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Thread: 4w5 or 5w4?

  1. #1
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    Default 4w5 or 5w4?

    Hi,

    I've been through a major depressive episode and i seem be struggling through an identity crisis. Help needed. Im not too keen on exposing myself but its necessary in this case. Ive taken the enneagram test more that once, i usually end up with either a 4w5 or a 5w4. How do i know which is my core type? MBTI tests, apparently i tend to fall under intj or infj. Ive narrowed down my type to these two possible types.

    Due to my knowledge on the enneagram and Jungs tests, i highly doubt that taking another test will help. I feel as though i know too much.

    i have a lot of suppressed memories and according to my housemates, as a kid, i was quiet. withdrawn, imaginative. I would say i was more 4ish. I felt a lot, but never expressed it. It was constantly suppressed. As i grew into my teenage years i seemed very 5ish. I used my head a lot more, i gathered as much knowledge as i could about things i find to be beautiful. I was never an A student but i can be if i want to, there just isn't any beauty in studies. My teenage years was full of ups and downs, basically i seemed very sevenish except for the part on thinking ahead. I never liked thinking ahead. Then there were months of isolation. where i did literally nothing more than thinking. I would say I'm conceptual but i have a hard time dealing with emotions. I was a scartist as a kid. A mix breed. i loved science and art fascinated me. i do not know which came first though. My sense of self is really unstable. Im prone to depressive episodes. I seem to be disconnected and detached at times.

    Right now i feel like an artist without the ability to express myself. I am unable to express strong feelings. I use my head a lot. i fit into the type 4s except for the fact that I'm not so focused on success (not a 3 wing at all) and i don't really seem to hate myself. Ive questioned my existence, asking myself on how my existence mattered if i couldn't be seen for who i was. I often feel that people can't seem to understand me, they just don't.. i have inner worlds that i do not wish to speak of simply because its personal. I do long, yearn. not much for a rescurer bit for someone to see me for who i am and to be there with me. I tend to be on the lookout for someone that doesn't seem to exist. It is rather depressing. Im more of a loner, but i can be sociable. I just don't like to. So based on the above, could someone please explain my core type to me? I hope its clear enough.

  2. #2
    The Typing Tabby grey_beard's Avatar
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    I'm probably not enough of an expert to rely on : except that I *am* an INTJ.
    Sounds like you're a 4w5 or a 5w4. 5w4 would be a legitimate/common INTJ.
    How are you on Fe (external Feeling)? The INFJ has that instead of the Fi of the INTJ.

    Hang around here, there are lots of good people here, and we all like exploring type together.
    Welcome aboard from an an INTJ 5w4 armoured unit!
    "Love never needs time. But friendship always needs time. More and more and more time, up to long past midnight." -- The Crime of Captain Gahagan

    Please comment on my johari / nohari pages.

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    Thank you,

    I feel more 5ish than 4. My housemates have told me that when I'm under stress, i tend to behave 7 like. Way too eccentric. Its as though i want more, and then i suffer bouts of depression. Fortunately, I do not have bipolar disorder.

    On external feeling, honestly, i don't really get affected as much. i am unable to fully feel what the environment is making everyone else feel. In a way I'm detached form my environment. My feelings are mainly internal. They've always been internal. I tend to be alone with my feelings, i have never asked anyone for help based on my feelings. Id say i feel more Fi than Fe. If I'm a 5w4, I'm most likely at the unhealthy levels. I wouldn't count on 4w5 much though. I don't really express myself that much.

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    Based on your original post it sounds fairly 4, you may be bookish and intellectual but your OP focused a lot on aesthetics which for me was the tell-tale sign. I originally tested 5w4 and it seemed a good fit, but the more balance I get in my life the less austere and more aesthetically expressive I become. Having a style, whether that be in art, architecture, fashion or whatever is very important to me. Find the beauty in everything, is a fundamental preoccupation of mine.

    I don't hate myself, but I feel conflicted within most definately. Yet my inner conflicts usually are resolved when I find my individual style on the subject. I had a very turbulent time when I was allowing myself to be deeply influenced by others around me. There was an inner resentment brewing because deep down I knew their influence wasn't authentic to me. It took me a long time though to be able to pinpoint that as a fundamental problem. It also took me a long time to realise that appearing intellectual was also just an affectation of a certain period in my life. It's not truly who I am, I'm an appreciator of aesthetics more than I am a philosopher.

    The only thing I consistently and unambigously test as is INTJ. The 4 was always in my enneagram results but it was never in the top three (except as a wing). Yet the more I learned about other 4's and other 5's I realised I am more core 4.
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  5. #5
    Senior Member lulabelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlakeUndefined View Post
    Hi,

    I've been through a major depressive episode and i seem be struggling through an identity crisis. Help needed. Im not too keen on exposing myself but its necessary in this case. Ive taken the enneagram test more that once, i usually end up with either a 4w5 or a 5w4. How do i know which is my core type? MBTI tests, apparently i tend to fall under intj or infj. Ive narrowed down my type to these two possible types.

    Due to my knowledge on the enneagram and Jungs tests, i highly doubt that taking another test will help. I feel as though i know too much.

    i have a lot of suppressed memories and according to my housemates, as a kid, i was quiet. withdrawn, imaginative. I would say i was more 4ish. I felt a lot, but never expressed it. It was constantly suppressed. As i grew into my teenage years i seemed very 5ish. I used my head a lot more, i gathered as much knowledge as i could about things i find to be beautiful. I was never an A student but i can be if i want to, there just isn't any beauty in studies. My teenage years was full of ups and downs, basically i seemed very sevenish except for the part on thinking ahead. I never liked thinking ahead. Then there were months of isolation. where i did literally nothing more than thinking. I would say I'm conceptual but i have a hard time dealing with emotions. I was a scartist as a kid. A mix breed. i loved science and art fascinated me. i do not know which came first though. My sense of self is really unstable. Im prone to depressive episodes. I seem to be disconnected and detached at times.

    Right now i feel like an artist without the ability to express myself. I am unable to express strong feelings. I use my head a lot. i fit into the type 4s except for the fact that I'm not so focused on success (not a 3 wing at all) and i don't really seem to hate myself. Ive questioned my existence, asking myself on how my existence mattered if i couldn't be seen for who i was. I often feel that people can't seem to understand me, they just don't.. i have inner worlds that i do not wish to speak of simply because its personal. I do long, yearn. not much for a rescurer bit for someone to see me for who i am and to be there with me. I tend to be on the lookout for someone that doesn't seem to exist. It is rather depressing. Im more of a loner, but i can be sociable. I just don't like to. So based on the above, could someone please explain my core type to me? I hope its clear enough.
    You seem like an INFP 4w5. For sure. You're so focused on imagination, inner worlds, not feeling understood, feeling unstable, trying to see beauty everywhere, yearning etc etc. Classic INFP 4w5. 5w4s have a very specific style of writing and usually aren't as concerned with which you're concerned.
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  6. #6
    Member brainheart's Avatar
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    I'm a 4w5 with an extremely strong five wing so I relate much to what you say. I, like you, see a lot of the seven in me when disintegrated/unhealthy. I think it's actually more noticeable than the two. I also love both science and art. I also have a hard time externalizing emotion. Most people actually see me as being undramatic, while internally I am extremely dramatic. My fiction writing can seem more heady/detached/conceptual than I would like. My poetry is more emotionally honest, but still there is a level of detachment to it, like I'm soaking in my feeling but also observing it from a distance at the same time.

    What made me decide on 4 for myself over 5 was image vs head triad. With a four you will see more of an image awareness, and by this I mean- is what I put out there a true representation of myself? There is a lot of analysis in this regard- Is my art showing the real me? I know that for myself I don't want to put anything out there that isn't 100% honest to me. I want people to see me through my art and if I am failing in that regard it feels like a lie. So it can seem like I'm doing nothing to others because I won't share my work unless it lives up to my self perceptions of what is authentic. Of course the irony is that the more authentic thing would be for me to put out whatever comes naturally (and this is what happens when I'm healthier).

    With a head type leading this won't be the emphasis so much as the interest in mental exploration.
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  7. #7
    Suave y Fuerte BadOctopus's Avatar
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    I'm a 5w4 INTJ, and I can identify with a lot of your OP. I spend a lot of time in my head, imagining possibilities and even having conversations that never take place in the real world. And I have an appreciation for beauty, which seems at odd with my practical, logical nature.

    However, I don't see myself as an artist, frustrated or otherwise. I like to draw and write, but those things don't define me. And I don't think I've ever struggled with my sense of self. I've always been all too aware of what makes me me, and I've never doubted it or tried to fight it. I accept who I am — weird and flawed though I may be.

    From your own description, you sound more like a 4w5 than a 5w4. You seem to feel things deeply, but your feelings are very personal to you, and you aren't prepared to share them with just anybody. You desperately want to be understood and appreciated for who you are, but your sense of detachment makes that difficult, because sometimes you're not even sure who you are and what your place is in this world. You strive for meaning. That seems more like a Type 4 thing.

  8. #8
    Senior Member The Great One's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlakeUndefined View Post
    Hi,

    I've been through a major depressive episode and i seem be struggling through an identity crisis. Help needed. Im not too keen on exposing myself but its necessary in this case. Ive taken the enneagram test more that once, i usually end up with either a 4w5 or a 5w4. How do i know which is my core type? MBTI tests, apparently i tend to fall under intj or infj. Ive narrowed down my type to these two possible types.

    Due to my knowledge on the enneagram and Jungs tests, i highly doubt that taking another test will help. I feel as though i know too much.

    i have a lot of suppressed memories and according to my housemates, as a kid, i was quiet. withdrawn, imaginative. I would say i was more 4ish. I felt a lot, but never expressed it. It was constantly suppressed. As i grew into my teenage years i seemed very 5ish. I used my head a lot more, i gathered as much knowledge as i could about things i find to be beautiful. I was never an A student but i can be if i want to, there just isn't any beauty in studies. My teenage years was full of ups and downs, basically i seemed very sevenish except for the part on thinking ahead. I never liked thinking ahead. Then there were months of isolation. where i did literally nothing more than thinking. I would say I'm conceptual but i have a hard time dealing with emotions. I was a scartist as a kid. A mix breed. i loved science and art fascinated me. i do not know which came first though. My sense of self is really unstable. Im prone to depressive episodes. I seem to be disconnected and detached at times.

    Right now i feel like an artist without the ability to express myself. I am unable to express strong feelings. I use my head a lot. i fit into the type 4s except for the fact that I'm not so focused on success (not a 3 wing at all) and i don't really seem to hate myself. Ive questioned my existence, asking myself on how my existence mattered if i couldn't be seen for who i was. I often feel that people can't seem to understand me, they just don't.. i have inner worlds that i do not wish to speak of simply because its personal. I do long, yearn. not much for a rescurer bit for someone to see me for who i am and to be there with me. I tend to be on the lookout for someone that doesn't seem to exist. It is rather depressing. Im more of a loner, but i can be sociable. I just don't like to. So based on the above, could someone please explain my core type to me? I hope its clear enough.
    You sound like a 4w5 so/sx to me. The social 4 is generally the one that has issues with depression like you describe.

  9. #9
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    I also found this little tidbit to be very illuminating.


    PINK MANHATTAN: Enneagram 4w5: The Bohemian
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