# Thread: The new and improved Enneagram! From the sponge and evan.

1. It seemed to work for me pretty well.

7>8>9. IPS

I did the whole thing and got 7>8>9>3>2>4>5>6>1. I think the order seems pretty accurate, but I've just recently started learning more about enneagram. I definitely feel like I am least like 1.

2. On further reflection Sponge, I think you shaved off the wrong variable from the original Enneagram -- you should have snipped off the emotion variable and left the triads, and you'd get what you were after: A simpler version of the same type system. After all, emotion is the least relevant portion of each archetype, and often the first to be discarded when a type doesn't fit. For example, I fit the 3 archetype far better than the 8 archetype, but in typing myself a Three I'm forced to discard the emotional variable, because I am turbulent (so in your system I would be an 8 -- probably an 8w4).

3. Originally Posted by Aleksei
On further reflection Sponge, I think you shaved off the wrong variable from the original Enneagram -- you should have snipped off the emotion variable and left the triads, and you'd get what you were after: A simpler version of the same type system. After all, emotion is the least relevant portion of each archetype, and often the first to be discarded when a type doesn't fit. For example, I fit the 3 archetype far better than the 8 archetype, but in typing myself a Three I'm forced to discard the emotional variable, because I am turbulent (so in your system I would be an 8 -- probably an 8w4).
The triads? You mean like 8, 1 ,9?

4. Yup. Head, heart and gut. They seem to have more explanatory power, in addition to the behavior variable, than behavior + emotion do.

5. Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan
The new notation.

The concept behind the new wing system can actually be used to create any entire ranking list of the types. for me, it goes like this 1 > 6 > 5 > 2 > 3 > 4 > 9 > 8 > 7. I was able to conclude that based on just on my primary and secondary wings.

The whole list becomes evident once you know what's in second place, and which variable shifts first. If a person is a 4, and their primary wing is 9 and their secondary wing is 6, then I know the whole list will be like this: 4 > 9 > 6 > 5 > 8 > 2 > 1 > 7 > 3. Do you understand how I can know that?

Since that degree of information is so useful, I want everyone using this system to list their primary and secondary wings from left to right, like this: 1w6w5. Or you can write 1/6/5, 1>6>5, 1-6-5, etc.. That is the minimum amount need to know everything about your core type variables.

Of course, we must not forget about the Instincts. It has been decided that people should list their wing system separately, using the Instinct notation I had invented before, like this I-P-S. That stands for Intimate, self-Preservational, Social. Just list all three in order along side the other type and wings. 1w6w5 I-P-S. It may look lengthy, but I assure you that it is more convenient than the alternatives. I had considered putting all three variables together in one list, but that resulted in a list with 27 types, and that was just way too awkward.

So there you have it! That's what has been developed for now. Odds are, questions still remain for some regarding original features such as the directions of (dis)integration or the steps of health, etc.. Those are still under consideration, and you may PM to discuss that.

I'm confused. :confused: Do you think you can explain this more clearly?

6. Originally Posted by IndyAnnaJoan
I'm confused. :confused: Do you think you can explain this more clearly?
Hopefully I will tomorrow. Or technically today some time after I wake up.

The huge problem with this thread is that all the images in the OPs have disappeared again!
This happens every time there's a server change or an upgrade of some crap. I guess it's futile to put them back.

7. I keep forgetting to explain this!

It really is harder without the pictures, though.

I wonder if I can PM you the images that used to be here, Indy.

8. Ask someone on the mod team to put them in OP?

9. Originally Posted by Silently Honest
Ask someone on the mod team to put them in OP?
Seeing as how I already did that once after a previous server change, I don't really feel like it. How many times am I going to have to do that?

10. I have some observations to make about the essay above, and I found one error. The observation is that your 1-2-6 triad corresponds to the Compliant personality, your 3-8-7 triad corresponds to the Aggressive personality, and your 5-4-9 triad corresponds to the Withdrawn personality. See pp 434-36 of Personality Types.

The error is your statement that the wing of each type is "the one you are second-most like." But that is not an accurate description of wing theory. The wing is the "second side of your overall personality" (PT, p.43). Riso then goes on to state that the traits of that wing may be a strong or very slight influence on your dominant type. The fact is that we humans possess traits from all 9 points on the Enneagram, but this does not disprove wing-theory.

Your essay then moves on to use your own definition of wings to replace traditional wing-theory (of whatever variant) with your own, and all I can say is that in doing so you no longer have wing-theory but something else. That doesn't mean your concluding theory is wrong, but it is based off of a false definition of wings and therefore isn't really about wings at all. So it's more like a straw-man version of wing-theory.

There is a questionable straw-man argument related to your primary axiom: 'The need for the wing type to be "adjacent" didn't make sense, since as my variable system indicates, the actual order of the numbers that the types were assigned is meaningless. There is no sensible reason that 7s should be next to 6s, for example.'

This one takes more explanation. While there is something rather arbitrary or "meaningless" in one sense, in another sense the 9 types are related in groups of threes by means of triads and centers. It is more practical to have 2-3-4 next to each other as they symbolize primary issues with emotions. The 2 projects emotion, the 3 represses or under-expresses emotion, and the 4 introjects emotion. The 5-6-7 center is related to the intellect, and the 8-9-1 is related to instinct according to the manner with which each type in the triad deals with instincts.

The 9 being on top has always held special significance as a symbol of unity for the entire structure of types.

So while there may be an arbitrary element here, there is indeed a purpose and a plan that goes back to original Enneagram theory given to us by P.D. Ouspensky (The Fourth Way), G.I Gurdjieff (who brought us the enneagram symbol), and Oscar Ichavo (particularly this latter who brought these ideas to the West). These are spiritual teachers who instructed students on the spiritual side of human nature. Any change to that original purpose and structure not only negates wing theory, it negates the Enneagram and leaves you with 9 types of a system by another arbitrary name of your own choosing. To treat the Enneagram itself as an arbitrary construct negates at least a century of teaching on the subject, even if you choose to retain the Enneagram symbol itself.

The origin of the Enneagram's construction, along with the ordering of the types, is found here.

There you will find explanations of the Laws of 3 and 7, as well as the musical tones associated with 7 of them (the Octave). There is also a chemistry analogy presented here for the Law of 3, C+O+N > H, and a "cosmic octave."

So now you see that there is much more to the Enneagram than a typing system. And this is just the tip of the iceberg. It is a small part of a massive system of spiritual growth. But if all you see is a typing system, then there is indeed no basis for supporting the traditional system, and reconstructing it according to any design is highly possible.

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