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[Traditional Enneagram] What type did your culture raise you to be?

EJCC

The Devil of TypoC
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The stereotype / common wisdom is that women are raised to be enneagram 2 (nurturing, caring, helpful), and men are raised to be enneagram 8 (protective, dominant, competitive). That has been my experience in predominantly white subsections of American society, as well as my personal experience (I'm still trying to tone down my overcompensatory 2 wing), but that's it.

As a counterexample, one of my best friends, a Puerto Rican woman (3w2) who is as into the Enneagram as I am, strongly believes that Latinas in America are raised to be enneagram 8. She's the one who first posed this question to me - but she's not on the forum, so I'm bringing the question here instead.

Especially interested in feedback from non-Americans, and American PoC. But I'm obviously well aware that the OP doesn't have a monopoly of control over the conversation.

Thoughts?
 

Ashtart

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Well, I was definitely raised in a way that would make me a type 5. The expectations were 2, of course, but the way I was raised would really describe as people trying to turn someone in a 5. No wonder why it is my wing (so strong that I believed I was a 5 for a good time). The fact that I have 6 and 8 in my tritype was very unwelcoming, but I really don't care.
 

Virtual ghost

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I would say 7 ... if you can do it tomorrow do it tomorrow. If you can solve it with improvisation improvise. Who knows maybe the world will end today and we don't want to have regrets. (what is byproducts the endless cycle of wars and dictatorships that goes all the way to collapse of the Roman Empire)


As said trully plenty of times: I have huge problems with twisting typology that it fits environment in which I was growing up. For example typology fails to notice that an 8 that is born in totalitarian system may be more openminded towards not having perfect control. Since that is not realistic expectation, therefore he is likely to creep around the edges of the society. Since that is the most independant you can get.


So yeah, culture and even more political reality can totally twist the types.
 

magpie

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This isn't what the OP is actually about, but being a 6 isn't really a personality. It's when survival mechanisms are ingrained into your personality throughout your life. It's a way to survive and if you grow up with enough stuff that challenges your survival, it becomes who you are. This isn't particularly cultural. Just one person's subjective experiences.

If I were the same person living a different life I wouldn't be a 6 and nor would I be the MBTI type that I am. Nurture twists and shapes nature and makes you sort of pan-type.
 

Atomic Fiend

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Hatians are strict traditionalist. A common belief is that all Hatians act the same way and have the same roles. There are no LGBTQ hations, but I've been on the streets long enough to know that they exist and they're looking for new places to live because their parents kicked them out.
 

Ashtart

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This isn't what the OP is actually about, but being a 6 isn't really a personality. It's when survival mechanisms are ingrained into your personality throughout your life. It's a way to survive and if you grow up with enough stuff that challenges your survival, it becomes who you are. This isn't particularly cultural. Just one person's subjective experiences.

If I were the same person living a different life I wouldn't be a 6 and nor would I be the MBTI type that I am. Nurture twists and shapes nature and makes you sort of pan-type.

This.
 

Lord Lavender

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This is a topic I have pondered on regarding the way my culture has affected my typing. The culture I grew up in is very 269 tritype so that has probably made my w6 on my 7 and the w2 on my 3 stronger than typical for one of my tri and why I mistyped as a 2w3 not a 3w2 since its heavily grained into me to be super nice and helpful so kinda like a purple circle that thinks hes blue as it was grained into him ot be more blue than typical for his natural ways.
 

Totenkindly

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While nurturing affects us, I don't think it's all of the picture -- because we still end up being different even when raised in the same environment. Basically, whatever our internal preferences are clash or meld with the external forces acting on us to produce an end (and probably evolving throughout life) result. Basically we all start with some raw materials that can differ, and then the environment pings off us, determining how these materials are developed, denied, embraced, or whatever.

If I look at the earliest traits I possessed in life, I would say "thoughtful curiosity" was one of the first and major components of "me." I wanted to understand the world, and I would take continual measured approaches to exploration -- i.e., I'm not the kid who just ran out on the ice to see what would happen, even though I surely wanted to know, I would try to understand ice first and watch other safer experiments before risking myself on it (as an example). [Of course, even there you see my focus on anxiety/fear... I was afraid of things I did not understand, so I quickly focused on learning and understanding so as to master my fear.]

Words also allowed me to better understand my world; I taught myself to read at age 4-5, although my parents didn't find out until my teacher told them I could. I've always been articulate and read voraciously when young.

That detached/thoughtful focus on learning and understanding (as the primary effort) is a vintage Five pattern. Also, "detachment" versus "moving against" -- and I would "move towards" only when I could not detach.

In the rural religious environment I grew up in (and since I was being raised as male), I felt pressure towards Six and later in life towards Eight. I ended up picking up a lot of Nine instead, as my "diplomatic face" in a conflict-torn family and a culture that wanted to change me. The parts of Five that are appreciated (being smart, getting good grades, becoming accomplished in areas of interest) were all supported by my culture and admired, but my lack of social ambition about how to leverage them was not approved of... I was expected to compete and succeed, whereas I was just happy living in my room, doing my thing, and furthering my own understanding of life and pursuing my own creative ventures.

My mom is a clear Two, and I think my sister is as well... and she was definitely raised to emulate Two behaviors. I was expected to do a bit of that in terms of being polite and kind, write thank you letters to show appreciation, and help people in need... but I was never expected to go to the lengths that my sister was. In a lot of ways, I was allowed to just do the bare minimum there but not have to overextend myself.
 

Amargith

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Sil

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If I had to make any guess, I would say there was no overarching expectation for me, other than maybe compliance with authority figures such as teachers, instructors, etc. Nobody had expectations for my personality-- it was already there by the time I was old enough to talk.

Grew up in a predominantly white, middle-class, Christian, conservative community. Based on anecdotal observations, there was no push for certain "personality models" in either sex like the OP experienced. None of my female childhood friends are twos or have stereotypical two-ish behavior. None of my male childhood friends are eights or have stereotypical eight-ish behavior.
 

Smilephantomhive

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Does America even have a single culture? Culture could have a part, but like other people said, other things affect type as while. I don't think you can say most Americans are one type, and most people of some other country are another type. It's not that simple.
 

EJCC

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Does America even have a single culture? Culture could have a part, but like other people said, other things affect type as while. I don't think you can say most Americans are one type, and most people of some other country are another type. It's not that simple.
This is exactly what I argued in the OP.
 

Forever

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Be practical but also be open minded? I don't see how my environment could be merely squeezed into one influence via enneatype or mbti type
 

CitizenErased

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In my country (Argentina), and talking about stereotypes, most boys are raised as 7s and girls as 3s (in general, we're the world's production of party animal ESFPs). In the OP, [MENTION=4945]EJCC[/MENTION] mentioned Latin women being raised as 8s. I don't know if women are raised as very powerful 8s, but certainly men like women with strong character. In my country in particular, most families have Italian relatives, and we have the figure of the Italian grandma, which is as 2 as she is 8 (meaning she will stuff you like a pig, make you sweaters and fight your parents for you... and then meet your classmates and decide who of them are friend potential and go with pots and metal spoons to the Congress to make noise because we have an incompetent president... you love your grandma as much as you fear her verdict). That tradition came because in Italy the important figure is the Italian mother, but we're the grandchildren of them, so we modified the tradition.

Anyway. I have an ESFJ mother and an INTJ father. Both professors. As soon as I liberated my hands from crawling, they gave me a book and taught me to read, and they taught me that one had to be curious. So whenever I had questions, they answered me and asked ME something (sort of like Socrates).

I also come from a family that let me cover the walls with crayon doodles that I called "frogs". And then my INTJ father would come with a crayon and draw a super-realistic frog beside my "art" (pfff, show-off), and then we would go to a bookstore and sit on the floor and check encyclopaedias for different types of frogs, and then we'd talk about amphibian animals, and then what other kind of animals there were, etc, and then my mother woul teach me how to write the word "amphibian" and the rest of the animals. Basically they taught me that I didn't have to learn in order to have a cookie, but I had to want to learn for knowledge itself. It was all a system.

Then I was introduced in the system (kindergarten), and that's where all went south, because I knew 50 colours and my classmates named them "tomato, mint, banana colours" and would hit me for being smart. And all I had to battle with was studying more things, because that was all I knew how to do, since my parents are both social misfits who think society is still like the 50s and teenagers get together to drink orange juice and play cards until they meet someone, date for 10 years, get married, discover sex and then forget about it unless they want kids, and that's about it.

My growing dislike of people made me spend my time learning new abilities and being alone, which is where I suspect I developed my e4 and e1, the first by this sense of individuality in a sea of "future Youtubers", where introspection is an unknown word, and the latter by forming my own values as a list of oppositions to all the personal values of my mother and the general values of the society I'm "inserted" in.

And that's how I built me.
 

á´…eparted

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Parents divorced when I was three, and they are very different. They had equal custody of me growing up.

My dad (1w2) heavily raised me to be an 8.

My mother (9w8) heavily raised me to be a 4.

I always felt like society wanted me to be a 3.

I ended up as a 1.
 

Red Memories

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I think 3 was a pretty heavy thing in my family.
 

Lady Lazarus

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As a fellow Latina, I more agree with the implication behind your friend's statement than its specifics. That is, that women of our cultures are implicitly encouraged to embody 8-ish (and/or non-phobic [self-preservation/prussian or outright cp] 6-ish with regards to my specific subset) traits.

Regardless, having experienced both cultures firsthand (and the accompanying culture shock around the disparity between the mild harshness of my original culture and the comparative softness of my new culture), even after so many years I still find some of the louder facets of American culture too mushy a lot of the time but it’s not as if I don’t understand that it is one of the two focal and most probable derivations from a melting-pot in terms of values. And I can appreciate the refinement that it takes to cultivate these things. As an adult I can see that the right idea is there but there are too many people intent upon using the baseline “decency” type things to fluff their own image and that is where it heads south into what I just referred to as “mushy”. Therefore, I would agree that American culture implicitly encourages e2 style values (especially in women but I think it's still a thing in the generic sense too, only even more subtle and complicated) even if it doesn’t necessarily produce e2’s.
 

Masokissed

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I would guess mine would produce a lot of 8 since confrontation is a big thing with us and to other cultures us talking normally is almost like arguing. Also some 2 since taking care of family and friends is placed highly, and also 3 because of focus on appearing acceptable and a lot of games of one-upping between us. And from all of this I either ended up as 748 or 738 (at first I rejected "our" values and focused on being unique like 4 but now I seem much more 3).
 

Galena

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e9 pressure at home, e1 pressure outside the home.
 
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