dominant at all times, but maybe that is not true. do you 8w9s feel uncomfortable or resentful if you have to forfeit leadership or control over a group?
i am wondering because i always thought i was too laid-back to be an 8w9, but i am now wondering if i am one.

I remember you said you thought you were 9w1 before. I thought you'd be 9w8 or 8w9. Isn't eight more about the core need to be self reliant? That doesn't necessarily make a person aggressive.

Eight
Basic Fear: Of being harmed or controlled by others
Basic Desire: To protect themselves (to be in control of their own life
and destiny)


Key Motivations: Want to be self-reliant, to prove their strength and resist weakness, to be important in their world, to dominate the environment, and to stay in control of their situation.

An eight would most definitely be assertive but not necessarily aggressive.
 

Kingfisher

full of love
Joined
May 24, 2009
Messages
1,685
MBTI Type
ESFP
Enneagram
9w8
An eight would most definitely be assertive but not necessarily aggressive.

i guess when i said 'aggressive' i meant extremely assertive and decisive, bold. to me aggressive is not a necesarily negative quality. i use it as a compliment a lot.
 

wolfy

awsm
Joined
Jun 30, 2008
Messages
12,251
i guess when i said 'aggressive' i meant extremely assertive and decisive, bold. to me aggressive is not a necesarily negative quality. i use it as a compliment a lot.

If you want to see the difference between 8w9 and 9w8 and aggressiveness think about the differences between Vito Corleone and Harry Callahan.
 

Magia

New member
Joined
Jun 17, 2010
Messages
2
MBTI Type
ENTJ
Enneagram
8w9
Another thing to explain the difference between 8w9 and 9w8 is to look at motivations.

An 8w9 will use assertiveness and sometimes challenge in order to achieve and maintain a quiet life, peace and harmony.

A 9w8 will enjoy feeling laid back and relaxed so long as they don't feel their autonomy is threatened, and will often use peacemaking and seeking a quiet life to support and build their sense of personal control and defend from threat.

Someone once described an 8w9 a bit like an alligator. Happy sauntering along in the cool water, not bothering anyone... unless provoked or hungry!
 

DiscoBiscuit

Meat Tornado
Joined
Apr 13, 2009
Messages
14,794
Enneagram
8w9
Here is a video of Colin Powell discussing what our generation needs to do to be leaders.


[YOUTUBE="zJTXrxRlST0"]Leadership[/YOUTUBE]
 

Little_Sticks

New member
Joined
Aug 19, 2009
Messages
1,358
Here is a video of Colin Powell discussing what our generation needs to do to be leaders.


[YOUTUBE="zJTXrxRlST0"]Leadership[/YOUTUBE]

Dafuq; he's not explaining shit about what this generation needs to be leaders. Lol, what is "our generation" refer to anyway? Generation Z?

He thinks using the internet and technology to create flash mobs is amazing. And calls himself an "old folk" and talks about "young folks" and says we shouldn't learn from him; but then he says to study history and learn from past mistakes. Contradiction; but okay and no shit?

The only thing he really says is that execution is more important than anything else and to change goals when execution fails. k, so at least he teaches common sense.

It is not comforting to know he is part of my country's Generals. He comes off like he's soft and stupid.

Got any better videos?
 

Elfboy

Certified Sausage Smoker
Joined
Nov 26, 2008
Messages
9,625
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ENFP
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sx/sp
[MENTION=6724]DiscoBiscuit[/MENTION]
8w9's are more likely to let anger build up within themselves, which may manifest in constant bitterness and harshness. Like 8w7's, they view conflict as a way of life, but do not enjoy it as much, since when they are in rebellion against the outside world, they are also in rebellion against a part of themselves that would rather do without the hassle and zone out. They are slow to conflict - they would often rather stand "en garde" and wait for their adversary to "cross the line" - but when they involve themselves in conflict, their hostility has a relentless, sado-masochistic quality to it. They willfully numb their tender feelings, and show a tough face to the world. 8w9's are conspicuously sensitive to the issue of personal boundaries - both their own and everyone else's. "Stay out of my business, and I'll stay out of yours," they will often say in a measured tone that conveys great respect for the other while making it subtly clear that they will not be crossed. When they lighten up, they can be intensely devoted to the protection of others, especially defenseless people whom they have affection for. However, trust does not come easily to them. "Every person's survival is his own business."

this just sounds like a confident, secure guy. I relate to it and I'm a 7w6
 

Azure Flame

Permabanned
Joined
Aug 26, 2010
Messages
2,317
MBTI Type
ESTP
Enneagram
8w7
I'd like to read more about the whole "looking harmless one day, looking threatening the next." This pisses me off, I have so many ass holes in my life coming up and messing with me, most of my effort in life has been devoted to looking big and scary so I can scare them off and be left alone. I suspect the sx/so has something to do with that as well.
 

Porsche

New member
Joined
Feb 16, 2013
Messages
67
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
9w8
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
8w9's are more likely to let anger build up within themselves, which may manifest in constant bitterness and harshness. Like 8w7's, they view conflict as a way of life, but do not enjoy it as much, since when they are in rebellion against the outside world, they are also in rebellion against a part of themselves that would rather do without the hassle and zone out. They are slow to conflict - they would often rather stand "en garde" and wait for their adversary to "cross the line" - but when they involve themselves in conflict, their hostility has a relentless, sado-masochistic quality to it. They willfully numb their tender feelings, and show a tough face to the world. 8w9's are conspicuously sensitive to the issue of personal boundaries - both their own and everyone else's. "Stay out of my business, and I'll stay out of yours," they will often say in a measured tone that conveys great respect for the other while making it subtly clear that they will not be crossed. When they lighten up, they can be intensely devoted to the protection of others, especially defenseless people whom they have affection for. However, trust does not come easily to them. "Every person's survival is his own business."

^This. I also relate to this especially about boundaries. As introverted sp 9 my line is always "Leave me alone, I won't bother you." Same also with slow to conflict. 8w9 and 9w8 are same with regards to being aggressive in defending in a very intense loud manner when the line is crossed. The difference is with reaction. 8w9 is quick to react to anger while 9w8 is slow to react. 9w8 might even forgive once, twice or thrice about the annoyance and irritation, but once a person do that very often, the 9's anger is very explosive that some things around might even break.
 

Porsche

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sp/sx
Also, 9w8 is not really interested in leadership, and the 8 is really natural at it. Leadership is too much work and responsibility, and it might overwhelm the 9.

Many times in my life, I've been told, "I thought you were nice?", "I thought you were class and sophisticated?", "I thought you were kind?" LOL

They're so surprised to see me brusque, rude, and swearing when I was angry because they were not used to see me in that state (in my usual passive nice demeanor)
 

Animal

So carnal it's spiritual
Joined
Mar 9, 2013
Messages
650
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SeFi
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4
The weird thing about being one of the leader types, is that people look at leaders as either the messiah or satan.

People seem to have a hard time seeing us as just people.

It's lonely at the top =/

This means you need to work to show vulnerability. When you're a "leader" you are often trying to work hard to be and appear strong. This can distance you from other people. To bring them back in, to get them to see you as a person, you need to show some of the flip side that is hidden: vulnerability.

This is poignant advice. Easier said than done, but very necessary. Unfortunately, when someone (like an 8) is used to hiding their vulnerability even from themselves, it can sometimes come out in the wrong ways - like anger fits for instance - and this can actually get in the way of good leadership. Learning to be vulnerable overall will make the process smoother and will make a person a stronger, and more beloved and respected leader because they're human. But showing vulnerability in the wrong ways, which will happen if it's repressed, can lead to being taken advantage of or compromising the project / leadership position.
 

Animal

So carnal it's spiritual
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Also, 9w8 is not really interested in leadership, and the 8 is really natural at it. Leadership is too much work and responsibility, and it might overwhelm the 9.

It does come naturally to me, and I take it one step at a time, but it overwhelms even me in retrospect. Sometimes I look back on a project and say "How the F did I do it.." and feel like I want to retreat and be by myself for a long time. I have a strong line to 5, I suppose. But then, I end up falling into another leadership position eventually, one way or another.
 

Animal

So carnal it's spiritual
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I remember you said you thought you were 9w1 before. I thought you'd be 9w8 or 8w9. Isn't eight more about the core need to be self reliant? That doesn't necessarily make a person aggressive.

An eight would most definitely be assertive but not necessarily aggressive.

I am curious to hear from other 8s whether this is the case. I think of myself as assertive rather than aggressive but I'm probably more aggressive in the eyes of others than I realize??? I would assume a person who is assertive at their best would have the potential to be aggressive at their worst, even without realizing it and chalking it up to being assertive?

Someone once described an 8w9 a bit like an alligator. Happy sauntering along in the cool water, not bothering anyone... unless provoked or hungry!
Lol.

I don't know how realistic that is. 8s love a challenge or a conflict. I don't go around picking fist-fights or starting arguments with people I care about for no reason, but I will certainly blow off steam on an internet forum or a political debate online. Are there 8s out there who are fine without any of this?


[MENTION=6724]DiscoBiscuit[/MENTION]
this just sounds like a confident, secure guy. I relate to it and I'm a 7w6
That's what I hate about most 8w9 descriptions. They don't touch on the ugly side until you read Naranjo. =/
 

Elfboy

Certified Sausage Smoker
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sx/sp
I am curious to hear from other 8s whether this is the case. I think of myself as assertive rather than aggressive but I'm probably more aggressive in the eyes of others than I realize??? I would assume a person who is assertive at their best would have the potential to be aggressive at their worst, even without realizing it and chalking it up to being assertive?
from what I've seen of you on personality cafe, you don't come off as aggressive at all. mostly people just get pissed at you and you calmly respond. some people tend to assume you're being aggressive when you're really not if you say something confidently and unapologetically, but they're stupid and worth ignoring.


Lol.
I don't know how realistic that is. 8s love a challenge or a conflict. I don't go around picking fist-fights or starting arguments with people I care about for no reason, but I will certainly blow off steam on an internet forum or a political debate online. Are there 8s out there who are fine without any of this?
LOL same here XD


That's what I hate about most 8w9 descriptions. They don't touch on the ugly side until you read Naranjo. =/
yeah. even though I relate to a few of type 8's defense mechanisms, the Naranjo 8 description was like "WTF?! I am DEFINITELY not that!" (though it described my best friend who is an 8w7 to a tee). descriptions that only focus on the positive leave much more room for mistyping (it's one reason 3s, 7s and 8s mistype as each other all the time). a good description will make your stomach sink a bit and think "damn it....that's me"
 

Animal

So carnal it's spiritual
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An eight would most definitely be assertive but not necessarily aggressive.
That makes more sense to me. Constant impulsive aggressiveness would not be an effective strategy for becoming a top CEO or an army general or any type of leader, which is an 8 stereotype. The stereotype that all 8s are constantly aggressive doesn't seem a necessary result of the motives, fears, and stereotypical personae associated with 8.

from what I've seen of you on personality cafe, you don't come off as aggressive at all. mostly people just get pissed at you and you calmly respond. some people tend to assume you're being aggressive when you're really not if you say something confidently and unapologetically, but they're stupid and worth ignoring.
Thank you =D :hug:

LOL same here XD
My father is a 7w8 and he LOVES his political debates online. He indulges his line to 1... lol.

yeah. even though I relate to a few of type 8's defense mechanisms, the Naranjo 8 description was like "WTF?! I am DEFINITELY not that!" (though it described my best friend who is an 8w7 to a tee). descriptions that only focus on the positive leave much more room for mistyping (it's one reason 3s, 7s and 8s mistype as each other all the time). a good description will make your stomach sink a bit and think "damn it....that's me"

When I read the 8 description - a few months ago - I felt sick to my stomach. (Still do!) I've written songs about local sociopaths because I felt like they were expressing something that was buried deep inside me, and reading that, it brought out really painful things. I had mistyped at 3, as you know, and reading the 3 description, I can relate to it a little bit (as I can to all of the desriptions) but I'm not really "hysterical" by any means. 7 was also a possibility for me, but reading that description, it described my father to a T - he is an absolute balls-out, classic 7. But the differences between our cores are apparent. I read through the whole book hoping to find another type and even convinced myself I was a 2 for a few days. But then, when I finally started to accept it and told my parents about it - my parents are psychiatrists and can understand these principles - they both separately were relieved that I finally acknowledged my sadism. I felt sick. That's how you know you found your type, I suppose. It's also part of why I felt raw about being attacked on PerC when the implications of my core are still sinking in. This site, so far, is *soooo much betteR* =D

I should add, though, that I've always seen my *best* potentials in Type 8, too. The leadership & magnanimity is clear. So, the typing experience wasn't all bad because I saw my best & worst in the type.
 

Entropic

New member
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Aug 20, 2012
Messages
1,200
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INTJ
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8w9
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
a good description will make your stomach sink a bit and think "damn it....that's me"

Agreed. Naranjo did that to me when I read about 5 and from then on I didn't have to look further. It was just so obvious and in my face. So clearly undeniable. I think finding your type should always be like that.
 
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