User Tag List

First 12

Results 11 to 17 of 17

  1. #11
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    4w3
    Socionics
    INFp
    Posts
    283

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by YourLocalJesus View Post



    Decide what and who you want to become, and start the process of getting there.
    Neo!

    I suppose that is where my problem lies; I have no idea what I want. I feel completely directionless, and I don't feel as though things will change. I'm uncomfortable being without a heading, but I can't confidently seem to point myself any which way.
    4w3 sx/sp? INFP, INFp

  2. #12
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    4w3
    Socionics
    INFp
    Posts
    283

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by speculative View Post
    The Four's direction of integration is toward One. You might read the description of a healthy type One to help you envision your destination
    Thank you! I am looking into it right now.
    4w3 sx/sp? INFP, INFp

  3. #13
    Shaman BlackCat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    MBTI
    ESFP
    Enneagram
    9w8 sx/sp
    Socionics
    SEE Fi
    Posts
    7,004

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TheEmeraldCanopy View Post
    Thank you for all of your help so far. I can't seem to shake the envy in me lately, and I know it's so pointless to feel this way. It only feeds the fire.
    It's kind of a terrible loop, isn't it? If a 4 sees their feelings as being useless and just hurting them they try to understand them more. Which leads them to seeing even more uselessness. Which makes them depressed.

    I don't really know what to tell you... maybe get to the root of why you feel the way that you do? That always helps to face the true reason you feel the way that you do. One thing to consider is, one! (bad pun) The four's point of integration is one. So perhaps you should determine what really matters. Is the subject of your envy really worthy of being envied? Does it matter that you envy them? Why do you envy them, what do you want that they have? If you can get it, get it. If you can't, get over it.

    Point being, maybe it would help if you got a feel for healthy 1's to get yourself back on track. Consider what a 1 might do? I find that considering those points but from a 3 perspective help me when I'm stressed out.

    Any advice I give you would be too 9ish to help. Like, go hang out with some friends, do something at home you like doing, have some sensory pleasures to forget about your problems.

    Man I sound like such an 8 up there... lol.
    () 9w8-3w4-7w6 tritype.

    sCueI (primary Inquisition)

  4. #14
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    MBTI
    Enfp
    Enneagram
    497 sx/so
    Socionics
    IEE Fi
    Posts
    14,658

    Default

    As a fellow 4:

    Take some time to yourself. Forget your obligations to society and the expectations they have. That includes family and friends. Tell them that you'll be busy a while. Take the time to self-reflect. They'll understand.

    Then: Read. Think. Read. Think.
    Roughly translated: take personality tests, read up on enneagram 4, read up on INFPs, read this forum for that matter, to see which types interact how with everyone.

    Next..process. Let all that info go through your mind, make patterns, compare it to what goes on in your real life, and see the big picture. Think about what intrigues you, what matters to you.

    Lastly: Judge. Bounce all of that off of your Fi. You know how when you think of something and you close your eyes, you can *feel* by the warm glow near your heart (yes, I'm aware of the mushy factor but it does really work like this), if it *feels* right? Don't *ever* question that feeling. That, right there, is who you are. If you get thoughts about 'what about this, and how will people think about that!', do NOT question the rightness of your judgement. What you *can* do, is refine the question you asked your Fi. Think about things, mull it over, and rephrase. Finetune. Find out what *exactly* in that original phrasing your Fi was responding to. And what was causing the conflict with your mind. Sometimes it'll be your fears, or the social ettiquette you were taught that gives that backchatter from your brain. Other times, it's because you haven't refined the value enough and it's entertwined with another value. Seperate the two.

    For example: I have the value that I like seeing people happy..so I try to please them. However, I also have the value that I want to be my unique person and only do what feels right to me. They clash often. Take each situation apart and see which one is actually valid in that particular situation and which one ranks higher. Don't let them get in each others way. They both have merit.

    Another good thing to do is reminisce about the things you react strongly to. Figure out *why* that is. Usually there's either a strong value there that you aren't conscious of, or, you've been hurt/scared/traumatized by a previous event. If the former, find a way to tweak it so you can respond properly to that value, if the latter, mull it over and analyze the situation, so you know how to respond without overreacting to it the next time.

    After all of this, you'll probably have a *ton* more questions. So press repeat. Read once more, to gain answers, to process and to figure out who *you* are and what is important to *you*

    One more thing: other people are interesting to spark your imagination, to learn from, to enrich your own pov. But don't EVER let another person tell you who you are. Part of being a 4 is carving out your own unique path. And even more: you should do so. You're entitled to. No, it's not selfish. It can appear selfish if poorly executed, is all. Refine your methods..don't suppress who you are though

    Good luck!

    Edit:

    Specifically geared towards dealing with Envy:

    I personally hold dear to see people happy. I use that value to disable envy. Or rather, turn it less poisonous. The second I feel envious about something, I disable it, coz I hate feeling that way. And I do so, by reminding myself to look at those people instead of myself. It's great to see them that happy with what they have, that they were so fortunate to have [Insert thing I'm envious of] in their lives. And I use their example to find inspiration for myself on how to obtain it and finetune it so it's what *I* need. Often, getting what they have is not perfect for me. I need the me-version. And they spark ideas on how to get there

    As said before, if you feel strongly about certain things, be curious about yourself. Wonder *why* that is. Why is it that makes you feel so strongly. And see if perhaps you can finetune the feeling, the reason, and the reaction. It'll help you adapt your responses to become the person you wanna be. Ask yourself, if you saw this response in someone else to that particular situation, if you could understand it and find it appropriate. It'll help you gauge what you would ideally like to be like. Don't beat yourself up if you aren't able to adjust it immediately, keep going over it, finetuning it, you'll get there eventually
    ★ڿڰۣ✿ℒoѵℯ✿ڿڰۣ★





    "Harm none, do as ye will”

  5. #15
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    4w3
    Socionics
    INFp
    Posts
    283

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackCat View Post
    It's kind of a terrible loop, isn't it? If a 4 sees their feelings as being useless and just hurting them they try to understand them more. Which leads them to seeing even more uselessness. Which makes them depressed.

    I don't really know what to tell you... maybe get to the root of why you feel the way that you do? That always helps to face the true reason you feel the way that you do. One thing to consider is, one! (bad pun) The four's point of integration is one. So perhaps you should determine what really matters. Is the subject of your envy really worthy of being envied? Does it matter that you envy them? Why do you envy them, what do you want that they have? If you can get it, get it. If you can't, get over it.

    Point being, maybe it would help if you got a feel for healthy 1's to get yourself back on track. Consider what a 1 might do? I find that considering those points but from a 3 perspective help me when I'm stressed out.

    Any advice I give you would be too 9ish to help. Like, go hang out with some friends, do something at home you like doing, have some sensory pleasures to forget about your problems.

    Man I sound like such an 8 up there... lol.
    lolz BLACKCAT HAS BECOME AN 8!!! XD

    Thank you so much for reading and offering your thoughts, Blackcat! Very helpful. I have a friend who is a One, and I can definitely see when the Oneness starts to appear within myself. While it can be very difficult to jump start myself into a routine, it feels so much better when I am staying organized and getting things done, being productive.

    So... does the One integrate towards Seven? *runs off to read more about Healthy Ones*
    4w3 sx/sp? INFP, INFp

  6. #16
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    4w3
    Socionics
    INFp
    Posts
    283

    Default

    Thank you for the great reply, Satine! This is so helpful.

    Quote Originally Posted by Satine View Post

    For example: I have the value that I like seeing people happy..so I try to please them. However, I also have the value that I want to be my unique person and only do what feels right to me. They clash often. Take each situation apart and see which one is actually valid in that particular situation and which one ranks higher. Don't let them get in each others way. They both have merit.
    I know you already provided an example, but what kind of things make you choose in favor of the unique you versus your friends or vice versa? What makes your decisions valid to you? Is it another value that decides over these two values?

    Quote Originally Posted by Satine View Post

    Another good thing to do is reminisce about the things you react strongly to. Figure out *why* that is. Usually there's either a strong value there that you aren't conscious of, or, you've been hurt/scared/traumatized by a previous event. If the former, find a way to tweak it so you can respond properly to that value, if the latter, mull it over and analyze the situation, so you know how to respond without overreacting to it the next time.

    After all of this, you'll probably have a *ton* more questions. So press repeat. Read once more, to gain answers, to process and to figure out who *you* are and what is important to *you*

    One more thing: other people are interesting to spark your imagination, to learn from, to enrich your own pov. But don't EVER let another person tell you who you are. Part of being a 4 is carving out your own unique path. And even more: you should do so. You're entitled to. No, it's not selfish. It can appear selfish if poorly executed, is all. Refine your methods..don't suppress who you are though

    Good luck!
    So do you mean that I should never let someone else choose who I will be, or what I want to do?

    I think you make a lot of good points. Sometimes I start to question or resent the things that I like, or agree with, if someone around me whose opinions I closely value does not also like those things. Usually it is simpler things like styles of clothing or movie taste and not on serious topics. Not staying true to those things that I like can make me feel incredibly fake or empty (as though I'm not truly letting my self expression reach its full potential), but if someone doesn't like something I choose, I may suddenly turn a lot of my attention over to their personal taste and reject a lot of my own in the moment, only to suffer buyer's remorse or feel fake later for not supporting my opinion more strongly.

    I may later look back upon the object or moment in question (whatever it is) with fostered resentment and have to force myself to like it if it's something I purchased. I don't know if it's more a mechanism to avoid conflict at the time, or if I feel as though maybe my taste is silly when someone else evaluates it.

    I guess I need to realize I have both a need for praise and a need for individuality, and that I need to respect both parts if I want to obtain any kind of harmony and satisfaction within my own decisions. I guess I need to somehow learn to accept that not everyone is going to like me or the things that I like, and that I can still find people who will share and respect my tastes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Satine View Post
    Specifically geared towards dealing with Envy:

    I personally hold dear to see people happy. I use that value to disable envy. Or rather, turn it less poisonous. The second I feel envious about something, I disable it, coz I hate feeling that way. And I do so, by reminding myself to look at those people instead of myself. It's great to see them that happy with what they have, that they were so fortunate to have [Insert thing I'm envious of] in their lives. And I use their example to find inspiration for myself on how to obtain it and finetune it so it's what *I* need. Often, getting what they have is not perfect for me. I need the me-version. And they spark ideas on how to get there
    This is really helpful advice, Satine. Thank you so much for providing such in depth answers. You are so right; the moments where I have started to feel truly happy for others, life becomes so much more beautiful and inspiring and worlds less lonely.

    I think someone else mentioned earlier in this thread as well (I apologize if it was perhaps you, and I'm not giving you proper credit, my brain is foggy at the moment) that sometimes those things you are jealous of really wouldn't be able to work out for you or your circumstances anyways. That even if you had the thing you feel is missing in your life, you would still find something else to envy. BlackCat also mentioned if the thing you envy is obtainable, to try and achieve it in your own life.

    Quote Originally Posted by Satine View Post
    As said before, if you feel strongly about certain things, be curious about yourself. Wonder *why* that is. Why is it that makes you feel so strongly. And see if perhaps you can finetune the feeling, the reason, and the reaction. It'll help you adapt your responses to become the person you wanna be. Ask yourself, if you saw this response in someone else to that particular situation, if you could understand it and find it appropriate. It'll help you gauge what you would ideally like to be like. Don't beat yourself up if you aren't able to adjust it immediately, keep going over it, finetuning it, you'll get there eventually
    Sometimes it is a huge hurdle to push myself to this point; to actively yell "STOP IT!" when I know how easy it is to just let the cycle stay on repeat.

    If I let my envious or emotional thoughts fester for too long without evaluation, they easily just worsen dramatically and feed off of each other; I'll end up going to bed incredibly resentful, hopeless, jealous, angry and sad.

    If I can, amidst this emotional storm, just be alone, be somewhere that I can talk out loud to myself, I can usually realign my thinking and take a lot of the emotional sting out of many of my problems, which is so helpful in getting over them. Just dissecting why I feel the way I do helps to put things into perspective for me, and this is INCREDIBLY helpful!

    Anyways, thank you again so, so much for the lengthy and well thought out reply, Satine!!! It was so useful and helpful to hear the perspective of a fellow Four. I really appreciate it.
    4w3 sx/sp? INFP, INFp

  7. #17
    Junior Member four's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    4x3
    Posts
    28

    Default

    Mindfulness, meditation, breathing. This has saved me. In general, practice. Practice being more grounded, more aware of surroundings. Becoming aware of mind/emotion habits, label them every time you can, "there's that good old mind habit again". It's strange to say, but I've had to learn not to "trust" my emotions. Emotions are an important source of information but so is bodily information and logic/head information. There's gotta be balance!

Similar Threads

  1. Job advice for a new enfj anyone?
    By dee in forum Academics and Careers
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 12-15-2008, 07:21 AM
  2. [MBTItm] Advice for my relationship with my son
    By vontrapped in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 11-10-2008, 01:21 PM
  3. Advice for soon-to-be undergraduate students.
    By Bear Warp in forum Academics and Careers
    Replies: 32
    Last Post: 06-29-2008, 09:20 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO