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  1. #71


    Quote Originally Posted by Luke O View Post
    The fuck
    What's your problem ,, please do tell?

  2. #72

  3. #73


    Merging is about making something happen like a bond of synergy, and at a deeper level it's about connecting to authentically connect at a synergetic merged level were the self and other are authentically receptive unto each other's Presence, state of being, authentic self within the moment.

    The goal of Merging for me is to go receptive with another, that's a Social Values Level:3 agenda and mind set orientated goal.

    Not to many people are keen to play that game, most people's minds are set within a bracket of interpersonal control with the goal or gaining the certainty of achieving that what has been achieved before by others or by self.

    The terrain of merging is a little different because it is likely to involve emotions that stem from property's of I states like these below, the standard four and the synergetic balances of the others stemming from the Standard Four.

    - sensing
    - feeling
    - thinking
    - intuition

    - sense-intuit
    - intuit-think
    - sense-feel
    - feel-think
    - think-sense
    - feel-intuit

    When the dose merge and activate with or without another there is a base stillness, a dual ambidextrous base functioning, ambidextrous S&N and ambidextrous F&T.

    The roots of this function for the type:9 states with both parts active from the two sub energies (9w8 & 9w1) Ni and Fi these two couple with another set of merged implicate energies from Point:1 and from Point:8, Te and Se. The coupling of all four forces is an ignition for the dual ambidextrous action. This form of Presence is within all and it found in the first steps of engagement for all types because all processes begin at zero at Point:9 with Presence and end at nine at Point:9 when it comes to the making of Receptive-Presence.

    If you add ambidextrous S&N and ambidextrous F&T there becomes 12.

    - ambidextrous S&N
    - ambidextrous F&T.

    - sensing
    - feeling
    - thinking
    - intuition

    - sense-intuit
    - intuit-think
    - sense-feel
    - feel-think
    - think-sense
    - feel-intuit

    Some may have seen my diagram that has a number value of 12 at each of the nine Points of the Enneagram.

    .................... 12
    ........12 .................... 12

    12 ................................... 12

    .....12 .......................... 12

    ..............12 .........12

  4. #74

    Default KitchenFly's laboratory for the exploration of number patterns

    The number value 12 and of having twelve qualities or perspective views to aid in the synergy of the overall inner enneagram is interesting.

    Ten plus two is one way I sense this dynamic and all so as a form of a multiplicity a form of a triangle at each Point of the enneagram.

    12 can be viewed intuitively as a number symbol of the three triangles (-1-7-4-) & (-2-8-5-) & (-3-6-9-) were in the ten's units could be viewed as linked to the (-3-6-9-) and the two units in the number value 12 could be viewed as linked to the (-1-7-4-) & (-2-8-5-).

    The ten's units could be viewed as linked to the dynamic of the ten components below listed.

    - sensing
    - feeling
    - thinking
    - intuition

    - sense-intuit
    - intuit-think
    - sense-feel
    - feel-think
    - think-sense
    - feel-intuit

    And the two units could be viewed as being linked to the dual-dual dynamic of - ambidextrous S&N - ambidextrous F&T.

    Within the general of or inner personality we have the inner observer and I think the lens of the inner observer has the properties of with triangle.

    The Primary points three, six, nine make the inner triangle of the living enneagram of personality and I am inclined to separate the list of twelve in to three groupings in two primary ways as a starting point to explore further this basic pattern.


    Associated with the feeling triad and the Primary Point:3

    - ambidextrous S&N
    - ambidextrous F&T

    Associated with the thinking triad and the Primary Point:6

    - sensing
    - feeling
    - thinking
    - intuition

    Associated with the relating triad and the Primary Point:9

    - sense-intuit
    - intuit-think
    - sense-feel
    - feel-think
    - think-sense
    - feel-intuit


    Associated with the Feminine Principle.

    - ambidextrous S&N

    Associated with the Masculine Principle.

    - ambidextrous F&T

    Associated with the perceptive actions of the Primary Triangle.
    - sensing
    - feeling
    - thinking
    - intuition

    Associated with the actions of the Six Pointed Fig.
    - sense-intuit
    - intuit-think
    - sense-feel
    - feel-think
    - think-sense
    - feel-intuit

    I have the Sx and the 9 as my dominate dual functions and from my merging and ambivalence between my mirrors (others and other aspects of self) this is the inner pattern I detect. With out it we all would not be able to partly or completely merge with another momentarily or with a consistent fluidity with or transactions with others.

    Merging and identifying with is a natural every day thing we must do, we can have a negative or positive or neutral attitude or shifting attitude with our functions of identifications and phycological merging.

    Perhaps this is why we can find a consistent fractal like pattern at the 18 Subtype level of the operations of the enneagram on the Agenda side of the coin but not on the Mood side of the coin.

    I find this a curiosity that is yet to be understood, at lest by myself within my own understanding.
    Last edited by KitchenFly; 03-10-2016 at 06:53 PM.

  5. #75

    Default KitchenFly's laboratory for the exploration of number patterns

    When merging as an agenda wasn't working for me as a 9 , 9w1 in the formative years of 2 years to 5 years of age I recall gravitating to Point:6 , 6w5 and moving from Sx/sp to and getting stuck at So/sx. It was a very emotional experience. "Why!" was a big question (6) and placating was a strong energy So/sx.

    Between the age of 5 years old and 13 years old the flux of personality became drawer.

    My w1 linked with Sx/so
    My w8 linked with So/sp
    My subsidiary wing 2w3 linked with Sp/so
    My subsidiary wing 7w6 linked with Sp/sx

    And my integration Point:3 connected with Point:6 via 9w8 Sp/so while the 9 energy connected the 6w5 So/sx energy with my 9w1 Sx/sp energy. This mind set generated for me a receptivity that was a form of merging that was a private victory. I had merged with myself (-head-hart-gut-) and learnt to generate a form of receptivity that enabled me to be self reliant with out the need to over compensate in seeking union with others. It placed in touch with a working experience of exercising the team work triangle.

    This was my self determination energy. Naturally I did not always exercise this primary focus but it was a proactive form of utilising the merging energy that stems from the triplet of (seeking Union , fear of Annihilation , and desiring to Merge).

    It get me thinking if it is posable that seeking union is a gut function linked to Id? Seeking to merge is a head function linked to supper ego? And the fear of Annihilation is a hart function linked to ego? For type 9.

    Sense-Feel seems to be my preferred sub conches emotional orientation to view the world though the type nine lens of awareness. My earliest recollection of my 9 Sx/sp emery was at the age of 13 mouths when my mother came home from giving berth to my sister with out bring her home, she was left at the hospital for adoption.

    I can recall the excitement of waiting for my mum to return with my sister, but she retuned with out my sister, I was so offended when I read her being that she tried to reason with me and when I rejected her mentally she ran out the door in shock and returned to the hospital and tried to get her daughter back but was talked out of it buy the hospital staff.

    I spoke to my sister for the first time five mouths ago. And recalled that memory of that day only three or four mouths ago. I believe I can recall having a strong connection with my sister when she was in my mothers whom as if or harts and minds were connected though a gut a weakness of each other's presence.

    Or merged awareness of each other was separated buy my mother not bring her home from the hospital. This incident had a spring impact on my emotional body and something changed that day I lost a degree of interest in intimacy with other persons a numb space closed of space replaced the open space receptive space.

    From that point onwards I looked at the world with a mental only out look, I guess I closed the flow between the three centre's and in doing so lost the brilliance that "Is" when the three centre's are as one, a hole complete centre of Being.
    Last edited by KitchenFly; 03-13-2016 at 10:35 AM.

  6. #76
    Join Date
    May 2015
    3w4 sx/sp


    Quote Originally Posted by KitchenFly View Post
    Maybe I like thinking aloud. And shearing my thoughts.

    Can you make that ok?

    I can make the things I don't particularly like ok and move on. How about you? @Zay
    No, I can not make it ok and I can not move on. Stop shearing your thoughts and stop thinking aloud.
    Tritype: 358 (3w4, 5w6, 8w7)

  7. #77

    Default KitchenFly's laboratory for the exploration of number patterns

    Quote Originally Posted by Zay View Post
    No, I can not make it ok and I can not move on. Stop shearing your thoughts and stop thinking aloud.
    Sounds like the neurotic part of your inner So/sp is at work-Zay.

    Do have much on going troubles with this over compensating part of your being?

    2's 5's and eights can have This sheared inner difficulty "team is impotent" we kinda have to survive together would be a topical articulation a simpatico inspired hop to connect believe that self and other are on the same page connected as one on the same Planet.

    Are you by chance a So:2 ? @Zay

    It's interesting how the two So functions work within the overcompensation of the type via the sub conches needs to feel centred and free within the psychodrama of selfs need to de expressively free willed.

    You seek to limit free will and choice with an other rather than accept diversity within the multiplicity and move on enjoying the aspects of being that generate aliveness within self.

    So/sp instinct has its complicated stress stress structure, I know I am human to. Perhaps you would like to shear you hart felt experience as to the type you see your self as being and I could illuminate for you the structure and mechanics that are moving you while your self is focused upon holding balance rather than embracing the a texture of the posture of this inmate controlling component of Being.

    Please do tell your story @Zay

  8. #78

    Default KitchenFly's laboratory for the exploration of number patterns

    @Zay for your edification,..don't you cut and! Stay in the process. You are a sacrificial spark of divine light, let me see you glow now Zay.

    Quote Originally Posted by great_bay View Post
    Has anybody known ENTJ as the 4-5-1 tri-type? The researcher tri-type is known as withdrawn and investigative. I have never seen an ENTJ with this type combo or any fictional characters for that matter.
    Well your in luck, I am doing training for selection, for a new job I am applying for.

    Today's trainer was a 4w5 Sp that's close to the energy of 4-5-1, to be more precise 4w5 7w8 1w2 Sp/Sx/So , - 4w5 - SP. the person had a very witty dry sense of humour as if the individual was testing who was really listening and paying attention, also as if to identify who understood and clearly identified with me "4-5-1. I found myself laughing three times though out the day, and now after thinking about the tri-energy and this interaction dynamic test I'm thinking each aspect of humour may have come from each one of the three energies 4-5-1 as if to solicit who hear gets me? Who can I trust under stress to work under my direction because if a member of my team stuffs up the buck stops with me bottom line and I need to know who is switched on and working with me not competing against me.

    So I thought this person was a smart person with a complex intelligence that sees the would in a mater of fact way in a technical structural manner. A conscience work house who is not scared of the detail and honing respond ability was my immediate impression of this person.

    I would like to work with him, so I am happy that I responded spontaneously to his humour and knotted the context of the content of his humour. I maybe lucky and be chosen by him to work on his team.

    It pays to pay attention to the personal of the person Te's like to know that as they extend them selves In service for the team as they fatigue a balance is there to support them at the personal level, needed. They are self dependant persons that are wiling to give large of them selves for unity, Good Fi - Si support is partially important to them it they are striving in striving mode.

    Basics requested of other:

    -Si ,pay attention within communication.
    -Fi ,understand the value of that communicated.

    To be understood (Ni) from the mind set of the ENTJ functionality of the 4w5 SP 4-5-1 at point's 7-8 within possesses being actively-actualised, (Te) the dive of the individual.

    Yes that's correct j is the secondary P is the actual self for the 4w5 at the subsidiary level. J is the mood successfully integrated with the agenda within the individuals successful self actualisation. This enables free flow like SP continuity between Sp/Sx and Sp/So with the order lead from the successful inner balance of the inner SP energy.

    Three parts! Three parts! Agenda - Conches - Mood , sp/sx - SP - sp/so . The counter balance (three into three) the six pointed Fig.

    For this individual: Conches-mood-agenda , operating at level 3-4-5 of the level's of development as a 4w5 SP.

    Right hand turning universe (Galaxy):

    SP Primary Point:9 Second Point:3 Third Point:6
    SX Primary Point:3 Second Point:6 Third Point:9
    SO Primary. Point:6 Second Point:9 Third Point:3

    Three into three.

    Galaxy moves to the right, solar system moves to the left at a right angle to the Galaxy, Pluto and Pluto's five moons rotate towards the left as a collective of Six objects and face at a right angle to wards the movements of the eight planets rotating towards a left handed direction around the Sun. Five of the six objects spin in a left handed direction and one moon spins to the right. Four out of five five out of six and the centre object spins to the left with its edge touching the over all axis for the six objects. One to the right? One upon its boundary upon the over all axis? And one to the right? (Interesting-Pattern)

    The fourth quarter is the human drain via evolution is evolving a right angled twist within the scull.

    4/4 = one hole unit. Plus, Two components an axises, a multiplicity? Pluto

  9. #79

    Default KitchenFly's laboratory for the exploration of number patterns

    I like your work.

    The interesting thing for me as an INFP was noting via my visceral dominant perception that the phycology of both mind sets (NTJ vs NTP) seem to both be driven by an aggressive instinctual drive that ignores a hole inclusive instinctual awareness view point and in doing so, neglects the long term phycological basic ramifications of the dual mind sets that seem to be impersonal competitive personal aspiration lead driven agendas.

    The personal,. (Gut-Hart) &,. (Gut-Head) seem to be for the Keynes(NTJ) and Hayek(NTP) the shadow actions that fog the futility of the combined argument as being weath while as solution and correct economical market Prime Models.

    If I was to work with what is present on this topic page to find the solution I would tend to think that the uncommon common sense would be not 100% one or the other but for each view point to take its correct promotional portion within the solution.

    Perhaps what is needed as a start from each of the two schools of thought would be an aspiration to only be 5% each as a group contributions like shear towards the being Key motors within the market model and to allow the other 95% to integrate into the sound of the over all tone of the market model utilised by all for all as a synergetic instrument for collective prosperity and personal security and and sheared wealth.

    I think to my self what contribution would the other three letter driving forces contribute to the over all model or potential model?

    Quote Originally Posted by ZombieNinjaPirate View Post
    Just of the top of my head,

    STP : Like the NTP is going to want to understand through observation and draw logical inferences but instead of abstracting an observation into potentialities they are going to want to directly observe practical effects in real time. The NTJ has this direct observation as well but they'd rather be associative from that particular analysis rather than focus wholly on the matter at hand.

    NFP: Like the NTP they will have a more multifaceted view and consider all potentialities of a given observation. But they are more similar to the NTJs when it comes to evaluating that information with a preference at looking at how any system effects individuals personally (including themselves) rather than what objective variables can be altered such as price controls or more liberalization of the price mechanism to test a hypothesis. NFPs would probably be concerned with the intangible human psychological factor I think.

    STJ : Can posess an interest in building a sustainable framework for sustainability for a proactive creation of wealth, for the personal needs of self and or for the building of wealth and capital growth to service all practical needs in a sustainable manner to meet the practical and symbiotic needs of the common unity or selfs aspirations. The SFP has the individual or other(s) in forefront of mind an image of selfs ability(s) proficiency agility to achieve for self, organisation, or team can lead the proactivity of the individual to seek to work build and achieve. Individualism Team and Tribe influence the aspirations of the individual primary motive focusing I&E as if valuing the sensed and or sensing values, is a (goal) preoccupation, of the SFP.

    STP : May have an objective goal to exploit the potential earning of, or a similar like work agenda, for the maximum potential in the service of an organisations aspirational goals or for the selfs own entrepreneurial spirit and personal goals or idealised out comes desired to meet an inner need of achievement gained, satisfied. The SFJ has an orientation toward self-being a powerful agent with the know how to do to influence and direct for the good of the individual the collective the organisation. Beginning and completing (activity) starting and finishing (sequencing), can be a fixation of attention within the focused orientation of the I&E as if sensing values needed and valuing the sensed perceived (for the right action), is a preoccupation of the SFJ.
    Likes ZNP-TBA, Punderstorm liked this post

  10. #80


    Quote Originally Posted by D'Ascoyne View Post
    I understand how tritypes work, but I came across tritype descriptions on a different typology site and came across these:

    "five with a nine fix" [with a description]

    "eight with a three fix" [with a description]

    I'm confused. Does "___ with a ___ fix" mean the description pertains only to those two particular enneagrams?

    If anyone could chime in with an explanation, I'd be most happy to take you up with me on a hot air balloon ride. I bake some lovely scones, you know.
    It's an interesting subject, let's take your 8 with a three fix within and out side of the tri type model.

    Let's see who is some one who we can all think about????

    Ah yes Donald Trump "(Mr evil)"

    We look at Donald Trump with both examples because he is a type eight and type eight under stress takes on the traits of the type five or goes to Point:5 with self expression.

    The Donald is a 8w9 and expresses in my view a 9 Fix when at the lower levels of health via his point of disintegration/stress Point:5.

    But the Tritype of Mr Trump in y mind is 8w9 6w7 3w4.

    Donald trump could and can be seen as a 8w9 with a 6 fix and as a 8w9 with a 3 fix, such is the nature of psyche with its flux, the shifts and energy followers or energy follows thought.

    Due to this factor the levels of health play a part as do factors of nurture or lack of self nurturing attitudes that have a catalyst like cause and affect upon the nature component of the sheared fixed design we all shear.

    Donald Trump like all types has complexities that are hard to understand. All Points work within the mind of the individual in many ways at many levels of the selfs operating/ Being. And energies over lap and can and do work together as they can work in contrast as if against leaving individuals with an ability to be full of contradictions if pushed to explain the biases and suck like things within.

    So that ass hole Donald Trump,.. Are yes he can operate in three ways, plus one more, but I have never viewed the level:3 of the levels of development side of the Donald Trump so I will not speculate as to the structural form able to operate with the mind of that Individual.

    So follow along and be open to splitting your attention no just once but twice as you empathic ly impression, the energy flux of Donald Trumps personality flux.

    8-6-4 and 8-3-6 , impression all six components as if see him in mind actualising the energies. Utilise memory of such fixes of personality energy fluxes that he has displayed in the public eye.

    8w9 3w4 6w7 and then 8w9 6w7 3w4

    8 moving to Point:5 under stress and see if you can sense the Fi express via the Fe out wards it is masked under the Ti out ward expression as hidden complaints unable to be seeming , held back and freely omitted as an expression of power, Donald sudo lust/loost expressed as his primary energy.

    8w9w7 and then, mood 7w8, agenda 9w8 and all of a sudden the understanding of lust as a passion for the 8w9w7 becomes clear within understanding. The conches seeks contact with? The Eight energy of power, loost/a lust for experiencing Power the over all Hu of being alive in contact with the inner life force. This would be defined as conches, the (8) with in the 8w9w7 ,conches with agenda with mood, 8w9w7.

    Any way if you think in triangles over leaping takes place 3w4 connects with 6w7 as 6w7 connects with 3w4. Having a connection with point:5 and its potential fix with point:9 helps create a loop because the wing for the 8w9 is 9w8 and the stress Point for the eight is Point:5 , 5w4 and the lest preferred (or) fourth function is Fe that can connect Bach to the Fe of both the Fe of the ESFJ 8w9 and the wing energy 9w8 INFJ (Fe). If it is an apathetic fix then Fe works with into Fi at Point:9 but within the 9w1 INFP (Fi). In this case a false sense of inner presence connected with the agenda of creating creating a new process. Or pushing though a demanded process desired, in this case by the"Don" -Donald Trump.

    So you now can see how both triangles at the subsidiary are co connecting at the level of the tritype structure within.

    Complex ha but understandable with a little receptivity and being prepared to split your attention and then split your attention as often as necessary in order to envision the understanding as a hole understood impression.

    The rest you can work out your self with some honest interest.

    The Mad World of Donald Trump (Full) | Documentary

    To make it easier.

    8 with a 3 fix , 3w4.
    8 with a 6 fix , 6w7.
    8 under stress goes to 5w4, 5w4w6, conches 5 (Fe or Ti of the INTP) - agenda 4 (Fe), mood 6 six with seven (Fi). (4w5-4w3-6w7)

    3w4 , 3w4w2, conches (Ti), agenda (Te), mood (Si). (3w4-4w5-2w3)

    6w7 , 6w7w5, conches (Fi), agenda (Te), mood (F&T). (6w7-7w8-5w6)

    That makes it easier to impression the workings of the two triangles, the team work triangle (-2-5-7-) and the personal triangle (-1-7-4-).

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