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  1. #181
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Here BTW is the image again, since I had to move a year ago (It was a year ago today, in fact!) since AL shut down is ftp space:
    APS Profile: Inclusion: e/w=1/6 (Supine) |Control: e/w=7/3 (Choleric) |Affection: e/w=1/9 (Supine)
    Ti 54.3 | Ne 47.3 | Si 37.8 | Fe 17.7 | Te 22.5 | Ni 13.4 | Se 18.9 | Fi 27.9

    Temperament (APS) from scratch -- MBTI Type from scratch
    Type Ideas

  2. #182
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    I'm just going to boil this down....

    Quote Originally Posted by panda View Post
    Then again, is there any proof of the eight MBTI functions?
    There is no proof that they tangeably exist. In fact, it aggravates me when people discuss and analyze the MBTI as if the 8 processes were like real forces. However, what the MBTI at least has over the Enneagra, is a more logically sound structure.

    Quote Originally Posted by panda View Post
    I don't see the use of logic to try and find the truth.
    I don't see the point in trying to find the truth without logic.

    Quote Originally Posted by panda View Post
    Bleh, my argument sure was weak >.<
    Nobody's going to lynch you for it.

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackCat View Post
    This is a different system of enneagram, since they are not sticking to the traditional system. There isn't integration, no levels of health, no wings that are next to type. Without that, in my opinion, this isn't enneagram. You are just blocking together on the surface traits of the various enneagram types to describe people.
    I suppose there are a number of reasons to suggest that we should not have called it the enneagram at all. However, it is obvious enough that this is built from the enneagram that someone would have picked it up if we didn't mention it. I wonder how that person would have responded.

    Quote Originally Posted by princessleia1982 View Post
    This theory is pure genius! I think you should call it Enneagram Stacks and keep the original descriptions of the types and just use the type with the two wings to combine into a certain type of person like the lover, the boss...etc...
    Here is my data:
    Behavior Emotion Motive
    Avoiding Turbulent Intimate
    Pursuing Controlled Social
    Anticpating Suppressed Preservation

    1. Avoiding Turbulent=4
    2. Avoiding Control=9
    3. Turbulent Pursuing=8
    4. Avoiding Suppressed=5
    5. Turbulent Anticipating=6
    6. Pursuing Controlled=7
    7. Pursuing Suppressed=3
    8. Controlled Anticipating=2
    9. Anticipating Suppressed=1

    So, my final result is:
    4>9>8 I-S-P.

    And that amazes me because when I read all of the types, I realized that those three fit me best. I had a hard time believing that I was a 5w but I knew that I wasn't a 3w with the old system and this shows that a 3w is almost at the bottom of the list! WOW! Great work! Now maybe I can help you make it more readable to F personalities because the T jargon was hard to interpret even for me as an INFP.
    And from one extreme to another. Thank you. Everything you have there pans out with the system provided in this thread.

    In response to Eric, I'm still not sure about calling Anticipation the middle of Avoiding and Pursuing. I had at one time drawn a tree, with the base decision splitting into two brances, one being action and the other being inaction. The inaction terminated immedietely into antiicpation. The action than split again into the two branches of acting on desire/being lured by benefits and acting on fear/being repelled by costs. These respectively amount to pursuing and avoiding.I suppose, perhaps, a complete balance between pursuing and avoiding would make someone inactive and appear to be anticipating. However, there may be subtle differences.

    In my idea of how these things worked, someone that is anticipating is waits for things to come to them, or lets the wind carry them away, but then accepts or rejects whatever comes to them this way based on their values. Comparatively, a person that is perfeclty struck between pursuing and avoiding sounds to me to unbudgeable and indecisive stuck and indecisive.

    I'd like to add that another reason for my way of defining it is that I believe a person can be Avoidant > Pursuent > Anticipant, or Pursuent > Avoidant > Anticipant. Such people are restless people. People that can not take the passive or stable role.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


    _________________________________
    INTP. Type 1>6>5. sx/sp.
    Live and let live will just amount to might makes right

  3. #183
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    Hello my bipedalled friend...

    You are definitely 9w1...probably sp/sx.

  4. #184
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Who is the bipedalled friend?
    Go to sleep, iguana.


    _________________________________
    INTP. Type 1>6>5. sx/sp.
    Live and let live will just amount to might makes right

  5. #185
    Member reality.ensues's Avatar
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    Forgive me if this was already mentioned, but I don't want to search through nearly twenty pages.

    When you said that adjacent types have no relation to each other, I don't think that was correct. The two variables you explained are the Harmonic and Hornevian groups, which I were aware of before reading this topic. However, the groups you're missing are the three triads of the enneagram: Instinctive (1, 8, 9), Feeling (2, 3, 4), and Thinking (5, 6, 7). Without these the Enneagram wouldn't have been an enneagram to begin with; it would have been a rectangular chart like the one you made. Factoring in the triads, 8 could indeed be a wing of 9.

    I'm not saying you're wrong, I was just wondering about this.

    Edit: Also, these charts show that the ordering of the types is far from arbitrary.
    Last edited by reality.ensues; 11-15-2009 at 07:50 PM. Reason: for more information
    Isn't life under the sun just a crazy, crazy, crazy dream? Isn't life just a mirage of the world before the world? Why am I here and not over there? When did time begin? Where does space end? Where do you and I begin?
    INfp. Fi~Ti>Te~Ne>Si>Ni>Fe~Se
    Level 5 4w5. Screw instinctual subtypes. (Ranking: 4>9~5>6>1~2>3~7~8)
    Good~Neutral>Evil, Neutral>Chaotic>Lawful
    Melancholic~Supine>Sanguine>Phlegmatic>Choleric
    Signal Patterns

  6. #186
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by reality.ensues View Post
    When you said that adjacent types have no relation to each other, I don't think that was correct. The two variables you explained are the Harmonic and Hornevian groups, which I were aware of before reading this topic. However, the groups you're missing are the three triads of the enneagram: Instinctive (1, 8, 9), Feeling (2, 3, 4), and Thinking (5, 6, 7). Without these the Enneagram wouldn't have been an enneagram to begin with; it would have been a rectangular chart like the one you made. Factoring in the triads, 8 could indeed be a wing of 9.
    I am aware of all of this. However, the fact is I could do more triads than that. Mathematically there are far more than three ways to arrange it. For instance, I considered a [1,4,7][2,5,8][3,6,9] grouping. I could potentially put any two types in the same group, in some way. If this were a base two system, it would be dichotomous, and I could at least find logical oppsites. Being that it's base three means it's even easier for me to find something in common between all types. The point I'm making is that by considering all arrangements, any type could potentially be the wing of any type. You then have a system so indiscriminate as to mean nothing at all.

    The counter to this, would be if the wings and the lines were arranged in some way that clearly only makes sense in accordance to the particular triads that were chosen, and I have not seen proof of this.

    The goal then is not to include every possible grouping. The goal was to make a more logically sound system, which I already tried to elaborate on to some extent in previous posts. The original enneagram gets too specific about it's type descriptions. More than is logicall warranted. It would either have to have way more types to include all possibilities, or it would have to be more conservative in its descriptions. Since we still have nine types, clearly we opted for the latter.

    It's all a part of a still incomplete goal to sort of clarify the generally murky Enneagram.

    Quote Originally Posted by reality.ensues View Post
    I'm not saying you're wrong, I was just wondering about this.

    Edit: Also, these charts show that the ordering of the types is far from arbitrary.
    I think what I said above sufficiently responds to this.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


    _________________________________
    INTP. Type 1>6>5. sx/sp.
    Live and let live will just amount to might makes right

  7. #187
    Member reality.ensues's Avatar
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    Yeah, I see your point now. Thanks.
    Isn't life under the sun just a crazy, crazy, crazy dream? Isn't life just a mirage of the world before the world? Why am I here and not over there? When did time begin? Where does space end? Where do you and I begin?
    INfp. Fi~Ti>Te~Ne>Si>Ni>Fe~Se
    Level 5 4w5. Screw instinctual subtypes. (Ranking: 4>9~5>6>1~2>3~7~8)
    Good~Neutral>Evil, Neutral>Chaotic>Lawful
    Melancholic~Supine>Sanguine>Phlegmatic>Choleric
    Signal Patterns

  8. #188
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    Hm. Avoiding/Suppressive seems to work well, and I would've typed myself as a 5w1 had I the chance in the previous system... "Fascinating, Captain"
    INTP,
    Neutral Good/Lawful Good even split. 5w4 sp/sx melancholic/supine, even split. Yes, I stole this method of placement from black cat.

  9. #189
    #005645 phthalocyanine's Avatar
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    i know this is an old thread, but FYI, folks, the chart images don't seem to load anymore (at least they didn't for me).




    because i found this system very intriguing (though initially difficult for me to work with due to distraction!), i attempted to give it a try again, even without the charts...

    Avoidant> Anticipating > Pursuing
    Turbulent > Suppressive > Controlling
    Intimate > Preservational > Social

    (decided 'avoidant' is my stronger preference)

    i tried my hand at deciphering my breakdown, and came up with this:

    Avoiding/Turbulent = 4
    Avoiding/Suppressive = 5
    Anticipating/Turbulent = 6
    Avoiding/Controlling = 9
    Pursuing/Turbulent = 8
    Anticipating/Suppressive = 1
    Anticipating/Controlling = 2
    Pursuing/Suppressive = 3
    Pursuing/Controlling = 7

    is this correct, according to this system?

    would that mean my original 4w5 typing is actually correct?

    ...i find the placement of 1 on this list to be surprisingly low, especially with 8 above it in the sequence, though i agree that 3 and 7 fit well 'on the bottom' for me.

    "We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.."
    -Oscar Wilde



  10. #190
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phthalocyanine View Post
    i know this is an old thread, but FYI, folks, the chart images don't seem to load anymore (at least they didn't for me).
    Yeah, they have disappeared. It's very sad. The thread is too old for me to edit and fix anyhow.



    Quote Originally Posted by phthalocyanine View Post
    because i found this system very intriguing (though initially difficult for me to work with due to distraction!), i attempted to give it a try again, even without the charts...

    Avoidant> Anticipating > Pursuing
    Turbulent > Suppressive > Controlling
    Intimate > Preservational > Social

    (decided 'avoidant' is my stronger preference)

    i tried my hand at deciphering my breakdown, and came up with this:

    Avoiding/Turbulent = 4
    Avoiding/Suppressive = 5
    Anticipating/Turbulent = 6
    Avoiding/Controlling = 9
    Pursuing/Turbulent = 8
    Anticipating/Suppressive = 1
    Anticipating/Controlling = 2
    Pursuing/Suppressive = 3
    Pursuing/Controlling = 7

    is this correct, according to this system?
    All of those are correct. However, the sequence doesn't exactly have to go like that.

    Quote Originally Posted by phthalocyanine View Post
    would that mean my original 4w5 typing is actually correct?
    It's honestly hard to say because there is such a change in the system that the reasons that you go this result and the reason you got that result might be more different than you think.

    Quote Originally Posted by phthalocyanine View Post
    ...i find the placement of 1 on this list to be surprisingly low, especially with 8 above it in the sequence, though i agree that 3 and 7 fit well 'on the bottom' for me.
    And here's my point about the exact order. I think the top 3 and the bottom three can be deduced. The middle three are still something of a mystery as it were, and I just treat them for all intents and purposes as equal. How should the middle go? At this time, I can't say. Maybe the 1 should actually be the top of the middle block.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


    _________________________________
    INTP. Type 1>6>5. sx/sp.
    Live and let live will just amount to might makes right

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