[Type 4] 4 is the loneliest number..

[Misty_Mountain_Rose]

You know... the more I try to connect with people and use that inherent 4 compassion for pain, the more I find that I'm not alone. Every time I reach out, I find another person carrying their own set of problems, and I've found that I'm a very good listener and 'guidance' councellor. (I use the term loosely).

All my life I've seen people change their lives time and time again because of talks that we had where I helped them and held their hand while they dug into the depths of their OWN feelings. What I can seem to do naturally for myself, others often don't know how to do. I know that those people are happier than they were and I'm proud that I could help them. I don't offer advise to them to think a certain way or to make decisions... but rather help them understand where their core problem is.

I should have been a therapist I think.

 

[The Outsider]

I hate that Jonny Depp is a 4w5. I don't want to be connected with him, because everyone loves him and he's weird. He's not sexy. He's skinny. I'm weird and most people don't love me.

Too bad he's also an INFP.

 

[briochick]

Too bad he's also an INFP.

lol, just my luck, isn't it.

 

[Snuggletron]

He's not sexy. He's skinny.
;-p

I'm skinny. Do you want to fight?

 

[briochick]

I'm skinny. Do you want to fight?

lol, I don't want to fight anyone.

 

[SillySapienne]

My fellow 4s, question:

How many of you are masochists?

I'm curious to know if there is some type of correlation, here.

 

[speculative]

My fellow 4s, question:

How many of you are masochists?

I'm curious to know if there is some type of correlation, here.

I think we need to be clear on the definition of "masochist" here, as it can mean different things that may not be related. For example:

1. Psychiatry. the condition in which sexual gratification depends on suffering, physical pain, and humiliation.
2. gratification gained from pain, deprivation, degradation, etc., inflicted or imposed on oneself, either as a result of one's own actions or the actions of others, esp. the tendency to seek this form of gratification.
3. the act of turning one's destructive tendencies inward or upon oneself.
4. the tendency to find pleasure in self-denial, submissiveness, etc.

I would say I have masochistic tendencies to a certain degree based on definition #3, but not so much the others. This can manifest itself in the drama of suffering to create a unique identify...

 

[SillySapienne]

#3 resonates with me the most, as well.

 

[Kra]

#3 used to apply, but I've reigned that in as I've grown older.

To answer your question, I'm a 4w5 who is not a masochist.

 

[WoodsWoman]

Due to BlackCat's diligence in explaining enneagram stuff I consider myself to be a 4w5 sp/sx - I'm still trying to see what-in-all it's going to teach me.

 

[speculative]

Enneathought for the Day (Brought to you by the Enneagram Institute):

Consider how you can manipulate others by being temperamental and making others "walk on eggshells." Is this tendency operating in you today? (The Wisdom of the Enneagram, 81)

I read this after I got back from an appointment this morning. This was definitely me. I was set on doing something a certain way this morning, and when that wasn't the group consensus I could feel myself getting upset, though I didn't want to. I was able to turn things around, but was amazed at how close to home this one hit this morning.

Fellow 4s, do you have a temper, or get upset at things? If so, have you noticed that it is to affect an outcome/change people's thinking in a situation? This shed some new light on a portion of my behavior that I am working on.

 

[demimondaine]

#3 resonates with me the most, as well.

+1, though the term might apply MILDLY in certain arenas in my life ..


but jokes aside, i wonder if there's a connection there.

 

[speculative]

Enneagram Institute's Enneathought of the Day:

As a Four, striving to express yourself is important to you. But why? What's so important about expressing yourself? Think about this today.

I have something on my mind, and was thinking forward into the future conversations of the day. There's nothing I can do about this thing on my mind, until the next step in the process. Talking about it would not be helpful to those I was communicating with. So, if I communicate about it, really I think what I would be doing is using it to attract a "rescuer." As a 4, I need to remember that I do not need rescuing, and that I can rescue myself by moving to 1...

What was important about expressing myself in this post, was to try to move forward in my growth, and share the E-thought for today so that other 4s might see it and think on it and grow as well. So, that seems like a valid reason for expression...

 

[speculative]

New Information on Type 2 as it Relates to Fours

I know that our direction of integration is 1, and the direction of disintegration is 2. This has always made sense to me, based on the healthy/unhealthy descriptions of each type. However, today's Enneathought contained some information that I had not heard before (or had not noticed) regarding type 2; namely, that we need to learn from the healthy levels of 2. I would not have guessed this, since our direction of integration is 1.

The "missing piece" is the last quality of our psyche that we need for dissolving the habitual identity that we have had. As a Four, you most need to learn from the healthy Levels of Two to love yourself and others unconditionally. This finally dissolves your typical self-doubt and feelings of shame. Think about this today. (Understanding the Enneagram, 321)

The healthy levels of two are described as:

Healthy Levels

Level 1 (At Their Best): Become deeply unselfish, humble, and altruistic: giving unconditional love to self and others. Feel it is a privilege to be in the lives of others.

Level 2: Empathetic, compassionate, feeling for others. Caring and concerned about their needs. Thoughtful, warm-hearted, forgiving and sincere.

Level 3: Encouraging and appreciative, able to see the good in others. Service is important, but takes care of self too: they are nurturing, generous, and giving—a truly loving person.

2 - Enneagram Type Two: The Helper

So, which is it: do we move toward 1, or 2? It seems like a good idea to exhibit the healthy levels of all 9 types, so does this information conflict with the direction of integration to 1 or simply compliment it?

 

[souffle]

I went to the cinemas and watched Where the Wild Things Are, and spent alot of the movie crying my eyes out. Definite one to go watch, I wouldn't be surprised if it struck a very personal chord with other lonely 4s.

 

[FeatheredFrenzy]

I wanted to share this work of art by Duane Michals with you guys.

It reads:

This photograph is my proof. There was that afternoon when things were still good between us, and she embraced me. And we were so happy. It did happen. She did love me. Look, see for yourself!

 

[SillySapienne]

I wanted to share this work of art by Duane Michals with you guys.

It reads:

This photograph is my proof. There was that afternoon when things were still good between us, and she embraced me. And we were so happy. It did happen. She did love me. Look, see for yourself!

Oh, wow!!!

 

[SillySapienne]

YouTube - Nine Inch Nails - Down In It

Kinda like a cloud I was up way up in the sky and I was feeling some feelings you wouldn't believe
Sometimes I can't believe them myself and I decided I was never coming down
Just then a tiny little dot caught my eye it was just about too small to see
But I watched it way too long and that dot was pulling me down

I was up above it
Now I'm down in it

Well shut up so what what does it matter now
I was swimming in the haze now I crawl on the ground
And everything I never liked about you is kind of seeping into me
Try to laugh about it now but isn't it funny how everything works out
("I guess the joke's on me," she said)

I was up above it
Now I'm down in it

I used to be so big and strong
I used to know my right from wrong
I used to never be afraid
I used to be somebody
I used to have something inside
Now just this hole that's open wide
I used to want it all
I used to be somebody

I'll cross my heart and hope to die but the needle's already in my eye
And all the world's weight is on my back and I don't even know why
And what I used to think was me is just a fading memory
I looked him right in the eye and said "goodbye"

I was up above it
Now I'm down in it

Feeling sentimental, the perpetual falling of an angel who doesn't want to be, who never chose to be....

 

[run]

...literally reading about the horrific consequences of cultural relativism while my ENTJ roommates announce their justification of using the word "retarded" as an insult.

 

[paradox fox]

I am a gigantic freak, a walking contradiction, but it's nice to know I'm not the only one.
I've written pages upon pages about the paradox of being me. They've lived most of their life in a turquoise binder, and now they're beginning to see the light of day. Here are a few thoughts:
Most of my friends, in one way or another, see me as a mystery. It seems people are attracted to me because of the mystery. It's like a puzzle to them. My fear is that once people think they've solved the mystery, they're done with me. Why watch a mystery movie when you already know the ending?
The truth is, I can see myself for all that I am, and I'm not a mystery. Just a paradox. All these contradictions juxtaposed into a breathing human being. How is it possible I can even exist? But here I am.
Think of a pomegranate. Look at its luscious red skin, its unique shape. Take a knife to it and you have a bleeding mess. Or peel off its layers gently with your fingers, and you'll find bruised parts and bitterness lying just below the surface. But don't lose your patience now. The best parts are vivid, glowing, ripe for the eating, lost in protective shells. Keep working through those layers. You are in for a special treat.
Thanks for existing, my pomegranate Fours.