• You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to additional post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), view blogs, respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so please join our community today! Just click here to register. You should turn your Ad Blocker off for this site or certain features may not work properly. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us by clicking here.

[Traditional Enneagram] The new and improved Enneagram! From the sponge and evan.

Random Ness

New member
Joined
Aug 17, 2010
Messages
270
Help?

Behavior: anticipate > avoid > pursue
Emotional: turbulent > controlled = suppressed
Motive: preservational > social > intimate

So that means I'm either a 6>2>4 or a 6>4>2, right?


Edit 9/6: controlled > suppressed to controlled = suppressed.
 
Last edited:

Aleksei

Yeah, I can fly.
Joined
Mar 10, 2010
Messages
3,626
MBTI Type
ENTJ
Enneagram
7w6
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Correct. 6/4/2 or 6/2/4 sp/so.
 

Random Ness

New member
Joined
Aug 17, 2010
Messages
270
Cool. :) And it's accurate because a phobic 6 is much like a 4 and sometimes I test as a 2. Props to the creators!
 

redacted

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 28, 2007
Messages
4,223
I like how aleksei has taken my place in this thread :)

Oh, and to make my post not completely fluff: Thanks random ness!
 

Magic Poriferan

^He pronks, too!
Joined
Nov 4, 2007
Messages
14,081
MBTI Type
Yin
Enneagram
One
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
I like how aleksei has taken my place in this thread :)

Oh, and to make my post not completely fluff: Thanks random ness!

Hey there, stranger.

Anything happen here that enrages you as a violation of all that is right with this idea? :D
 

Emmilou

New member
Joined
Jul 21, 2010
Messages
35
MBTI Type
ENFJ
Enneagram
2w1
So the order of the original enneagram is arbitrary? I never really got that thing fully. I started learning about wings and then my friend was like: Blah, blah wings are pointless. So now I just don't know what to think anymore.
 

Magic Poriferan

^He pronks, too!
Joined
Nov 4, 2007
Messages
14,081
MBTI Type
Yin
Enneagram
One
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
So the order of the original enneagram is arbitrary? I never really got that thing fully. I started learning about wings and then my friend was like: Blah, blah wings are pointless. So now I just don't know what to think anymore.

To be clear, there's a little arbitration in everything. But the system elaborated here attempts to minimize arbitration and maximize deduction/inferrence from what was arbitrated. This can certainly not be said of the enneagram.
 

Pablonuts25

New member
Joined
Aug 31, 2010
Messages
1
MBTI Type
ExTJ
Enneagram
3w4
"I have stated several times before on this forum that I determined the original wing system to be baseless. The need for the wing type to be "adjacent" didn't make sense, since as my variable system indicates, the actual order of the numbers that the types were assigned is meaningless. There is no sensible reason that 7s should be next to 6s, for example. So, anything based off of that order, like the wings, needs to completely reformed."

This is wrong.
 

Magic Poriferan

^He pronks, too!
Joined
Nov 4, 2007
Messages
14,081
MBTI Type
Yin
Enneagram
One
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
"I have stated several times before on this forum that I determined the original wing system to be baseless. The need for the wing type to be "adjacent" didn't make sense, since as my variable system indicates, the actual order of the numbers that the types were assigned is meaningless. There is no sensible reason that 7s should be next to 6s, for example. So, anything based off of that order, like the wings, needs to completely reformed."

This is wrong.

You're not the first person to say that here, so why not take a look through the whole thead and see some of the discussion that took place about it?
 

angelhair45

New member
Joined
Jun 15, 2010
Messages
307
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
7w6
It seemed to work for me pretty well.

7>8>9. IPS

I did the whole thing and got 7>8>9>3>2>4>5>6>1. I think the order seems pretty accurate, but I've just recently started learning more about enneagram. I definitely feel like I am least like 1.
 

Aleksei

Yeah, I can fly.
Joined
Mar 10, 2010
Messages
3,626
MBTI Type
ENTJ
Enneagram
7w6
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
On further reflection Sponge, I think you shaved off the wrong variable from the original Enneagram -- you should have snipped off the emotion variable and left the triads, and you'd get what you were after: A simpler version of the same type system. After all, emotion is the least relevant portion of each archetype, and often the first to be discarded when a type doesn't fit. For example, I fit the 3 archetype far better than the 8 archetype, but in typing myself a Three I'm forced to discard the emotional variable, because I am turbulent (so in your system I would be an 8 -- probably an 8w4).
 

Magic Poriferan

^He pronks, too!
Joined
Nov 4, 2007
Messages
14,081
MBTI Type
Yin
Enneagram
One
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
On further reflection Sponge, I think you shaved off the wrong variable from the original Enneagram -- you should have snipped off the emotion variable and left the triads, and you'd get what you were after: A simpler version of the same type system. After all, emotion is the least relevant portion of each archetype, and often the first to be discarded when a type doesn't fit. For example, I fit the 3 archetype far better than the 8 archetype, but in typing myself a Three I'm forced to discard the emotional variable, because I am turbulent (so in your system I would be an 8 -- probably an 8w4).

The triads? You mean like 8, 1 ,9?
 

Aleksei

Yeah, I can fly.
Joined
Mar 10, 2010
Messages
3,626
MBTI Type
ENTJ
Enneagram
7w6
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Yup. Head, heart and gut. They seem to have more explanatory power, in addition to the behavior variable, than behavior + emotion do.
 

Sunny Ghost

New member
Joined
May 28, 2010
Messages
2,396
The new notation.

The concept behind the new wing system can actually be used to create any entire ranking list of the types. for me, it goes like this 1 > 6 > 5 > 2 > 3 > 4 > 9 > 8 > 7. I was able to conclude that based on just on my primary and secondary wings. :D

The whole list becomes evident once you know what's in second place, and which variable shifts first. If a person is a 4, and their primary wing is 9 and their secondary wing is 6, then I know the whole list will be like this: 4 > 9 > 6 > 5 > 8 > 2 > 1 > 7 > 3. Do you understand how I can know that?

Since that degree of information is so useful, I want everyone using this system to list their primary and secondary wings from left to right, like this: 1w6w5. Or you can write 1/6/5, 1>6>5, 1-6-5, etc.. That is the minimum amount need to know everything about your core type variables.

Of course, we must not forget about the Instincts. It has been decided that people should list their wing system separately, using the Instinct notation I had invented before, like this I-P-S. That stands for Intimate, self-Preservational, Social. Just list all three in order along side the other type and wings. 1w6w5 I-P-S. It may look lengthy, but I assure you that it is more convenient than the alternatives. I had considered putting all three variables together in one list, but that resulted in a list with 27 types, and that was just way too awkward.

So there you have it! That's what has been developed for now. Odds are, questions still remain for some regarding original features such as the directions of (dis)integration or the steps of health, etc.. Those are still under consideration, and you may PM to discuss that.

Thank you for reading. :)
I'm confused. :confused: Do you think you can explain this more clearly?
 

Magic Poriferan

^He pronks, too!
Joined
Nov 4, 2007
Messages
14,081
MBTI Type
Yin
Enneagram
One
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
I'm confused. :confused: Do you think you can explain this more clearly?

Hopefully I will tomorrow. Or technically today some time after I wake up.

The huge problem with this thread is that all the images in the OPs have disappeared again!
This happens every time there's a server change or an upgrade of some crap. I guess it's futile to put them back. :dont:
 

Magic Poriferan

^He pronks, too!
Joined
Nov 4, 2007
Messages
14,081
MBTI Type
Yin
Enneagram
One
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
I keep forgetting to explain this! :angry:

It really is harder without the pictures, though. :unsure:

I wonder if I can PM you the images that used to be here, Indy.
 

Mal12345

Permabanned
Joined
Apr 19, 2011
Messages
14,532
MBTI Type
IxTP
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
I have some observations to make about the essay above, and I found one error. The observation is that your 1-2-6 triad corresponds to the Compliant personality, your 3-8-7 triad corresponds to the Aggressive personality, and your 5-4-9 triad corresponds to the Withdrawn personality. See pp 434-36 of Personality Types.

The error is your statement that the wing of each type is "the one you are second-most like." But that is not an accurate description of wing theory. The wing is the "second side of your overall personality" (PT, p.43). Riso then goes on to state that the traits of that wing may be a strong or very slight influence on your dominant type. The fact is that we humans possess traits from all 9 points on the Enneagram, but this does not disprove wing-theory.

Your essay then moves on to use your own definition of wings to replace traditional wing-theory (of whatever variant) with your own, and all I can say is that in doing so you no longer have wing-theory but something else. That doesn't mean your concluding theory is wrong, but it is based off of a false definition of wings and therefore isn't really about wings at all. So it's more like a straw-man version of wing-theory.

There is a questionable straw-man argument related to your primary axiom: 'The need for the wing type to be "adjacent" didn't make sense, since as my variable system indicates, the actual order of the numbers that the types were assigned is meaningless. There is no sensible reason that 7s should be next to 6s, for example.'

This one takes more explanation. While there is something rather arbitrary or "meaningless" in one sense, in another sense the 9 types are related in groups of threes by means of triads and centers. It is more practical to have 2-3-4 next to each other as they symbolize primary issues with emotions. The 2 projects emotion, the 3 represses or under-expresses emotion, and the 4 introjects emotion. The 5-6-7 center is related to the intellect, and the 8-9-1 is related to instinct according to the manner with which each type in the triad deals with instincts.

The 9 being on top has always held special significance as a symbol of unity for the entire structure of types.

So while there may be an arbitrary element here, there is indeed a purpose and a plan that goes back to original Enneagram theory given to us by P.D. Ouspensky (The Fourth Way), G.I Gurdjieff (who brought us the enneagram symbol), and Oscar Ichavo (particularly this latter who brought these ideas to the West). These are spiritual teachers who instructed students on the spiritual side of human nature. Any change to that original purpose and structure not only negates wing theory, it negates the Enneagram and leaves you with 9 types of a system by another arbitrary name of your own choosing. To treat the Enneagram itself as an arbitrary construct negates at least a century of teaching on the subject, even if you choose to retain the Enneagram symbol itself.

The origin of the Enneagram's construction, along with the ordering of the types, is found here.

There you will find explanations of the Laws of 3 and 7, as well as the musical tones associated with 7 of them (the Octave). There is also a chemistry analogy presented here for the Law of 3, C+O+N > H, and a "cosmic octave."

So now you see that there is much more to the Enneagram than a typing system. And this is just the tip of the iceberg. It is a small part of a massive system of spiritual growth. But if all you see is a typing system, then there is indeed no basis for supporting the traditional system, and reconstructing it according to any design is highly possible.
 
Top