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  1. #1
    You are what you love themightyfetus's Avatar
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    Default (Dis)integration

    I think learning about integration/disintegration is a great way to discover one's type. Reflect and think about how you are at your healthiest and unhealthiest. This can really help steer things away from stereotypes, I think.

    However...I find it hard to find actual descriptions of integration and disintegration. I just hear, "4 disintegrates to 2." Are there any descriptions out there that actually explain this? Can I find information longer than just a sentence?
    Yet I know, if I stepped aside
    Released the controls, you would open my eyes
    That somehow, all of this mess
    Is just my attempt to know the worth of my life
    .

    Mercury - Sleeping At Last

    3w2 // 6w7 // 9w1
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  2. #2

    Default

    I don't really understand why 4 should disintegrate to 2. In my personal experience, when I am at my worst I am usually even more introverted than usual, I don't want contact with people and I can become pretty rude, very withdrawn and isolated while I concentrate only at myself and my feelings or misfortunes.
    This is not very much what 2s do, because they become needy and manipulative.
    What I've heard from other 4s, most of them describe the same experience with being unhealthy as I do... I don't really see the 2 in it.
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  3. #3
    Senior Member RedAmazoneFriendZone's Avatar
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    Default

    To answer the doubts above, there are two kinds of 4 : the 4 alpha that disintegrates in 2 (if you have the instinctive in last position), and the 4 mu that disintegrates in 1 (if you have the mental as a last preference).

    The 4 alpha turns into a 2 alpha so He/she becomes very possessive, manipulates under a mask of "helper". He becomes very proud of it.

    The 4 mu turns into a 1 mu so He/she is convinced about his/her very unfair situation. Others are responsive of his/ her suffering. He/she criticizes others very openly, denying any anger.
    ALL THAT WE SEE OR SEEM TO BE IS BUT A DREAM WITHIN A DREAM

  4. #4

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RedAmazoneFriendZone View Post
    To answer the doubts above, there are two kinds of 4 : the 4 alpha that disintegrates in 2 (if you have the instinctive in last position), and the 4 mu that disintegrates in 1 (if you have the mental as a last preference).

    The 4 alpha turns into a 2 alpha so He/she becomes very possessive, manipulates under a mask of "helper". He becomes very proud of it.

    The 4 mu turns into a 1 mu so He/she is convinced about his/her very unfair situation. Others are responsive of his/ her suffering. He/she criticizes others very openly, denying any anger.
    Wrong because 1 is 4's point of growth...how can it be a disintegration?

  5. #5
    Senior Member RedAmazoneFriendZone's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Inis Mona View Post
    Wrong because 1 is 4's point of growth...how can it be a disintegration?
    Because there is not just 1 kind of 4, I wrote it. But if you wanna feel right, I am not feeling like teaching something to someone who thinks directly I am wrong !
    ALL THAT WE SEE OR SEEM TO BE IS BUT A DREAM WITHIN A DREAM

  6. #6

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RedAmazoneFriendZone View Post
    Because there is not just 1 kind of 4, I wrote it. But if you wanna feel right, I am not feeling like teaching something to someone who thinks directly I am wrong !
    According to enneagram theory there's one type of 4 which disintergrates to 2 and integrates to 1. If you believe there are more type 4s and a 4 can disintergrate to 1 than you're probably not talking about enneagram.
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  7. #7
    Senior Member RedAmazoneFriendZone's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Inis Mona View Post
    According to enneagram theory there's one type of 4 which disintergrates to 2 and integrates to 1. If you believe there are more type 4s and a 4 can disintergrate to 1 than you're probably not talking about enneagram.
    I have an enneagram diploma my dear......... anyway think what you want. Aurevoir I just wanted to bring some info . Now I don't want anymore !
    ALL THAT WE SEE OR SEEM TO BE IS BUT A DREAM WITHIN A DREAM
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  8. #8
    You are what you love themightyfetus's Avatar
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    Default

    @cascadeco @Alaska @OrangeAppled @Qlip You guys are also 4's, maybe you can help answer this question. What is your disintegration like to 2?
    Yet I know, if I stepped aside
    Released the controls, you would open my eyes
    That somehow, all of this mess
    Is just my attempt to know the worth of my life
    .

    Mercury - Sleeping At Last

    3w2 // 6w7 // 9w1

  9. #9
    Honeyed Water thoughtlost's Avatar
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    Default

    I don't think "disintegration" looks the same for everyone in the specific type, but for some people it really does help them determine their true type.

    I had a type 2 friend who clearly disintegrated and I seriously thought she was pretty 8ish. She was going through a rough time at her knew college. She would always complain about how incompetent people were and she liked to take charge of things and always tried to put herself in a leadership position. She would talk about how she wishes she could make her emotions go away because she hated them so much... it made her "ineffective". As I got to know her, I realized that this was her way of getting putting to be dependent on her ...in a "non-emotional/objective" way.

    I have mistyped 6s as 3s because some of them can become too dependent on what other people think about them to feel secure. I read some place that this happens mostly to 6w7s. I hear that they can lie to themselves about themselves to cover up their insecurities and some of them will be afraid of taking risks so they don't look stupid to others. So if this is the case, then 6s show signs of unhealthiness when they place too much stock on other people's perceptions about themselves.

    I think this can be true of me. Sometimes, you just want people to like you. It's not like a 2 ...it's literally purely "look at me!!! tell me I am okay/pretty/smart/creative/funny/whatever it is you want the person to believe" so you can feel secure. Lots of 6s mistype as 2w3 or 3w2 for that reason because it's typically attributed to those types. With true 2s, they feel that they need to earn love. But with 6s, they can do deceitful things (like a 3) because it's simply about allaying your fears... not earning love. Oh and it's not that 6s intentionally lie to themselves (so they may not realize they are doing this). Just like 3s aren't TRYING to lie to themselves... it's just the "story" they formulate to function in the world and feel capable or whatever
    You are so arbitrary.
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  10. #10
    I could do things Hard's Avatar
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    Default

    Integration and disintegration are pretty important for enneagram. The thing people need to keep in mind (and it is kind of difficult to do) is your integration and disintegration points are not types you become like, but you fuse in good or bad elements of those types into yourself.

    Both integration and disintegration is a large portion of how I have confirmed my type as a 1. When I grow I become more 7 like- I am able to be free with my convictions and not have to assert them at every turn or impose them on another. I can relax genuinely and move forward without having everything nailed down as there will be an implicit faith/trust that I have the skills, and knowledge, and that others around me do as well. When I fall I become more 4 like- I become very resolute and unmoving. I will misconstrue personal opinion for objective fact. I will become impossibly critical to everyone including myself. I will wallow in misery and focus internally far too much and I become obsessive over being a good and right person and totally lose it when that doesn't come to be and be very self-destructive. People on the forum have witnessed me go through both of these in the past as well.

    Think about how you fuse in the qualities into your type. If you think of yourself as becoming another type, it will lead you astray.
    MBTI: ExxJ tetramer
    Functions: Fe > Te > Ni > Se > Si > Ti > Fi > Ne
    Enneagram: 1w2 - 3w4 - 6w5 (The Taskmaster) | sp/so
    Socionics: β-E dimer | -
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    Alignment: Lawful Neutral
    External Perception: Nohari and Johari

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