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  1. #11
    alchemist Legion's Avatar
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    It's a cool theory. As I said a few times, my interpretation is that to control another is to be controlled by that other, and also that all forms of existence - whether physical matter or imagination - are essentially the one substance.

    Then, we have soul (self), base material (representation of outer) and the spirit, which is the communicator between the two worlds.

    So, it means that though happiness we make others happy, and so on.

    Which means...

    The number 2.

    It means 2.

  2. #12
    rûna Typh0n's Avatar
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    Interesting system, it has potential, I think. Its too bad the author is no longer active.

  3. #13
    Honor Thy Inferior Such Irony's Avatar
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    I suppose I'd be a 5, 6, or 7 in this system. One of the air types, but I'm not quite sure which.
    INtp
    5w6 or 9w1 sp/so/sx, I think
    Ravenclaw/Hufflepuff
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  4. #14
    Junior Member Ayuhime's Avatar
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    Hey, a Palpa thread. Didn't know that he was on TC as well
    Humankind is the one to 'domesticate' other beings and has most problem with 'domesticating' themselves.

    9w1 sp/so INTP LII-Ne
    Neutral Good
    Ravenpuff
    Agnostic AroAce Alien
    All the other fancy labels too, I guess.

    I only know that I really don't know anything and you probably don't too.

  5. #15

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    This has no basis of logic at all. Not only are many of the systems of the Enneagram disrupted/broken in this, but there is no worthwhile reason given for that.

    No offense, but haphazard value-less attempts at innovation (simply for its own sake) are stupid and sad. One should not seek to simply create something (anything!) new, one should seek to understand first what already works-- understanding is what gives way to true, purposeful innovation. I'll never understand this feverish desire that humans sometimes have to fix what is very much not broken.
    Find my Enneagram writing here. Also, I'd love for you to take my six question Enneagram surveyEnneagram survey!✨
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  6. #16
    Mind Wanderer Zeego's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by small.wonder View Post
    No offense, but haphazard value-less attempts at innovation (simply for its own sake) are stupid and sad. One should not seek to simply create something (anything!) new, one should seek to understand first what already works-- understanding is what gives way to true, purposeful innovation. I'll never understand this feverish desire that humans sometimes have to fix what is very much not broken.
    I get what you're saying, but I'd argue on the contrary that "to simply create something" is a powerful act that should be encouraged. It's so easy to destroy, to overanalyze and nitpick until there's nothing left, but to create takes true bravery. To create is to risk being accused of making "haphazard value-less attempts at innovation" by others. Personally, I support anyone who attempts to make a system like this, but that's just me.
    We will meet again in Etruria.

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  7. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeego View Post
    I get what you're saying, but I'd argue on the contrary that "to simply create something" is a powerful act that should be encouraged. It's so easy to destroy, to overanalyze and nitpick until there's nothing left, but to create takes true bravery. To create is to risk being accused of making "haphazard value-less attempts at innovation" by others. Personally, I support anyone who attempts to make a system like this, but that's just me.
    I would agree with you in many cases, but the attempt at "creation" here is, in actuality, breaking the beautifully working system that already exists-- with no fruitful result to show for it in the end. Really, it's just piggy backing on something that already works wonderfully (The Enneagram), by creating a non-working convoluted caveat to it. Where is the value in that? Just to say that it's been "improved on" or added to? It seems to me that our culture has a ridiculous fixation with needing to improve all things, broken or not.
    Find my Enneagram writing here. Also, I'd love for you to take my six question Enneagram surveyEnneagram survey!✨

  8. #18
    ¤ Zarathustra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by small.wonder View Post
    This has no basis of logic at all. Not only are many of the systems of the Enneagram disrupted/broken in this, but there is no worthwhile reason given for that.

    No offense, but haphazard value-less attempts at innovation (simply for its own sake) are stupid and sad. One should not seek to simply create something (anything!) new, one should seek to understand first what already works-- understanding is what gives way to true, purposeful innovation. I'll never understand this feverish desire that humans sometimes have to fix what is very much not broken.
    I don't think it's really "breaking" anything at all...

    It's just an entirely different system...

    Most people don't know this yet, but the Enneagram is based on a 3x3 system.

    And the first element has the same 3 options as the second element.

    As I have explained here before, Armando Molina breaks these down according to the categories Robert S. Hartman created/discovered to ground ethics on an objective basis, which became the basis/foundation of his formal axiology, and subsequently the Hartman Value Profile.

    Hartman called these three categories the Realms of Value.

    They are:

    Intrinsic
    Extrinsic
    Systemic

    Or, in shorthand:

    I
    E
    S

    The first element of the 3x3 refers to the Center of Intelligence.

    Thus:

    The Gut is the Intrinsic (I) center
    The Heart is the Extrinsic (E) center
    The Head is the Systemic (S) center

    Thus, we get:

    8I
    9I
    1I

    2E
    3E
    4E

    5S
    6S
    7S

    The second element of the 3x3 refers to each type's Manifestation within its Center.

    Thus:

    8IE
    9II
    1IS

    2ES
    3EE
    4EI

    5SI
    6SS
    7SE

    Center (I or E or S) x Manifestation within Center (I or E or S) = 9 types

    This is the fundamental underlying structure of the Enneagram.

    Even Naranjo gives Molina enormous kudos for this realization.

    By comparison, the system the OP enumerates is just entirely different.

    It is basically the astrological zodiac, just taken out of order, and put into "Centers of Intelligence" based on on the four elements: air, water, earth, and fire.

    He has then combined the four elements with the alchemical tria prima (sulphur, mercury, and salt), to create a 4x3 system, resulting in 12 types.

    Interestingly enough, the tria prima categories actually map pretty perfectly onto Hartman's categories (the 3 Realms of Value).

    Thus:

    Intrinsic = Mercury
    Extrinsic = Sulphur
    Systemic = Salt

    So half of his construction does actually relate back to the Enneagram.

    The four classical elements vs the three Intelligence Centers is the fundamental difference.
    The Justice Fighter

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    "I trust what you are doing though…I just see it a little differently.
    I don’t see it as you stepping away from the fire. I see it as the fire directing your course.
    No matter how airy or earthy or watery you become... to many of us you will always be...a super nova."

    "Behind these gates of seeming warmth sits, loosely chained, a fierce attack dog. Perhaps not crazy, but dangerous"

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  9. #19
    Mind Wanderer Zeego's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    Most people don't know this yet, but the Enneagram is based on a 3x3 system.
    Yes! I have actually spoken about this before elsewhere, but maybe not on TypoC. Almost every personality type system is based around some prime number: 2, 3, 5, 7, etc. (A personality system based around 1 would be a holistic "we are all one consciousness" philosophy instead of a typology.) In the case of MBTI and Socionics, it's 2: 2 x 2 x 2 x 2 = 16. The only personality system I know of that's based around 5 is the Five Temperaments. I don't know of any based around 7 at the moment.
    We will meet again in Etruria.

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  10. #20
    ¤ Zarathustra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeego View Post
    Yes! I have actually spoken about this before elsewhere, but maybe not on TypoC. Almost every personality type system is based around some prime number: 2, 3, 5, 7, etc. (A personality system based around 1 would be a holistic "we are all one consciousness" philosophy instead of a typology.) In the case of MBTI and Socionics, it's 2: 2 x 2 x 2 x 2 = 16. The only personality system I know of that's based around 5 is the Five Temperaments. I don't know of any based around 7 at the moment.
    Well, the Enneagram is actually based on the Laws of 3 and 7.

    It's also based on the Law of 0, making 3 laws that it's based on.

    0 and 1 play a huge role in myths and legends around the world.

    And it has to do with fixation (1), liberation (0), and the circle.

    7 was also obviously the basis for the 7 deadly sins.

    Which is essentially a medieval typology of sorts.

    You are correct in seeing the 2x2x2x2, 3x3 etc

    The Justice Fighter

    INTJ - 6w5 8dw 3w4 sx/so - Neutral Good

    "I trust what you are doing though…I just see it a little differently.
    I don’t see it as you stepping away from the fire. I see it as the fire directing your course.
    No matter how airy or earthy or watery you become... to many of us you will always be...a super nova."

    "Behind these gates of seeming warmth sits, loosely chained, a fierce attack dog. Perhaps not crazy, but dangerous"

    The Aggressive 6
    Debator

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