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[Traditional Enneagram] Head types are no fear types in my eyes.

Ron

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in my understanding it's a misconception to see head types as the fear triad or fear types.

all types have their basic fear patterns. every individual has specific fears etc.

when you think patternwise about dangers in order to avoid them you're not a fear type in my eyes. it's a way to deal with things. that's all.

with the help of this thinking pattern head types also avoid the feeling of fear.
 

Duffy

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when you think patternwise about dangers in order to avoid them you're not a fear type in my eyes.

The fear triad still makes sense, especially with what you've written here. A person doesn't have to be embodying the characteristic of fear itself. When I think about the head triads in my life, there's not much relationship to shame or anger, outside of basic reactions to them like anyone else...

It's like saying 9s are anger types or 2s are shame types. 9s don't have a natural comfort with all things anger related....and 2s can adopt an image of goodness to alleviate feelings of defectiveness and shame, but both types relationship to these things predominates their type pattern. -In my opinion.
 

Ron

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The fear triad still makes sense, especially with what you've written here. A person doesn't have to be embodying the characteristic of fear itself. When I think about the head triads in my life, there's not much relationship to shame or anger, outside of basic reactions to them like anyone else...

It's like saying 9s are anger types or 2s are shame types. 9s don't have a natural comfort with all things anger related....and 2s can adopt an image of goodness to alleviate feelings of defectiveness and shame, but both types relationship to these things predominates their type pattern. -In my opinion.

dualism of shame/ hauteur (countershame) is rather a fourish pattern in my understanding.

"image types" makes sense though in my eyes. self image and its presentation stands and falls with self worth .

"shame types" does not get at the heart of the "image types" pattern for me. i'd call it the "self worth types" instead.

"gut types" makes sense to me.

"anger types"? !
anger is the emotional motor of self-assertation with gut types. also an expression of deeply felt injustice.
it is rather denied, suppressed and little expressed with 9. rather expressed by passive-aggression and seldom directly.
with 8 it's much more expressed directly and it often helps to get things done.
with 1 it gets rather transformed to create a subjective ideal conception with its principles and acting accordingly -come what may.

i see justice as the driving force of the self-assertation with gut types. anger as the fuel. i'd call it the "moral types" or "justice types" instead of anger types.
doesn't matter if the own justice of 8 looks amoral to others sometimes.

with head types i see rather a ratio cage with the correspondingly strong rational awareness.
the latter concerns not only security, focus on dangers, doubts , assumptions, nervousness, alarm, victimhood, objective understanding, power of knowledge, planing or having many path to choose to find luck...etc

it's generally about an anticipatory thinking style that is future- oriented.

so i'd call it the "anticipatory types" or "rational awareness types" instead of fear types.
 

Duffy

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dualism of shame/ hauteur (countershame) is rather a fourish pattern in my understanding.

I think this is one way 4 shows it's connection to type 2. They do a version of pride.
 

Ron

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I think this is one way 4 shows it's connection to type 2. They do a version of pride.

it was about shame (and "shame types") and not pride.
dualism of shame/ hauteur (countershame); dualism of envy/idealization of otherness; dualism of longing/veiling and dualism of artificial/authentic for example are core patterns of 4 in my understanding.
directions of integration (growth) or disintegration (stress), 1 or 2 with 4, are different things.
 

Duffy

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it was about shame (and "shame types") and not pride.
dualism of shame/ hauteur (countershame); dualism of envy/idealization of otherness; dualism of longing/veiling and dualism of artificial/authentic for example are core patterns of 4 in my understanding.
directions of integration (growth) or disintegration (stress), 1 or 2 with 4, are different things.

I'm aware of this. I was proposing another angle / way of looking at it, albeit I'm going off-topic.
 

Ron

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I'm aware of this. I was proposing another angle / way of looking at it, albeit I'm going off-topic.

yeah, you're not the only one who "was proposing another angle / way of looking at it" as you can see with all my posts.
i do not see anyone going off-topic though. you came up with shame of 2 and "shame types". that's all.
 

KitchenFly

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in my understanding it's a misconception to see head types as the fear triad or fear types.

all types have their basic fear patterns. every individual has specific fears etc.

when you think patternwise about dangers in order to avoid them you're not a fear type in my eyes. it's a way to deal with things. that's all.

with the help of this thinking pattern head types also avoid the feeling of fear.

Hi Ron, at one level I get were your at and that's natural it's easy regardless of type and type and type to become cognitively mono syllabic in thought in regards to making sense of vast complexity,s that yield to a stereo similar within our own perception formed by our own part portion perspective.

The Triad that contains Points: 4 and 5 and 6, deals with first the information input from the head centre to determine,make discussions , and construct choices to act or act upon.

These three component actions require the remaining two centre's form which a cognitive flows flux is sustained.

Anyway the guts of the matter is The Head types / The Fear Types / The Thinking Types, or the types belonging to the grouping that centre upon the output influence of Point:6 all are influenced but the grey and white mater inside the scull and all the rest of it that the brain consists of.

For the types Five, Six and Severn, stress is experienced as agenda is ordered from the head centre, "if I, what if, I'm going to" , "I will, I may, I shall" ,("observe", "introspection", "plan")

these examples of deal with action at the personal level it is identity driven self determined action lead, it is lead by the head centre, "I"- in contrast to - environment.

Fear is synonymous with being alive due to two of the three basic component factors we are all influenced directly by, Creation -(the creative force) and Entropy -( the destructive force / entropy) or at the personal inner level entropy could be defined as the intropic force, fear based acts or fear biased actions or fear lead ignorance.

Anyway Agenda is the key to understanding a context for the three stresses experienced from the mental or mind lead by the influences or flux flow input from the three centre's.

To help you out Ron her is a link you may believe is interesting.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hIK62vd-QvQ
.
.

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0882085c47124686e72f0c30d967759d.jpg
 
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Ron

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yeah, i hope, i help you out when one calls the head types wrongly (imo) the "fear types" - see above.
 

KitchenFly

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yeah, i hope, i help you out when one calls the head types wrongly (imo) the "fear types" - see above.


One way of looking at it is there are three centre's Hart Centre,Thinking Centre, Gut Centre and their is a three into three thing going on, so from a hart to head like link it can be called fear types triad, from the gut to head like link it can be called head triad, and from the head perspective view point it can be called the thinking types triad.

That's one was of see it. We all must honour the use of all three centre's.
 
Last edited:

Ron

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...We all must honour the use of all three centre's.
must? ! no.
anyway i don't see a reason to call the head types the "fear types" because of the 3 centers-see above.
 

puiut4

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I think fear is just a result of a mind fixation. If your mind works all day and questions everything it probably leads to fear more likely than other fixations. For example the fear types (5,6,7) identify themselves with their mind and thoughts. 2,3,4 identify themselves with their emotions that leads to hysteria. 8,9,1 identify themselves with their body/ physical presence and that leads to anger.
 

Ron

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I think fear is just a result of a mind fixation. If your mind works all day and questions everything it probably leads to fear more likely than other fixations. For example the fear types (5,6,7) identify themselves with their mind and thoughts. 2,3,4 identify themselves with their emotions that leads to hysteria. 8,9,1 identify themselves with their body/ physical presence and that leads to anger.
inaccurate clichés in my eyes, to put it mildly.
 

KitchenFly

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must? ! no.
anyway i don't see a reason to call the head types the "fear types" because of the 3 centers-see above.

Do you mean experience .. These three part are within your experience.
 

Evo

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I thought every type experienced shame, anger, and fear. However there are patterns in the degree to which they experience them, how they respond to them, and how they cope with them. It's the very thing from which the type acts on.

Also I was under the impression that when one's overly in the head, the most prominent emotion they feel is mostly fear. ie overthinking

Ime most fear does not pervade every thought and action of the gut and heart types.
 

KitchenFly

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must? ! no.
anyway i don't see a reason to call the head types the "fear types" because of the 3 centers-see above.

Well yes because you can not function with out all three centre's.

You don't have anything you don't have to call the three types that form a dynamic anything.

You have to call the three part mechanism's 8-7 3 or 8-7 2 or 8-7 4 anything but by giving it all and all three accurate labels is helpful and if have three active function modalities of operational activity, negative positive and neutral then that is helpful nine is more helpful than three and very much more helpful that one.

The hardest type to be as a stubborn person is INTP So/Sx 549
 
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Head types are just more anxious because THINKING first before FEELING or ACTING (unconscious program).

I'm a 7 and I never seem anxious (unless you really have the opportunity to know me).

I must say I feel more preoccupied with what many people usually don't care about because ...they don't feel concerned about some questions.



And yet... Enneagram Centres
 
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