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  1. #151
    #005645 phthalocyanine's Avatar
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    do the results of a test like this provide any helpful information with determining wings?

    i read the entire OP but seem to need some help figuring mine out.

  2. #152
    Shaman BlackCat's Avatar
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    Well not for me, since in traditional enneagram I'm a 9w8 and I identify with that type very strongly.

    But for enneagram tests I'd say that it would be a decent indicator, it would tell you what types you are close to and what you aren't, so in this system it would better indicate your type's wings. And I still don't understand their wing system very much either, it's difficult to grasp.

    And don't use that test, it's garbage.
    () 9w8-3w4-7w6 tritype.

    sCueI (primary Inquisition)

  3. #153
    #005645 phthalocyanine's Avatar
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    how about the ones on similarminds?

  4. #154
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    As far as this system goes, no currently existing test might help you with the wings. However, I can still think of ways that it might be possible.

    I don't honesty remember the sort of questions that the similarminds test asked, so I don't recall how good it was. What I do know is that you should just ignore what it says about your variant because it goes about that all wrong.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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    Live and let live will just amount to might makes right

  5. #155
    Senior Member SciVo's Avatar
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    Hokay. I think I got it figured out. 9-2-4 sp/so is my current best guess in your enneagram-like system, but I only got through page 1 of the thread. I'll read the rest later.
    INFP ~ Fi/Ne/Ni/Te ~ 9-2-4 sp/so

  6. #156
    #005645 phthalocyanine's Avatar
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    hm..thanks blackcat & poriferan for the feedback.

    i always test as a 4 and either as self-preservational or social.

    i know i gravitate toward point 1 lot, maybe also to 9, 5, 7, and 6.

    i'll have another look and see what i come up with.

  7. #157
    Senior Member SciVo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Delphyne View Post
    The enneagram types are based on nine different passions, but there are already at least four ways to group the types into 3 x 3 categories. Your variables are nothing new, only your names are. Your first variable is normally called the Hornevian Groups, your second the Harmonic Groups. Additionally there are the Triads, which include the Heart Triade (2,3,4), the Head Triad (5,6,7) and the Instinctive Triad (8,91), and the Dominant Affect Groups, which include the Attachment-Based Group (3,6,9), the Frustration-Based Group (1,4,7) and the Rejection-Based Group (2,5,8).


    Each type shares values and commonalities with every other type. You can only cut out types if you reject the two other categories Im talking about. Nines and Eights both belong to the Instinctive Triad.
    You know, I think that I'd rather include those other two triads and throw out the instinctual variants. I don't see what the IVs add. For example, how would you construct a test that would reliably distinguish between avoidant (or the Hornevian equivalent) and sp? Whereas at a glance, it looks like adding the heart/head/instinctive triads and the dominant affect groups would make every type/wing1/wing2 combination possible with only four variables, and I think that's pretty cool.
    INFP ~ Fi/Ne/Ni/Te ~ 9-2-4 sp/so

  8. #158
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SciVo View Post
    You know, I think that I'd rather include those other two triads and throw out the instinctual variants. I don't see what the IVs add. For example, how would you construct a test that would reliably distinguish between avoidant (or the Hornevian equivalent) and sp?
    I don't really see how avoidance as I have defined it and self-preservation overlap.

    My biggest dissatisfaction with the system so far is that I feel the behavior trait definitions are too vague and lacking in orientation. But even when accounting for that, I don't know how they'd be indistinguishable from any given instinct.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  9. #159
    Senior Member SciVo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTJMom View Post
    Thank you for the awesome work you did in putting this thread together.
    I think it should be nominated for the "
    Haight Classics".

    As far as the first variable, I'm pretty sure I do the Avoidant the most.

    I don't think I understand the second variable well enough yet.
    I do some of each and I can't tell them apart enough to differentiate.

    Can you help me?
    I can only explain my personal perspective. I'm primarily Avoidant/Controlling. In early adolescence, I practiced expressions in the mirror until I was confident that I knew exactly what each one felt like from the inside, and that I could produce any emotional affect in a snap. I have such a flexible, expressive face that some people can still read the flickers of my initial reactions before I get a chance to control them, but I get better at it every year.

    My control is so important to me that I only regress to Turbulent and helplessly spew forth my feelings when under extraordinary stress, whereas I advance to Anticipating when I'm at my most mindfully present. I'm suspicious of being Pursuing, since that much excitement blinds my social perceptiveness and ability to anticipate, so that never ends well. Even worse, I find the very idea of being Suppressive loathsome, as that would separate me from my core self, making me fundamentally inauthentic -- but of course Fi is my primary cognitive process, so that's just me, not a general rule.

    I hope that seeing how it looks from a Controlling perspective helps you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    I don't really see how avoidance as I have defined it and self-preservation overlap.

    My biggest dissatisfaction with the system so far is that I feel the behavior trait definitions are too vague and lacking in orientation. But even when accounting for that, I don't know how they'd be indistinguishable from any given instinct.
    But that's not exactly what I said. I'm talking epistemology, not ontology, since the beingness of the instinctual variants is not enough to construct a useful taxonomy without a way to reliably distinguish between them and the 9 types. To get even more specific, how would you write a test that would distinguish between someone who stays home because their primary instinct is self-protection and their ego is safer inside, and someone who stays home because they judge an unfavorable cost-benefit ratio for going out? Heck, how would you even explain the difference??

    ETA: I don't expect an answer tonight. I'd like to think that those are deep questions, so I'd rather you slept on them. Though if you're on the East Coast, I probably didn't need to say that.
    Last edited by SciVo; 09-08-2009 at 11:04 PM. Reason: merging consecutive posts + ETA
    INFP ~ Fi/Ne/Ni/Te ~ 9-2-4 sp/so

  10. #160
    Junior Member Lexan's Avatar
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    Lightbulb Well...

    Hey,

    I didn't really read much into this system you've come up with, Magic Periferan, but I'm going to say now that I'm someone who believes in The Enneagram, wings and all (except I don't believe in the trifix, that's one theory that has never made sense to me). It's strange, because The Enneagram would seem far more superficial and shallow from a distance, but it's been of far more use to me than MBTI ever was. Originally I wasn't sure whether I was a 4 or a 5, then realized after more research that I was a 4w5. I think 4s often identify their type and wing more immediately than other types, due to a more profound desire to understand the self. This is why a lot of fours are drawn to The Enneagram - it's purpose is for self improvement and understanding. Even though I pretty much fully believe in the wing theory (and I believe that, even though one wing may be more predominant, both wings are highly influential to a personality) , I don't think it's the most important aspect of the system. The Instinctual Variants are probably more important, as they indicate the area/s of imbalance. The use of The Enneagram symbol in the personality system is important, because the geometric shape indicates the directions of integration and disintegration for each type. This is actually vital for the initial purpose of The Enneagram - it is a tool for personal growth, liberation and transformation. By observing the security/stress (or integration/disintegration) points, one may be obliged to understand the areas in which one should strive to improve, and where one falls short, what one's weaknesses are. By identifying these, one can observe when one being detrimental to oneself and others - which may not have been observed previously. Basically, it's all about developing awareness.

    The Enneagram is hardly a scientific or proven theory, but it does follow a logic, and it has seemed to be profoundly true as far as most of my experiences are concerned. The fact that a lot of people here can't decipher their type according to the original system is strange to me, because the truth of The Enneagram in regards to the human condition became obvious soon after I discovered it. Can't say the same for any other personality system I've come across. It's a shame that some people can't see that, but I can say that thankfully one doesn't need The Enneagram to grow as a person. Best of luck to all of you.

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