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  1. #1
    Dream without Hesitation Dreamer's Avatar
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    Default What is REALLY, at the core of a 9?

    So this thread comes from a self reflection and after reading more into this E type, may find more in relation to it than I had initially thought. Currently my tritype stands between a 729 or 279, but I may find myself down the road considering 9 as my core or fix once I dig deeper into this type.

    But, this isn't a type me thread, though, feel free to drop your inclinations as to where 9 may fall within my tritype, but my question comes from gaining the general understanding that 9s do not like confrontation, and as one method they commonly avoid confrontation, aside from leaving the scene altogether, is to basically placate the aggressor and always choosing the path of least resistance as it pertains to maintaining this internal emotional "nirvana", this balance that is so sought after by the 9. But this has me thinking, that's fine and all, but to me, that doesn't seem as a true "core" in itself. It seems to me, that what the 9 pivots their decisions on, is instead a reaction to their real core fear. Avoidance is a maneuver, as with the 7, I find it rather lacking to define a type's core motivation off a reaction, as I understand it.

    I am a relative novice when it comes to Enneagram, so please, if anyone has some true incite into 9s,hopefully some 9s can chime in, but is conflict avoidance really the core?? It seems there should be something much deeper than this.

    Side note, the reason I'm currently leaning towards a more prominent 9 in my tritype is because I feel that is what everyone typically sees in interactions with me, on the forum and why I can be so approachable to members. That chill and laid back Dreamer is really just after maintaining his inner emotional balance, and that means protecting it from any potential aggressors as much as possible. Just some thoughts
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  2. #2
    Dra9on ESFJ's Avatar
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    The core fear is of separation. Creating irreparable rifts between the self and the other. 9w1 is more proximate and 9w8 more ultimate in what they think will cause that.

    Therefore, yes, what you identified as a possible core is actually only a symptom of the core fear.

    Re: your maybe down the road, I don't think 9 is your core from the way you speak about your conflict avoidance.
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  3. #3
    Dream without Hesitation Dreamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ESFJ View Post
    The core fear is of separation. Creating irreparable rifts between the self and the other. 9w1 is more proximate and 9w8 more ultimate in what they think will cause that.

    Therefore, yes, what you identified as a possible core is actually only a symptom of the core fear.

    Re: your maybe down the road, I don't think 9 is your core from the way you speak about your conflict avoidance.
    Ahh I see. Thanks for the help on this! I had a feeling something in my understanding was missing but I didn't know what. Since you're a 9, what would you say is at play within my interactions if 9 is not my core? Would you suggest my avoidance vibes differently? No pressure on the input. You've just piqued my curiosity now
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  4. #4
    Dra9on ESFJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enthusiastic_Dreamer View Post
    Would you suggest my avoidance vibes differently? No pressure on the input. You've just piqued my curiosity now
    What was different was the way you speak about your conflict avoidance. In other words, the way you're framing it. A nine who speaks about their conflict avoidance won't embellish it to sound positive like you have here.

    I think this is relevant to that last part of my statement:

    This is not 9:
    "dependents are notably self-effacing, obsequious, ever-agreeable, docile and ingratiating … They deny their individuality, subordinate their desires, and hide what vestiges they possess as identities apart from others...dependent personality disorder is essentially that of our phobic (self-preservation subtype of ennea-type VI)."

    This is 9:
    “Their outward demeanor is harmonious, inconspicuous, giving an impression of pleasing repose, or of sympathetic response, with no desire to affect others, to impress, influence, or change them in any way … Although there is a constant readiness for peaceful and harmonious coexistence, strangers are shown no touch of amiability, no gleam of responsive warmth, but are met with apparent indifference … Faced with anything that might carry her away or arouse enthusiasm, this type observes a benevolent though critical neutrality … Arty stormy emotion, however, will be struck down with a murderous coldness”
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  5. #5
    Dream without Hesitation Dreamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ESFJ View Post
    What was different was the way you speak about your conflict avoidance. In other words, the way you're framing it. A nine who speaks about their conflict avoidance won't embellish it to sound positive like you have here.

    I think this is relevant to that last part of my statement:
    Mmm interesting

    Admittedly, I sort of just accepted having a 9 in my tritype since most members suggested it, and since I didn't know anything about the 9, I took their word for it. I watched a few videos on YouTube of the type and many things did resonate with me, but all this shows is that I still have a ways to go in understanding the Enneagram. Ohh... a new interest for me to get into!
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  6. #6
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
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    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
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  7. #7
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    @ESFJ
    That second excerpt is from Jung's Introverted Feeling type in Psychological Types. Although the word arty is not in any translation I've seen.
    Basically, that will apply to IxFPs regardless of enneagram, and xxFPs in general might relate to it in some ways.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  8. #8
    Dra9on ESFJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    @ESFJ
    That second excerpt is from Jung's Introverted Feeling type in Psychological Types. Although the word arty is not in any translation I've seen.
    Basically, that will apply to IxFPs regardless of enneagram, and xxFPs in general might relate to it in some ways.
    I know.

    I'm referring to it in the context of Naranjo stating it as one of the approximations to e9 in Character and Neurosis. I thought it would be a good analogy given that he's more familiar with MBTI. I suppose I could have been clearer.

    As for "arty", perhaps this isn't the most reliable version:
    [Enneagram Type 9] Naranjo's 'Character & Neurosis': Ennea-Type IX
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  9. #9
    Dream without Hesitation Dreamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    Awesome! Thanks PeaceBaby. I just read snippets of the link and browsed through what I could, but will return to it once I get a chance. I think this will help clear up much mystery for me concerning 9s
    The future belongs to those who believe in the beauty of their dreams
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  10. #10
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    I think the way I've come to see enneagram, there are 9 common themes, but the way types play out in individuals can look different. There are actually pretty recognizable varieties of each enneatype (sometimes not neatly categorized within so/sx/sp or wings).

    As with many mystical traditions, the idea of the subject/external duality plays a role in enneagram, in that we have a sense of a separate existence from the rest of reality that is used to define the ego - at its extremes, this leads to enneatypes 4/5's isolation.
    Enneagram seems to declare that this tension/separation is philosophically what grounds our patterns of motivation and how we rationalize them. There are instinctual, head-oriented, emotion/heart-oriented ways of doing so predominantly, and we could loosely say that the first represses the sense of separation most, and in a sense is the most practical view of the subject-external dynamics, given that the way the subject interfaces with the external is in deciding how to act in the broadest sense. At the heart end, the separation might play out via the question of "what is the subject's place in the external" -- hence questions of significance come up, since the external is seemingly impersonal, the subject feels anything but, and to fill the gap, it must acquire some kind of objective significance.
    At the head end, the external is increasingly viewed as foreign and intrusive as we move towards 5, hence this triad deals with anxiety.

    With this background, you could say 8 represents a repression of the anxiety/inhibitory instinct of the head end, hence its vigorous fixation called lust; 9 denies the separation to the largest degree, hence if there's one thing 9s are prone to do, it's forgetting their sense of self -- there are some more rugged/rebellious 9s who still display a kind of numbing psychology (not unrelated to 8's repression of fear/inhibition) and loose sense of self, and some more "traditional" soft and compliant 9s. There is a sense in which this forgetting the sense of self is both symbolic of the fundamental problem and solution of the enneagram, because on the one hand, the dissolution of the separation is the aim, but the means ought not (so the theory goes) be repression of it. This lies exactly parallel to Jung's theory of needing to differentiate and then individuate -- neither deny the superior/inferior function dynamics nor deny the need to transcend them.

    This will be familiar to many, but since you're new, that's just a bit of a summary of perspective.

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