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  1. #51
    Senior Member Delphyne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    You might have noticed that the Enneagram types seemed more pure, simple, or archetypical than the MB types. You might have observed that they are each individually defined, int stead of being comprised of variables. They were 9 allegedly "unique" types. Well that's hogwash. They are related or unrelated to each other in traceable variable based patterns, and the attempts to say otherwise have lead to many aspects of the Enneagram types that seem either vague or inexplicable.
    Well, we'll be having no more of that.
    The enneagram types are based on nine different passions, but there are already at least four ways to group the types into 3 x 3 categories. Your variables are nothing new, only your names are. Your first variable is normally called the Hornevian Groups, your second the Harmonic Groups. Additionally there are the Triads, which include the Heart Triade (2,3,4), the Head Triad (5,6,7) and the Instinctive Triad (8,91), and the Dominant Affect Groups, which include the Attachment-Based Group (3,6,9), the Frustration-Based Group (1,4,7) and the Rejection-Based Group (2,5,8).

    In that case, we can probably conclude that your wing can't be any type that shares no values with your core type. That automatically cuts out four types, and leaves behind four that could possibly be a person's wing (consult the type chart to know which). It's worth noting that this already makes some of the original wings impossible. For example. there can no longer be a 9w8, because 9s and 8s share no values.
    Each type shares values and commonalities with every other type. You can only cut out types if you reject the two other categories Im talking about. Nines and Eights both belong to the Instinctive Triad.

  2. #52
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    I think the cold medicine is getting to me.

    Fine then, MP. I yield. I am either 3, 1, or 5.
    That's not far from where we left off. I threw out the possibility of you being a 6, and nearly decided that you must be a 5, but then considered that you could actually be an unconventional 3. So, I left it at 5 or 3.

    I still think you're a 5, but 3 is probably your primary wing. 4 is probably your secondary wing.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  3. #53
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Delphyne View Post
    The enneagram types are based on nine different passions, but there are already at least four ways to group the types into 3 x 3 categories. Your variables are nothing new, only your names are. Your first variable is normally called the Hornevian Groups, your second the Harmonic Groups. Additionally there are the Triads, which include the Heart Triade (2,3,4), the Head Triad (5,6,7) and the Instinctive Triad (8,91), and the Dominant Affect Groups, which include the Attachment-Based Group (3,6,9), the Frustration-Based Group (1,4,7) and the Rejection-Based Group (2,5,8).


    Each type shares values and commonalities with every other type. You can only cut out types if you reject the two other categories Im talking about. Nines and Eights both belong to the Instinctive Triad.
    I'm actually familiar with all of these groupings. What you have stated is something of a truism, in that the many, many variables of human personality can be catagorized in many different ways. I like some more than others, thougs. I always found the head, heart, gut triad to seem really off base. Three did not seem appropiately in the heart triad, for example.

    That being said, even if you wanted to point point out the similarity many of these groupings have with older ones, I still feel that the inductions of the instincts along with a stack for all the values in an important change that I've seen no one else propose.

    EDIT: Oh, yeah, and my analysis still showed that the wings made no sense at all. That's another important change.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  4. #54
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    That's not far from where we left off. I threw out the possibility of you being a 6, and nearly decided that you must be a 5, but then considered that you could actually be an unconventional 3. So, I left it at 5 or 3.

    I still think you're a 5, but 3 is probably your primary wing. 4 is probably your secondary wing.
    Whatever you say, spongey-kun.

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  5. #55
    Senior Member Delphyne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    I'm actually familiar with all of these groupings. What you have stated is something of a truism, in that the many, many variables of human personality can be catagorized in many different ways. I like some more than others, thougs.
    I wasnt talking about many variables, only four and the possibility that there are more. So far only these four seem to fit in with my observations.

    I always found the head, heart, gut triad to seem really off base. Three did not seem appropiately in the heart triad, for example.
    The triads are actually the groups which I find easiest do spot. Sometimes I can see and feel where someone has his center. Especially some 3w2s radiate feeling (heart) energy. Its also very easy to experience these centers through exercises and detect how you react if you focus your attention to the three different centers.

    That being said, even if you wanted to point point out the similarity many of these groupings have with older ones, I still feel that the inductions of the instincts along with a stack for all the values in an important change that I've seen no one else propose.
    Yes, I have never heard about that particular theory before.

  6. #56
    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    ...

    The second variable is one that regards emotional states and responses. They can be turbulent, suppressive, or controlling, for lack of better words.

    The turbulent ones are the people that do not hinder their emotions at all. They let their moods tempestuously flare with every feeling as it is set off. Their emotions run wild. They often seem to tilt toward being more negative than positive, but I think this is largely just because there are more negative emotions than positive ones, not because these types particularly want to dwell on negativity. These types are 4, 6, and 8.

    The suppressive types try to keep their emotions from speaking up. They tend to believe that they can work best when they are not hearing their emotions much or at all. By default they are well composed people. But when they fail to successfully suppress their emotions, it often results in awkward displays. These types are 1, 3, and 5.

    The controlling types are the ones that try to manipulate the flow of their own feelings to their advantage. These are the people that try to think positive. They make an effort to both display desirable emotions to others, and to also frequently reassure themselves of such good feelings. Most usually pick feelings like confidence, happiness, or love to project, but they may develop whatever feeling is appealing to them. They are also prone to suffering from denial, and usually take it very hard if their self-assurances can be completely disproven. These types are 2, 7, and 9.

    So, to summarize the types:
    Pursuing/Turbulent = 8. Avoiding/Turbulent = 4. Anticipating/Turbulent = 6. Pursuing/Suppressive = 3. Avoiding/Suppressive = 5. Anticipating/Suppressive = 1. Pursuing/Controlling = 7. Avoiding/Controlling = 9. Anticipating/Controlling = 2.

    Here's a chart of the types, centering on the 8, to help give you an idea of where they stand.

    Attachment 2463

    This additional picture, centered on the 1, shows you the pattern if the chart was continuously tiled.

    Attachment 2464

    Every type shares one value with four of the other types, and shares no value with the remaining types. As you can see in the charts, a type shares a value with every other type that is on the same row or column. Naturally, a type shares both values only with itself. So as an example, the 1 is anticipating and suppressed, it relates to the 2 and 6 because they are both anticipating, and it relates to the 3 and 5, because they are both suppressed.
    Thank you for the awesome work you did in putting this thread together.
    I think it should be nominated for the "
    Haight Classics".

    As far as the first variable, I'm pretty sure I do the Avoidant the most.

    I don't think I understand the second variable well enough yet.
    I do some of each and I can't tell them apart enough to differentiate.

    Can you help me?

  7. #57
    にゃん runvardh's Avatar
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    So if I did this right I seem to come out 4>5>6 IPS...
    Dreams are best served manifest and tangible.

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  8. #58
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    That's definitely a valid type in our system.

    IPS seems like a common variant stacking on this forum.

  9. #59
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
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    So... thinking about it, when I've objected to the Enneagram before it's been because I've scored almost equally in 5, 7 and 8. I feel like I should be an SIP in your system, and 5 would be my tertiary number, though I can't decide which is first or second of 7 and 8. If it were an MBTI type I'd have an X there as though I couldn't decide on a preference.

    Is there room in your system for this? For me to say perhaps 7/8>5 SIP?
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  10. #60
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    7/8/5 doesn't fit in our system. 5 is diagonal from 7 and 8. There's a chart on the first page.

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