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[Traditional Enneagram] Enneagram Type 8

Jaguar

Active member
Joined
May 5, 2007
Messages
20,647
Lol, indeed I did as if that actually changes that I am self-aware now as opposed to what I were. As with most people it's a gradual process and there's no sin in mistyping.

When I claim that people have a fucked up idea about 8 on the Internet though, I mean just that. You trying to discredit me by digging up stuff from the past isn't doing anything more than being a character slander but doesn't actually at all address the claim that is being made. You aren't defending or providing evidence why the claim is wrong and incorrect and most importantly, I don't think you can. You can try though, except I got the sources and experiential understanding on my side, which is the problem with how people discuss the type on the Internet. It tends to fall back on reproducing the popular narrative but nothing else is being presented. The popular narrative is not the type but merely a surface level of it at best.

What you see as an attempt to discredit a person is in reality someone who is merely impatient with inconsistency of thought. Period. So, whine if you must that someone is trying to "discredit" you, and maybe next you'll claim the Illuminati is after you. Or a demonic cult. Nothing would surprise me at this point. Next month perhaps you'll claim to be a different enneagram type; no doubt claiming to be an "expert" of sorts to back up that new type you'll be wearing on your t-shirt. Learning along the way is great, but blaming people for your own shitty research isn't, as in:

Entropic said:
I'm an 8 and it took a lot of time until I could settle on the type and a major reason why I didn't is because people often have a fucked up idea of what an 8 is on the internet.

If you came to a piss-poor conclusion, blame yourself. Not what people say on the internet.
 

Entropic

New member
Joined
Aug 20, 2012
Messages
1,200
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
8w9
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
What you see as an attempt to discredit a person is in reality someone who is merely impatient with inconsistency of thought. Period. So, whine if you must that someone is trying to "discredit" you, and maybe next you'll claim the Illuminati is after you. Or a demonic cult. Nothing would surprise me at this point. Next month perhaps you'll claim to be a different enneagram type; no doubt claiming to be an "expert" of sorts to back up that new type you'll be wearing on your t-shirt. Learning along the way is great, but blaming people for your own shitty research isn't, as in:



If you came to a piss-poor conclusion, blame yourself. Not what people say on the internet.

Actually, no. If you actually had bothered to check the time stamps, you'd see that my supposed lack of consistency is in fact very consistent. I changed pretty rapidly from INTP to INFP and then to INTJ. I haven't changed type since then in over one and a half year. Similarly with the enneagram, I've only typed as one other type and that's 5 and I've typed as an 8 for over a year.

again, you are attacking my character and it's a blatant ad hominem. You can try to paint me however you want, but appeal to pathos isn't logical rhetoric based on facts. I wrote several things here making claims about what I know about the type but as is expected you rather continue trying to move the argument to undermining my character and my supposed credibility because I have actually been open with that I've mistyped in the past. It should be a much greater problem would i change type every month or not at all as either attitude shows inability of growth and awareness, representing behavior on two extremes on the spectrum.

And lol, I do think there is plenty to blame on the Internet because there is a limit of information that is passed by and people mistype because they don't think they fit the common narrative which creates a need for people to speak up against it in order to paint a much more colored picture instead of being monochrome. It's something an INTJ 2w1 friend I have agrees with, because he too mistyped for over a year because he didn't relate to the stereotype even though he, just like I did at some point, inintuitively knew what we were but we rationalized it away as being incorrect.

Speaking up and providing information is a good thing, because it actually prevents mistyping which you seem so adamant against.
 

Jaguar

Active member
Joined
May 5, 2007
Messages
20,647
I changed pretty rapidly from INTP to INFP and then to INTJ. <snipped rant>

INFP - there's an idea.

Btw, reading some decent enneagram books would get rid of the internet gossip problem in your head. "Betty hit her boyfriend, ergo, Betty is an 8" = internet gossip.
 

Entropic

New member
Joined
Aug 20, 2012
Messages
1,200
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
8w9
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
INFP - there's an idea.

Yeah go on lol. Come with some actual meat next time, instead of falling back on character slander. It doesn't really speak for your theoretical understanding, to say the least, which of course also questions how you can know whether I'm mistyped or not if you don't even grasp the theory to that degree.
 

Starry

Active member
Joined
May 22, 2010
Messages
6,103
great thread. lots and lots of honorable 8 behavior. here's an idea....let's keep all the "defending" in the realm of what actually happened in reality. I can't think of anything more dishonorable than accusing people of shit you pulled out of the land of make believe (read: your ass)...and once corrected...unable to be a "man" and apologize for it.

I'm so sorry [MENTION=22014]violett[/MENTION] that your thread, started in earnest, went in this direction.
 

Jaguar

Active member
Joined
May 5, 2007
Messages
20,647
Yeah go on lol. Come with some actual meat next time, instead of falling back on character slander. It doesn't really speak for your theoretical understanding, to say the least, which of course also questions how you can know whether I'm mistyped or not if you don't even grasp the theory to that degree.


You and Mole would get along well. ;)
 

Entropic

New member
Joined
Aug 20, 2012
Messages
1,200
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
8w9
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
You and Mole would get along well. ;)

No idea who Mole is, but they sound like an awfully boring person. Call me biased, but moles don't seem to be very interesting creatures. Also, a word of advice: next time don't bite more than what you can chew and don't go spouting nonsense and make claims you can't back up. Ultimately, the only one you are undermining here is yourself. I know my type journey very well but I also know the theory so if you are going to contest my type, you will have to it over theory and you are going to lose and I know this because you didn't even try and that says more than anything else you could tell me. So again, don't bite off more than you can chew.
 

great_bay

New member
Joined
Jan 29, 2015
Messages
987
MBTI Type
intp
Enneagram
541
When I turn into type 8, I see faults on people and act on them usually with somebody else's arguments. Most NT's are Type eight one way or another. Both ENTP and ENTJ share the same ennegram for type 8 and the growth for five is to turn into eight.
 

Starry

Active member
Joined
May 22, 2010
Messages
6,103
^Sorry you got compared to Mole.
[MENTION=16405]Entropic[/MENTION]

That must have cut deeply.
 

Entropic

New member
Joined
Aug 20, 2012
Messages
1,200
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
8w9
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
When I turn into type 8, I see faults on people and act on them usually with somebody else's arguments. Most NT's are Type eight one way or another. Both ENTP and ENTJ share the same ennegram for type 8 and the growth for five is to turn into eight.

What? People turn into 8? Actually, ENTJ and 8 isn't, based on my own data, nearly as common as people think it is, though ENTP is fairly common but I am not sure how solid this data is either.

Yes, 5s grow into 8, but that's very different from being one, though.

^Sorry you got compared to Mole.
[MENTION=16405]Entropic[/MENTION]

That must have cut deeply.

It would cut more deeply if I knew Mole.
 

great_bay

New member
Joined
Jan 29, 2015
Messages
987
MBTI Type
intp
Enneagram
541
What? People turn into 8? Actually, ENTJ and 8 isn't, based on my own data, nearly as common as people think it is, though ENTP is fairly common but I am not sure how solid this data is either.

Yes, 5s grow into 8, but that's very different from being one, though.



It would cut more deeply if I knew Mole.

ENTP's can be 7w8.
 

violett

New member
Joined
Jun 17, 2014
Messages
397
great thread. lots and lots of honorable 8 behavior. here's an idea....let's keep all the "defending" in the realm of what actually happened in reality. I can't think of anything more dishonorable than accusing people of shit you pulled out of the land of make believe (read: your ass)...and once corrected...unable to be a "man" and apologize for it.

I'm so sorry [MENTION=22014]violett[/MENTION] that your thread, started in earnest, went in this direction.

Oh, you don't have to apologize for the direction this thread headed. It has no bearing on my father's type, or the kind of relationship I have had with him throughout my life. What I see is an egotistical individual who is full of himself because he thinks he has "discovered" his type. Which motivates him to jump on threads discrediting anyone else's thoughts or life experience because his so-called superior knowlege of theory in addition to his vast experiential knowledge trumps what anyone else may have to share.

Also, when I read things like "My 2w1 - Intj freind". It puts things into even better perspective.
 

Starry

Active member
Joined
May 22, 2010
Messages
6,103
Oh, you don't have to apologize for the direction this thread headed. It has no bearing on my father's type, or the kind of relationship I have had with him throughout my life. What I see is an egotistical individual who is full of himself because he thinks he has "discovered" his type. Which motivates him to jump on threads discrediting anyone else's thoughts or life experience because his so-called superior knowlege of theory in addition to his vast experiential knowledge trumps what anyone else may have to share.

Also, when I read things like "My 2w1 - Intj freind". It puts things into even better perspective.


Well, your father sounds like an amazing human being. When you spoke of him in the OP...I was instantly reminded of an ESTP 7w8 member that has been busy and a bit absent from TypoC recently but what you wrote... that is how I would describe this individual precisely and I hope you get to meet him here soon.

Still, it will be nice to learn more about your father as well. Possibly somewhere else. :wink: Thanks for opening up this discussion as I feel human experiences to be...well, everything really.
 

kyuuei

Emperor/Dictator
Joined
Aug 28, 2008
Messages
13,964
MBTI Type
enfp
Enneagram
8
No, I know it was not, but I'm an 8 and it took a lot of time until I could settle on the type and a major reason why I didn't is because people often have a fucked up idea of what an 8 is on the internet. Had been reading your post a little more than a year ago, I may still have hesitated to type as one since I couldn't relate to the information you felt were 8-ish about your dad.

Well I'm a type 8 and I related a lot to what she said (though I look at myself in an entirely different light in it vs what someone else would see.. but I've had people tell me things similar to the context she wrote) soo.. how's about we shake 'em and tuck 'em.

The instant I read a very basic type 8 description it resonated with me intensely. I've read several others floating around the internet, while some are more garbage than others, all of them resonate with the consistent similar themes and attitudes about the core of the type 8. Every description was like "Uh.. no.." until I got to type 8 (I was ready to think the system was totally useless by type 7.) Unlike types 2 and 3, which can mask easily into different types and have a bit of confusion in them, there really is little mistaking the type 8 description.. They're pretty blatant and jarring, imo one of the more black-and-white concepts of the whole system.
 

kyuuei

Emperor/Dictator
Joined
Aug 28, 2008
Messages
13,964
MBTI Type
enfp
Enneagram
8
Still, it will be nice to learn more about your father as well. Possibly somewhere else. :wink: Thanks for opening up this discussion as I feel human experiences to be...well, everything really.

I definitely agree. Seeing things from the other side of the coin, I was like "Ohh man I've definitely heard things like this before from others..." it reminded me of the thread I got a little frustrated with once long ago where people were making type 8s out to be superheroes.. and I was disagreeing SO MUCH because I'm in the shoes, and I don't feel that way at all.. but when I look back now (ahh what a difference a year or two makes in one's perspective) I was completely invalidating their experience interacting with type 8s by assuming they were just idolizing them. I felt bad about it for a while.
 

Entropic

New member
Joined
Aug 20, 2012
Messages
1,200
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
8w9
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
Well I'm a type 8 and I related a lot to what she said (though I look at myself in an entirely different light in it vs what someone else would see.. but I've had people tell me things similar to the context she wrote) soo.. how's about we shake 'em and tuck 'em.

The instant I read a very basic type 8 description it resonated with me intensely. I've read several others floating around the internet, while some are more garbage than others, all of them resonate with the consistent similar themes and attitudes about the core of the type 8. Every description was like "Uh.. no.." until I got to type 8 (I was ready to think the system was totally useless by type 7.) Unlike types 2 and 3, which can mask easily into different types and have a bit of confusion in them, there really is little mistaking the type 8 description.. They're pretty blatant and jarring, imo one of the more black-and-white concepts of the whole system.

There is one description I resonate with in the sense that I feel that YES, that totally describes me, and that's Maitri's description of type 8. That one really literally fucking hurt. I feel the other descriptions end up harping too much on behavior instead of an internal disposition and many such as Palmer's, are just outright atrocious imo, or Naranjo's too, in how they feed into this narrative people have of the type. Like, I can go back now and read say, R&H's description in Discovering Your Personality and see how everything they write is actually true and applicable to me because a lot of the negative qualities of the type are things I have had an intimate comment on as negative quality traits I possess. As such I was made readily aware of them so I now know I possess them, but without an outside commenting, I would probably not have be able to make that connection.

Some people identify their types reading the descriptions right away, some people don't. For me it took longer where I had to a) read a source whose material was presented in a way I found favorable (aka Maitri's) and b) arrive at the sufficient awareness where I could identify the structure in myself as such. I typed as a 5 mostly because I thought Naranjo's description felt ok (though tbh, prior to reading Maitri's, I felt no description really hit home so it was a matter of trying to evaluate on a more objective basis of what seemed like me though it should have been a dead giveaway clue when I realized I don't relate to other 5s in the 5 subforum on PerC) and I justified that I was integrating for probably a year until I realized this isn't working and something is very off.

This is why I don't feel behavioral descriptions are very meaningful in the first place because there are so many things that can play a role in how a person behaves, but the underlying motivation may not always be readily apparent or be in line with the behavior that underlies it.

Oh, you don't have to apologize for the direction this thread headed. It has no bearing on my father's type, or the kind of relationship I have had with him throughout my life. What I see is an egotistical individual who is full of himself because he thinks he has "discovered" his type. Which motivates him to jump on threads discrediting anyone else's thoughts or life experience because his so-called superior knowlege of theory in addition to his vast experiential knowledge trumps what anyone else may have to share.

Also, when I read things like "My 2w1 - Intj freind". It puts things into even better perspective.

lol, passive-aggressive, aren't you? If you got an issue with how I approach the subject, take it with me directly instead of a) throwing a hissy fit in public where you make a lot of character accusations and I decided to let it slip even though I definitely found it extremely rude and b) now making indirect remarks about my behavior and presence in this thread where I can publicly read it but you do not dare to address me in person. I was trying to be curt and not be offensive, but you take it personally anyway. I wanted to discuss the type and I felt some of the stuff you wrote was off, factually speaking, which is no way meant to discredit your experiences of your father. The purpose was, however, to provide some other information that would be contrary to what you offered not because I inherently disagreed with everything you wrote (I actually commented on things I both agreed and disagreed with), but because I wanted to offer another perspective. Apparently I need to walk on eggshells because any sense of disagreement is apparently bad and wrong to you, and I should just gobble up which is what I see others doing here. Well, I have little interest in the kind of rapport Fe types establish among themselves.

Also do note, I rarely made instances to myself. I made generic comments about the type as a whole and some of them apply to me, and some of them don't. Factual information. I mind about trying to create a more grounded and factual understanding of the type (type 8 is also not the only type I care about, either; another pet peeve I have is how type 6 is described in online typology circles) so I simply chose to comment on that some of the stuff you wrote may not be explicit or unique or common for type 8. I don't expect you to like me, but I do expect you to showcase a little basic respect where you a) do not write posts of such passive-aggressive nature that you did here, and b) take any issue you have with me as a person in person. I am sorry if you felt I attacked you in some way but I did not and it was not my intention to make it seem or come across as such; now I also expect you to behave like a mature individual and apologize for acting so rudely towards me. I have not made a single instance attacking you or your character, but you seem to think it's fit for you to do that in public. If you do not want to discuss the type with me I will step out of this thread but I do expect you to behave appropriately towards me in the future.
 

violett

New member
Joined
Jun 17, 2014
Messages
397
Well, your father sounds like an amazing human being. When you spoke of him in the OP...I was instantly reminded of an ESTP 7w8 member that has been busy and a bit absent from TypoC recently but what you wrote... that is how I would describe this individual precisely and I hope you get to meet him here soon.

Still, it will be nice to learn more about your father as well. Possibly somewhere else. :wink: Thanks for opening up this discussion as I feel human experiences to be...well, everything really.

Thank you, his freind's think so too. Also, people who participate on a facebook group dedicated to the moto-cross club, of which, he was VP, during the late 70's early 80's, where I spent most of my childhood with him. They reminesce and share memories of the crazy, balls to the wall, full throttle, kamikazi racing style he taught them. I would enjoy meeting the Estp 7w8 member you have mentioned who has been absent from the board lately.

Thank you for replying and appreciating human experience :)

I miss him and need to make a point to give him a call soon, since he has been on my mind.
 
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