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  1. #1
    Senior Member Ene's Avatar
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    Default Hardest thing about being a 9

    ...is that sick feeling in my gut when there is confrontation,

    when I feel people are getting all riled up and angry words are about to fly.

    I cannot stand them.

    Arguments and volitile emotions make me physically sick, like an acute stomach virus, and if my attempts at reasoning or calming are ignored, I'll likely walk away, not because I'm afraid, but because I don't want to say or do something I'll later regret in my efforts to re-establish order. I think for safety's sake, never follow a 9 when they walk out. It is for the protection of others that they do it.
    We are trying to avoid going Dark Phoenix (comic book version of X-men, storyline from sometime in the 80s) or becoming the Hulk.

    I think 9s have a tendency to want to make it stop even before it starts.

    I think also the hardest thing about an eight wing is that a sudden burst of rage comes from seemingly nowhere at all and forcefully demands it to cease and desist.

    These are things I don't love about being a 9 and sometimes I wish I had the ability to just not give a care how my words and actions affected others, but I can never turn off the seeing of a dozen different futures and I can never turn off caring about the impact on the lives of others.

    And people accuse you of being wishy-washy or a push over, but all the while you're fuming on the inside and it's because you know you see into them enough to verbally cripple them for the rest of their natural lives, but you hold back, not because you're wishy-washy, but because you see things you have no way of explaining, of making them understand. They will ridicule you and mock you and laugh in your face or behind your back and call you crazy and even if you could make them understand, is it your job to do so?

    Just a few random thoughts on what it's like to be a 9. Feel free to weigh in, especially if you're a 9.
    A student said to his master: "You teach me fighting, but you talk about peace. How do you reconcile the two?" The master replied: "It is better to be a warrior in a garden than to be a gardener in a war." - unknown/Chinese

    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...=61024&page=14
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  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ene View Post
    ...is that sick feeling in my gut when there is confrontation,

    when I feel people are getting all riled up and angry words are about to fly.

    I cannot stand them.

    Arguments and volitile emotions make me physically sick, like an acute stomach virus, and if my attempts at reasoning or calming are ignored, I'll likely walk away, not because I'm afraid, but because I don't want to say or do something I'll later regret in my efforts to re-establish order. I think for safety's sake, never follow a 9 when they walk out. It is for the protection of others that they do it.
    We are trying to avoid going Dark Phoenix (comic book version of X-men, storyline from sometime in the 80s) or becoming the Hulk.

    I think 9s have a tendency to want to make it stop even before it starts.

    I think also the hardest thing about an eight wing is that a sudden burst of rage comes from seemingly nowhere at all and forcefully demands it to cease and desist.

    These are things I don't love about being a 9 and sometimes I wish I had the ability to just not give a care how my words and actions affected others, but I can never turn off the seeing of a dozen different futures and I can never turn off caring about the impact on the lives of others.

    And people accuse you of being wishy-washy or a push over, but all the while you're fuming on the inside and it's because you know you see into them enough to verbally cripple them for the rest of their natural lives, but you hold back, not because you're wishy-washy, but because you see things you have no way of explaining, of making them understand. They will ridicule you and mock you and laugh in your face or behind your back and call you crazy and even if you could make them understand, is it your job to do so?

    Just a few random thoughts on what it's like to be a 9. Feel free to weigh in, especially if you're a 9.
    Yep, 9s can be bears.

    When I was 17 or 18 I pushed my parent's screen door open so hard it came off the hinges because they were fighting. I've also smashed plenty of mirrors, glasses, rearview car mirrors--usually with my bare hands--to count anymore--always as a result of or in reaction to some conflict.

    People don't see this side of me much--most will never see it--but when it happens, it scares the living piss out of people. My parents were so caught off guard by the door incident that they probably forgot what they were fighting over. They just looked shocked, like they didn't know I was capable of that level of rage.

    I don't rage often, but when I do, people should get the hell out of my way in their own best interests.

    I'm not usually accused of being wishy washy, but I tend to sit back and let others decide things unless I really have something to say or I have a definite decision in mind. I like to have shit settled, I hate deliberating longer than necessary over something as trivial as which restaurant to eat at. Sometimes I hold back because I know my words can be very blunt and have a way of hurting others when they weren't intended to.

    That's another aspect of my anger--the verbal side. If people anger me, my words can do far more damage than my physical anger. The thing is, my words usually come out as very Ti organized observations, so they aren't always intended to hurt, but I call it like I see it, especially if I am angry. 99 % of the time, my words are truth, based on past observations, so perhaps this is why it can be so damaging--I come off as laid back, even aloof sometimes, but I remember A LOT of what I see and hear, so I think it surprises people that I remember the things I remember.

    I think I more or less sums up that aspect of my 9-ness. I will add more later if I remember anything else.
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  3. #3
    Glamour puss with a tan Raffaella's Avatar
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    I think the process of escalation has always been an issue for me. Where I tell myself it'll be simple and I'll just make a comment asserting my needs becomes a confrontation because I'm actually inattentive to the amount of anger I'm genuinely holding onto.

    I, too, feel uncomfortable in conflict. My CP6 sister has this uncanny habit of testing our 2w3 brother-in-law which drives me insane because I think it's unnecessary and I instantly try to control the situation through deflection but she persists (both ISFJs interestingly). It's mostly snide comments back forth but I hate it, I'm under the impression they need to both need to deal with it maturely and stop being passive-aggressive. It doesn't bother anyone else, though.

    As for not having a backbone, when I was younger I was repeatedly told that I didn't have a backbone as I grew older people starting making comments that they didn't get much of a personality from me. One such incident, a friend of mine made a racist comment, I hadn't realised that her ignorant comments had angered me over the course of our friendship so I snapped at her then. Another friend was listening to us and it seemed amuse him that I was angry (as if I couldn't get angry) so I turned around and snapped it him, too. I surprised myself and everyone around me.

    My anger doesn't manifest physically but it does go on for longer. I genuinely need a week after I had outburst. I've gotten into a confrontation and the person was happy to move on within a few days, I found as much I tried I couldn't. Every time they said something I was tempted to sneer at them so I had to distant myself for a few weeks.

    I've found a physical manifestation of anger does sometimes help me deal with it. I've had those days where nothing is good enough and I've gone home and trashed my room/apartment and it felt better after I calmed down and cried.

    I do have a vent book that I used to use, not so much these days because I've found that writing it down made it worse, it wasn't the peak, it was the beginning, it accelerated the release of suppressed or forgotten anger.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Ene's Avatar
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    @Starcrash

    I really enjoyed reading your response and identified with it immensely. I guess it's just good to know sometimes that I'm not the only person who has the capacity to turn green and grow to a ginormous size [metaphorically speaking] Although, I seem so calm on the outside 99% of the time.


    When I was 17 or 18 I pushed my parent's screen door open so hard it came off the hinges because they were fighting. I've also smashed plenty of mirrors, glasses, rearview car mirrors--usually with my bare hands--to count anymore--always as a result of or in reaction to some conflict.
    Yes! I've had some similar incidents, taking off down through the midst of a cornfield in a woman's car just to get her to stop yammering at me, throwing a 20 pound dumb bell at a guy, slamming a full cup of coffee into a wall and smashing the cup into several pieces...yep, these that the things. It happens only rarely but when it has happened, it has always been a direct reaction to some conflict and results from my need to make it stop.

    People don't see this side of me much--most will never see it--
    Me, too.
    but when it happens, it scares the living piss out of people.
    Every time for me.

    My parents were so caught off guard by the door incident that they probably forgot what they were fighting over. They just looked shocked, like they didn't know I was capable of that level of rage.
    I thin that's it. People don't know the level of rage we're capable of because it is rare that we go there.

    I don't rage often, but when I do, people should get the hell out of my way in their own best interests.
    Haha..."You wouldn't like me when I'm angry."

    I'm not usually accused of being wishy washy, but I tend to sit back and let others decide things unless I really have something to say or I have a definite decision in mind.[QUOTE] Actually, that is what I do, too, but I think that because I'm female, small and soft-spoken people automatically assume that I'm wishy-washy.

    I like to have shit settled, I hate deliberating longer than necessary over something as trivial as which restaurant to eat at.
    Yes!

    Sometimes I hold back because I know my words can be very blunt and have a way of hurting others when they weren't intended to.
    I weigh most every word in my head before I speak it I try very hard to gather all of the facts, to be objective, to see different angles. Sometimes, my tongue can be pretty sharp.

    99 % of the time, my words are truth, based on past observations, so perhaps this is why it can be so damaging--I come off as laid back, even aloof sometimes, but I remember A LOT of what I see and hear, so I think it surprises people that I remember the things I remember.
    I totally identify with this. I've been accused of being aloof on more than one occasion. It's not something I think that's conscious.

    I think I more or less sums up that aspect of my 9-ness. I will add more later if I remember anything else.
    Thank you. I really enjoyed reading your thoughts on this.
    A student said to his master: "You teach me fighting, but you talk about peace. How do you reconcile the two?" The master replied: "It is better to be a warrior in a garden than to be a gardener in a war." - unknown/Chinese

    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...=61024&page=14
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  5. #5
    Senior Member Ene's Avatar
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    @Deceptive
    I think the process of escalation has always been an issue for me. Where I tell myself it'll be simple and I'll just make a comment asserting my needs becomes a confrontation because I'm actually inattentive to the amount of anger I'm genuinely holding onto.
    That actually makes a lot of sense.
    I, too, feel uncomfortable in conflict. My CP6 sister has this uncanny habit of testing our 2w3 brother-in-law which drives me insane because I think it's unnecessary and I instantly try to control the situation through deflection but she persists (both ISFJs interestingly). It's mostly snide comments back forth but I hate it, I'm under the impression they need to both need to deal with it maturely and stop being passive-aggressive. It doesn't bother anyone else, though.
    I just hate to be caught in the midst of this type of thing. I sympathize with you on this!

    As for not having a backbone, when I was younger I was repeatedly told that I didn't have a backbone as I grew older people starting making comments that they didn't get much of a personality from me. One such incident, a friend of mine made a racist comment, I hadn't realised that her ignorant comments had angered me over the course of our friendship so I snapped at her then. Another friend was listening to us and it seemed amuse him that I was angry (as if I couldn't get angry) so I turned around and snapped it him, too. I surprised myself and everyone around me.
    I've had similar things happen. I was recently told by a close friend, "You're just observing, holding off on judgment altogether until you feel you've gather enough info, but people think it means you're a pushover, but really....you're not."

    I've found a physical manifestation of anger does sometimes help me deal with it. I've had those days where nothing is good enough and I've gone home and trashed my room/apartment and it felt better after I calmed down and cried.
    I think martial arts has really helped me to deal with it and truthfully, when I'm angry, I NEED to do something physical, a preferably a little bit challenging.
    I do have a vent book that I used to use, not so much these days because I've found that writing it down made it worse, it wasn't the peak, it was the beginning, it accelerated the release of suppressed or forgotten anger.
    I have been known to write letters and really lay it all on the line then after I've thought about it, I just end up burning them. The act of burning paper is peaceful to me. haha...
    A student said to his master: "You teach me fighting, but you talk about peace. How do you reconcile the two?" The master replied: "It is better to be a warrior in a garden than to be a gardener in a war." - unknown/Chinese

    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...=61024&page=14
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  6. #6
    can't handcuff the wind Z Buck McFate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ene View Post
    I think also the hardest thing about an eight wing is that a sudden burst of rage comes from seemingly nowhere at all and forcefully demands it to cease and desist.
    This is really interesting to hear about, and I wonder how exclusively w8 it is. My dad and my son are both 9 (probably 9w1), and I've never seen anything like this. I can't even imagine either of them lashing out. When they get pushed, they'll get passive-aggressive and dig in their heels about not doing things- they stay way on the 'passive' end of that spectrum, and merely accumulate more and more things to refuse to do (lol)- that's the only way to know they're angry at someone, ever. People who don't pick up on that get avoided like the plague, and I'd thought it was because the kind of outbursts you describe are so completely overwhelming and horrible to them that they'll do anything to avoid it.

    My sister though- 9w8- I wish she had direct outbursts like what you describe. I do see something like sudden bursts of rage come out of her, but it's more in the form of passive-aggressive mind games. It's not intentional, but it's like she needs to stifle reality about certain things- in herself and others- and she says whatever it takes to kinda bully people into at least acting like they are going along with it. It's something clearly more on the aggressive end of the passive-aggressive spectrum than I see in my son or my dad- and I presume it's the w8. I think what you describe in the op is actually a much healthier kind of outburst. (And anyway, I'm just wondering if any kind of 'outburst' is a w8 thing- because it seems like my other 9s are so absolutely afraid of anything that might ultimately push them to have an outburst that they avoid it.)
    Reality is a collective hunch. -Lily Tomlin

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  7. #7
    Senior Member ceecee's Avatar
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    I understand all this, my husband is a 9, probably w8 and I think he may have had these outbursts when he was younger. On the flip side, that means he doesn't do the passive-aggressive thing (we would have BIG problems if he did).

    I guess what I wonder most is why the 9's don't verbalize all these insights they have prior to a confrentation? Why does it come down to a confrontation and having to suppress them? I get the impact it may/may not have on someone they care about but the level the 9's suppress, that in itself is scary. Much more than what I'd fear in an altercation. With an 8, you know what you're getting. 9's, no.

    For my husband, it seems to be the actual yelling, not what is being yelled, that bothers him most. He's never accused of being wishy-washy or not having a backbone but confrontation really does something bad to him, when it's over. It takes him a fair amount of time for him to get back to normal (maybe because he outgrew those outbursts). Many times I think - I'll handle this, confrontation doesn't do anything negative to me (obviously) but I can't always do that and I don't want to emasculate him either. I just want him to know that some confrontation is ok. If he yelled, I would be surprised to hear the yelling but then I would go - yeaaaah....let it out!
    I like to rock n' roll all night and *part* of every day. I usually have errands... I can only rock from like 1-3.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Ene's Avatar
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    @Z Buck McFate
    This is really interesting to hear about, and I wonder how exclusively w8 it is.
    I wonder that, too.

    My dad and my son are both 9 (probably 9w1), and I've never seen anything like this. I can't even imagine either of them lashing out. When they get pushed, they'll get passive-aggressive and dig in their heels about not doing things- they stay way on the 'passive' end of that spectrum, and merely accumulate more and more things to refuse to do (lol)- that's the only way to know they're angry at someone, ever. People who don't pick up on that get avoided like the plague, and I'd thought it was because the kind of outbursts you describe are so completely overwhelming and horrible to them that they'll do anything to avoid it.
    That list of things to refuse to do is kind of comical in a way.

    My sister though- 9w8- I wish she had direct outbursts like what you describe
    . I used to have a lot of guilt to deal with after them.
    I do see something like sudden bursts of rage come out of her, but it's more in the form of passive-aggressive mind games. It's not intentional, but it's like she needs to stifle reality about certain things- in herself and others- and she says whatever it takes to kinda bully people into at least acting like they are going along with it.
    I can see where some wing 8s might do this.

    It's something clearly more on the aggressive end of the passive-aggressive spectrum than I see in my son or my dad- and I presume it's the w8. I think what you describe in the op is actually a much healthier kind of outburst. (And anyway, I'm just wondering if any kind of 'outburst' is a w8 thing- because it seems like my other 9s are so absolutely afraid of anything that might ultimately push them to have an outburst that they avoid it.)
    I think you're right. I think it may well be a wing 8 thing. I admit, a few times when I was a teenager and when I was a kid, I actually resorted to using my fists. Later, I discovered that if I could just get outdoors and go for a walk or do anything physical that I could work through the anger and return to my calm self again.
    A student said to his master: "You teach me fighting, but you talk about peace. How do you reconcile the two?" The master replied: "It is better to be a warrior in a garden than to be a gardener in a war." - unknown/Chinese

    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...=61024&page=14

  9. #9
    Senior Member Ene's Avatar
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    @ceecee I'm at work and my break time is over, but I love your post and I'll be back first chance I get to talk to you about it.
    A student said to his master: "You teach me fighting, but you talk about peace. How do you reconcile the two?" The master replied: "It is better to be a warrior in a garden than to be a gardener in a war." - unknown/Chinese

    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...=61024&page=14

  10. #10
    Senior Member riva's Avatar
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    Assuming i am a 9 i can't relate at all. I have however seen this on other 9s.

    It could be because of fhe environment i grew up in - cp6 estp sister and e8 estj father.
    .

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