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Thread: Sexual 4s

  1. #1

    Default Sexual 4s

    I feel like there is a lot of bias about sx 4s and sx first in general. I've been having trouble relating to those and I used to type as so first for that reason, but when I look at the core of sx fixation it seems to be more true than the so one.
    I wonder how other sexual 4s feel about the description of this type. How much do you relate? How much do you agree/disagree with it? The same question for other sx types.

    In my understanding sexual instinct is all about intimacy, it doesn't have to be a sexual intimacy, it can be emotional, ideological, spiritual etc. Sx types are hyper aware of the energy that they share with people, how good/bad it is, how much the person/object makes them feel, what it makes them feel and how much they wish to get closer to it or further away from it. So it's all about attraction vs. repultion from the object or the person they deal with. Again it doesn't have be anythin physical.
    Their emotional energy is intense and focused. Instead of relating to everyone, they chose someone or something special, that gives them the feeling of intensity they long to feel. They chose carefully who that will be and share their energy with that uniqe persona or an object, instead of spreading it everywhere like so people do.

    I think this is about everything that needs to be said about sexual types. Everything else is nonsense. Desciprtion that tell you that they are more active, assertive or dominant than other types are wrong. I mean... what does have your own activity have to do with it? I just see no point in connecting it. Jealousy, competetiveness, envy etc... wrong again imo, not an sx thing.

    Would anyone agree?

  2. #2
    Honeyed Water thoughtlost's Avatar
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    I agree that the sexual variant isn't well understood. It places too much emphasis on the sphere of romance (jealousy and possessiveness within a relationship) ...which is not what the variant is about. Any variant can be jealous/possessive in a relationship or even want to be in a passionate romance-blah-blah.

    Your description of SX actually sounds like Fi in socionics. But at the same time, I don't disagree with you. I agree that it has nothing to do with being active/dominant or competitive (Unless you're a 3 or something). I think sexual dominants can be more in touch with their feelings (I consider desire a feeling ...so maybe that is why they call sx e4s lustful??? I know a social 4 and she tends to minimize her needs around others and doesn't feel like she has much internal drive like "other people" seem to have ...you know when you're a social 4 when you keep on referencing what societal norms are and that you can't be normal like everyone else). A sexual 4 isn't really considered too much (maybe a little?? on being a hipster and simply more focused on filling the void of not feeling loved (I guess??)

    A sexual 9 is more in touch with their lack of identity (and the emotions it stirs withing them). and a sexual 2 is more in touch with the idea of being loved/desired.

    I do think that envy/jealousy can be a part of sx, though, but it isn't the core. so for a sx 9, they can be so in touch with their lack of personal identity that anything that touches upon that can ignite powerful, negative emotions ...and envy and jealousy can be a couple of those emotions.

    I'll have to think more about the other types, but that's my understanding so far.

    edit:: OOOHHHHH and a sexual dominant variant doesn't necessarily mean that you only want one person to share feelings with (again, this is where people mistype because they think that if you prefer one-to-one interactions, then you're sx dominant). SX-dom (to me) just means that you're deeply in touch/driven by your core type's trap in an emotional way.
    You are so arbitrary.
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  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by thoughtlost View Post
    edit:: OOOHHHHH and a sexual dominant variant doesn't necessarily mean that you only want one person to share feelings with (again, this is where people mistype because they think that if you prefer one-to-one interactions, then you're sx dominant). SX-dom (to me) just means that you're deeply in touch/driven by your core type's trap in an emotional way.
    I'd disagree with this... Sx is about intimacy. I see instinctual variants as directions of energy. Energy of an sp goes inward, on the self, survivor, interior, sx energy is intense, it goes outside but doesn't spread further than the object of intimacy, so energy is the widest and spreads the most to the exterior, to others, goes beyond the self is the most out there of all three.

  4. #4
    FRACTALICIOUS phobik's Avatar
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    Undisciplined Starry's Avatar
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    ye no
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  6. #6
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    The sexual instinct on its own will likely be very relatable to most fours. The sx four is like an extreme version of the issues an sx type faces. It certainly may be related to intimacy (although I agree with the idea that self-preservation is about intimacy also...because you can't be intimate with others if you aren't in touch with your own interior, a frustration self-pres last types may face), but when given primary focus, it is distorted. It's also about attraction (which yes, overlaps with some of the social instinct), which is why all sexual types can focus on being beautiful and/or strong, which is exemplified most with 6s or 3s. They also tend to be fickle, IMO, as they may like the initial high from connecting with or attracting someone, and so they may struggle with true intimacy which is often built over time and not constantly exciting.

    Sexual fours are often presented as being very competitive, but in my observation, fours aren't typically the most outwardly competitive type regardless of their instinctual stacking. So it has to be viewed more abstractedly, IMO. If you compete, there is a sense of scarcity, a sense of "if you win, then I lose", etc. All of this is about the four's sense of something missing, particularly something within themselves that keeps them from...whatever it is they think will complete them, which is often related to the instincts. The problem is I've yet to meet a four who DOESNT have some savior fantasy, of healing via a relationship, etc. Or at least I haven't met one who isn't fixated on romantic intimacy as the path to salvation at some point in their life.

    So what's the difference between a sexual four and any four who is probably fixated on intimate connections and their inner lack that is preventing them from feeling significant to someone?
    Well, the competitive aspect gets heightened. In sexual fours this is often said to lead to hatefulness. Basically the sexual four is the angriest, most spiteful four. The thing is, it's probably largely unconscious for them. Sometimes it may be directed at something unrelated, just generalized anger, or it may be focused on a particular person. So in the abstract they place their own significance in competition with that of others and are angry when not responded to as they feel they should be.

    I've heard that sexual fours may even feel resentment towards the one they want to be intimate with, aka, they put themselves in competition with them. They may put the other on such a pedestal that they almost come to resent them, because they feel lesser in comparison. Then they may try to make that person feel less significant, out of spite.

    Personally when it came it my own sexual instinct, the envy aspect is rather yucky for me to admit. I have always scorned competitive attitudes as being beneath me. However, looking back I can see how I experienced the connections of others as some kind of loss for myself. If my good friend made another friend, it was like I was not as much her friend now. There is a hyper focus on exclusivity perhaps to a degree that it stems from jealousy and insecurity. I had a bit of sibling rivalry with my sister. Basically I wanted to be the favorite with certain individuals but unlike social fours, I had no concern over a wider popularity, not even from a dismissive or critical stance. I identify as self-pres first though, which may be why I found it harder to see this in myself.

    Although again I see that desire to be the favorite with most fours and even most image types. Supposedly sx fours actually lash out when they aren't the favorite, whereas an sp four may silently endure (patiently waiting out the other person's inevitable screw up and plodding along as the extraordinary individual who someday will be rightfully acknowledged as such) and a so four may complain with an elitist attitude (ugh, this person is mundane; why others so fascinated by them?). The lashing out of the sexual four often sabotages them, which is a theme for all fours being the masochistic type. The endurance of the self-pres four can end up prolonging the undesirable state instead of bringing reward for their patience and the complaining or elitist critical attitude of the social four can damage their image.

    But sexual fours are often demanding, so they move towards the rejection instead of dismissing it as a defense.
    All sexual types may have a moth to flame quality and with fours this means moving towards rejection, as it's masochistic and reinforces their fixation with being insignificant. So sx fours demand the affections and attentions and position of "favorite" with a particular person, and they may even put themselves in competition with the person they want. This of course pushes people away, which may make the sexual four lash out angrily even more.

    Example...say a four is infatuated romantically with someone. The person doesn't seem to reciprocate.
    All fours will feel some sting that this is commentary on their defectiveness - what is wrong with me?
    Then their instincts kick in to color their ego defense.

    Social four - they aren't appreciated because the masses have horrible taste. It's almost a compliment to be rejected. They will direct their scorned energy at forming a dismissive and critical towards anything that rejects them or which they think does. Their anger may seem whiny or highly critical with an intellectual or elitist bent. They want to get close to people but create very difficult criteria as a defense. If someone doesn't have their taste level or deeper interests, etc, then they don't want to bother. They don't feel appreciated because they feel too different, but they also don't appreciate that which is not their own style.

    Self-pres four - they feel they aren't noticed by others because they aren't obnoxiously demanding attention like everyone else because they don't need validation. What they do themselves proves their significance (i.e. perhaps what the create, even if it's just a lifestyle or personal image). They don't need anyone, so if they want someone, then that person should be flattered. They will sit back and wait for the object of their obsession to realize they are the ONE. They will torture themselves with fantasies they suspect won't ever happen. They build up anger over having been patient and independent and not being rewarded with the object of their desire, but this anger is more of a simmering brooding. They actually want intimacy very much, but find this needy and think that admitting it will actually repulse people. They try to attract by being aloof but also interesting - people must go to them and win them over, but meanwhile, they may obsess over certain people in secret. Outwardly, it can look like they don't care which repels people instead of attracting them.

    Sexual - they may put someone on a pedestal and become angry because they feel they don't compare. They may also want to knock the person off the pedestal by getting closer to them and possessing their affections. They idolize people and hate them at the same time. When the person doesn't respond as they'd like, they lash out angrily, wanting to hurt the person in the same way they perceive they've been hurt. If the person responds as they want, they may actually grow bored, as being masochistic fours, deep down they actually boost their ego fixation through feelings of rejection. These fours may focus on the qualities the person has that they don't, feeling inferior but perhaps seeing "getting" that person as a sign that they have equal significance. Often if they get close enough, then they get disillusioned by the person and then seek to cut them down to sizes as a kind of payback for the suffering they experienced when infatuated. Sexual fours can demanding, vindictive and fickle, and their competition plays out more often with the object of their desire, not with someone else over that person. Fickleness (I love you - no I hate you!) is one indicator the sexual instinct is at play, IMO.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe
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  7. #7
    FRACTALICIOUS phobik's Avatar
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    i like some . a bit.
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  8. #8
    smoking nirvana biohazard's Avatar
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    Never again... NEVER, AGAIN.

    "Eroticism thrives in the space between the self and the other." -- Esther Perel

    hit up my johari

  9. #9
    Honeyed Water thoughtlost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fay View Post
    I'd disagree with this... Sx is about intimacy. I see instinctual variants as directions of energy. Energy of an sp goes inward, on the self, survivor, interior, sx energy is intense, it goes outside but doesn't spread further than the object of intimacy, so energy is the widest and spreads the most to the exterior, to others, goes beyond the self is the most out there of all three.
    I guess I just disagree with the idea that intimacy is the core of the sexual variant because I don't know how to apply it to other enneagram types. It works well for image types, but it doesn't work well for ...say an enneagram 1 or even a 6 or 7. Maybe I am not understanding what you mean by intimacy, though. Maybe you don't mean intimacy with another person, but intimacy with a deeper part of the sx-individual (which what I agree with). So for a sx-4 ...then that means intimacy with their sense of inferiority (and this is what I meant in my first comment to the thread).

    I really like the post made by @OrangeAppled


    All E4s want (or can want) intimacy from another individual, and all 4s generally expect to be rejected (not get what the intimacy/not appreciated for who they are). In the end, the E4 is ALWAYS rejected. A social 4 criticizes the cultural/societal forces that led them to be rejected and typically sound holier than thou about it (meaning, most their thoughts are about judging the collective other or simply claiming how they cannot be like others). Even as they ask “what’s wrong with me??” the answer always goes back to “oh, I am better/different than 95% of the population and I am seeking something deeper/more intimate than what others can offer …so therefore I suffer”. I mean, they have been typed as very elitist …so it makes sense that social 4s respond this way. Social 4s can enjoy short, fun romantic flings and sexual encounters, but the focus of their suffering is on how they don't fit into the norm.

    I am really interested in what Orangeappled said about the sexual-4. This is exactly what I was trying to get at (I know, it sounds like a cop-out/cheating or something to say that someone else’s words is what I meant). These 4s are deeply in touch with the sense of being defective/not good enough. A social and SP-4 isn’t going to look up to another individual and think “he/she is more significant than I am” although that is the CORE of being a 4 (which is the feeling of not being significant/worthy of love). A sexual 4 experiences that intensely and acutely while the social-4 puts THEMSELVES upon a pedestal (the social 4 is thinking “everyone is so shallow” and the only way to be accepted is to stoop to their level and be unhappy forever!) and the sp-4 is just more nonchalant about it. They all experience the same feeling, but for the sexual 4 …it’s not hidden behind a feeling of being different from the majority or feigned aloofness.

    In fact, I MIGHT relate to @OrangeAppled description of a sx-4. I often put others on a pedestal and then come to resent them. I definitely have an inferiority complex (meaning that I pay a lot of attention to how another person, usually my closest/best friend, is better than me in some way). In high school, I lost a best friend that way. I was always looking to prove to myself that they didn't appreciate me. I would give them the cold shoulder or start verbal arguments with them. I am experiencing a similar thing right now (but with a different person, of course).
    You are so arbitrary.

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