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  1. #61
    Senior Member Lexlike's Avatar
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    Hello , i m a 5w 4 too

    Loneliness is a big factor in my life. I think a 4 is a person who is concerened about people in some way etc. but prefers to be alone.
    Music is a big part of my life too, as i enjoy to think and to dream.
    It seems that I can hardly enjoy moments, because I was never satisfied with my situation. I kind of learned to controll this more...
    Feelings and love are quiet indifferent to me, but it is getting better as i m growing up, I experienced always love but they were always kind of imaginative, nowadays its different as i m not that shy anymore, but still facing actually more problems because it never really functions.
    Life often seems to me like a walk, which I walk alone but its not that I like or hate it that way.
    I...74%
    N...66%
    F... 62%
    P... 72%
    Ti- Ne- Si- Fe
    Te- Ni-Fi- Se
    Ennegramm: 4w5
    Intrapersonal with Logical- Mathemathical I.
    Cassification: brunette East- baltid^^

  2. #62
    Senior Member aguanile's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainChick View Post
    If you feel like a pathological freak, but also embrace and foster your freakiness, you are probably a four.

    If you view life through your heart, you are probably a four.

    My heart needs to bleed in order for me to feel alive.

    I am attracted to suffering and sadness.

    Give me depth or give me death, basically.

    It isn't that I hate my 4-ness, it just gets old sometimes.

    Like feelings of what should have been strictly adolescent alienation have yet to cease.
    CC, I totally understand everything that you have said here. I am a 4 and have always felt this way.

    I have always been attracted to suffering and sadness. I don't tell many of my friends this as people get a little freaked out by it. For instance, I LOVE to cry. It makes me feel connected to life. That (controlled) emotional pain, that intensity that I feel makes me feel alive...when I listen to a song, see a painting, watch a movie or go to the theater. I don't feel alive unless I am feeling something.

    I like to think that I think with my head, that I am logical, but when I am honest, some of the biggest decisions that I have made in my life have been emotional ones. I am only realizing now that I equate my emotional decisions with logical ones. Only in hindsight have I realized hat often they weren't logical at all.

    And as far as feelings of alienation go...you have so hit the nail on the head by callign it "adolescent alienation." I was riding the bus the other day looking at people and wondering how they can seem to feel so comfortable with themselves. I so admire people that are confident no matter who they're with or where they are.

    The funny thing is, people don't believe that I feel so different. I have been called "falsely modest" or conceited (because I feel awkward and don't talk) which people presume to mean that I think I am better than them which is the exact opposite of how I feel most of the time. If they only knew how alien I felt. People would never believe that I am basically and emotional open wound. (and the funny thing is, I had a great childhood).

  3. #63
    Once Was Synarch's Avatar
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    Pain has more reality than pleasure. There is more to feel in pain.
    "Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave."

  4. #64
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    I honestly think 9 and 5 are just as lonely as 4, if not more.

    4,5, and 9 are all withdrawn types. Maybe 4s actually consciously feel the loneliness more than 5s or 9s (because they are constantly in touch with their own feelings), but I really doubt they're the most lonely beneath the surface.

  5. #65
    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
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    I'm a four also.

    Quote Originally Posted by Misty_Mountain_Rose View Post
    ...
    Being a 4 is difficult. Its like having a deep, deep craving for contact, for someone to reaaaallly understand me... but doubting that anyone ever will. I'm afraid that if someone actually sees the crazy chaos that goes on inside of me they'll freak out and run away, away, away. That they won't be able to understand my need to delve as deeply into the hurt as I can before I can make sense of it and come to terms with it... and that I may sometimes revisit the pain just to make sure that my interpretation of it hasn't changed since last time we visited together.

    I am a 4, and I am glad that I feel all that I feel. I just wish that I didn't feel so... lonely.
    Exactly.

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainChick View Post
    ...
    ...there have even been times when people, seemingly random people, have looked me straight in the eye and have seen me, and when this happens my instinct is to avert my eyes, for some reason.

    Though I want so badly to be seen, the thought of it actually happening is kind of scary.

    Intimacy, which is connecting/connection to the extreme is all that I really want, yet...yet, I think I may have problems with intimacy?!!?

    Maybe when you spend a lifetime feeling so ungraspably misunderstood you tend to believe that the prospect of ever truly being understood is an unlikely one, and then you become lazy, or jaded and just accept your aloneness.

    Or am I rationalizing?

    Thoughts?
    Most of the time, I accept my aloneness, but sometimes I go searching for understanding.

    Quote Originally Posted by Synarch View Post
    Pain has more reality than pleasure. There is more to feel in pain.
    I've always thought so.


    The Enneagram Type Test
    FOURS: Fours are romantic DREAMERS motivated by a desire to understand and express their deepest feelings. These sensitive individualists want to create something beautiful and unique that will communicate their authentic feelings. They want to feel special but often feel different and estranged from others. They long for emotional connection and can become very depressed when feeling isolated. They do everything they can to avoid: being rejected, abandoned or seen as ordinary. Unconscious focus of attention: whats missing, lacking or unavailable; finding true love; yearning and fantasizing about the ideal (relationship, job, self, etc.).
    Healthy Fours are imaginative, sensitive, intuitive, creative, and compassionate. They are introspective, self-aware, and in touch with the hidden depths of human nature.
    Unhealthy Fours can be self-absorbed, hypersensitive, impractical, self-conscious, moody, depressed, and envious of those who seem more fulfilled than they are.
    I consider myself a sensitive person with powerful feelings and a rich, creative imagination. I feel (or have felt in the past) as though I am not like other people and nobody really understands me. Thats because I seek depth, meaning, and authenticity of feeling and self-expression in my life. Beauty, love, sorrow, and pain touch me deeply. I am unusually self-aware and intuitive, sometimes painfully so. I am very sensitive to critical remarks and often feel hurt at the tiniest slight. My ideals are very important to me and I wont compromise them. I cant stand insincerity and lack of integrity in others; I try to be as authentic and real as I possibly can. I dont like this about myself, but I have a habit (or used to) of focusing on whats wrong with me rather than whats right. I am a romantic at heart and have spent years longing (or used to) for the great love of my life to come along. Although the quest for emotional connection has been with me all my life I often experience (or used to) a poignant inner sense of disconnection and estrangement from others. This has led to periods of loneliness, melancholy and depression. The at my best and at my worst columns below do, have, or could describe me quite well.
    At my best I am:..... At my worst I am:
    Imaginative..... Depressed and disconnected from the world
    Attuned to feelings (mine and others)..... Painfully Self-Conscious
    Empathic (especially with suffering)..... Hypersensitive
    Exceptionally appreciative of beauty..... Self-Absorbed
    Idealistic..... Longing for emotional connection
    Compassionate..... Moody and often brood
    Sensitive..... Moralistic
    Consistent in action despite intense feelings..... Temperamental
    Authentic..... Envious of others
    Intuitive..... Focusing on whats missing in my life
    Creative (often in art, theater, dance, music, etc.)..... Withdrawn
    Individualistic..... Overly Emotional
    Self-Revealing (especially of deeper feelings)..... Obsessed with finding my soul mate
    Romantic..... Aloof and standoffish
    Self-Aware..... Plagued with feeling like Im different
    Passionate..... Reckless and dauntless
    Expressive..... Melodramatic and theatrical
    Deep and introspective..... Decadent and self-indulgent
    Blessed by all experiences, even the painful ones..... Disdainful
    Types 2, 3, and 4 have issues with Self-image. These are Heart (feeling) types. They are primarily concerned with how they come across to others and what others think of them. As children they wanted ATTENTION to be seen and validated by their caretakers. They developed a false self-image to compensate for not feeling valued or loved for who they really were. When we are in contact with our Essential Nature we feel loved and valued. In the average to unhealthy range, all three of these types lack a true love of self so they present an image to others in an attempt to feel valuable. Each of these types does this in a different way. The fundamental underlying emotion (mostly unconscious) of these types because of the loss of contact with Source Energy is SHAME.
    Type 4, often called The Individualist or The Romantic Dreamer. Their self-image is presented inwardly to themselves. By contrast, Fours focus their attention inwardly on an idealized, romanticized self-image of who they would like to be. But they can never quite measure up to their ideal fantasy self and thus suffer from feelings of inadequacy and melancholy. They attempt to avoid underlying feelings of SHAME by focusing on how unique, special and different they are from others. As a result of wanting to be unlike anyone else, they often feel estranged and disconnected from others. They dont want life to be drab or ordinary so they focus on their creativity and individuality as a way of dealing with their shameful feelings. Fours are the type most likely to succumb to feelings of inadequacy.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evan View Post
    I honestly think 9 and 5 are just as lonely as 4, if not more.

    4,5, and 9 are all withdrawn types. Maybe 4s actually consciously feel the loneliness more than 5s or 9s (because they are constantly in touch with their own feelings), but I really doubt they're the most lonely beneath the surface.
    9s are withdrawn types, but unlike the 4 or 5, they withdraw away from their own feelings and thoughts, seeking inner peace, 4s and 5s withdraw away from the world into their own feelings and thoughts, respectively.

    9s mostly identify with others and can therefore be unaware of their own sense of self -- they typically ignore their own thoughts, feelings, and aggression for fear of upsetting their sense of inner balance.

    In the chronic stage, they have aggression, but are completely unaware of it -- hence their passive-aggressive tendencies.

  7. #67
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uberfuhrer View Post
    9s are withdrawn types, but unlike the 4 or 5, they withdraw away from their own feelings and thoughts, seeking inner peace.

    9s mostly identify with others and can therefore be unaware of their own sense of self -- they typically ignore their own thoughts, feelings, and aggression for fear of upsetting their inner balance.
    9s withdraw from people and withdraw from themselves. They have zero people they're around all the time, which is a lot less than one...

    I identify with others and surround myself with people, but I still feel lonely when I'm around them most of the time.

  8. #68
    Member Lozzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainChick
    Love is what keeps us together, a salve of sorts, an existential glue.
    haha, existential glue, awesome! I enjoy sticking to people very much; life without metaphorical adhesives would definitely be rubbish.

    Reading some of this thread has made me realise I'm almost definitely a 4, maybe with a 3 wing. That craving for authenticity, and the sometimes astoundingly emotional internal reaction to events are all to familiar. There's this line from a Bright Eyes song: "And when I press the keys, it all gets reversed, the sound of loneliness makes me happier." Like, I find depressing songs and tragic films make me feel so much more alive, anyone else the same? I doubt most my friends realise what an emotional carwreck I am sometimes to be honest, but I guess it's not really kosher to show it on the outside. Especially being a bloke, we're supposed to be tough 'n that.
    We don't need reason and we don't need logic, 'cause we've got feeling and we're damn proud of it!

    Speeding Motorcycle - Daniel Johnston

  9. #69
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    I dunno, sometimes I think I might be a 3.

    Some people at the Enneagram Institute forums back when I was posting there said I was a 6w5 or 5w6.

  10. #70
    Senior Member Erudur's Avatar
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    I don't really have a good handle on the enneagram types. I took the Riso version of the test two times separated by a couple years and had a highest score on the 1. Both times I scored high on the 4 also. The early test had close scores for 5 and 3 along with the 4. The later test had a high score on 8 along with the 4. I think the 8 sounds closest, but doesn't resonate real well either.

    Its all too vague for me to make much out of it. Any enneagram experts out there have some tips for figuring it all out?

    Sorry to steal all the angst and thunder from you 4s out there.

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