[Traditional Enneagram] Hardest thing about being a 9

[Doctor Cringelord]

Sometimes I feel phoney even discussing problems, in my mind it doesn't matter. Then there are those times were you believe everyone's making a bigger deal of something than they should (both great indicators of disintegration).

Yes. Same here.

 

[Ene]

Yes. Same here.

Yeah, me too. [MENTION=20828]Deceptive[/MENTION] you said it so perfectly.

 

[Kasper]

You've explained it wonderfully and the gifs are perfect. I've seen that Kanye West face on my husband a million times while I do the Tom Hiddleston gif. The desire not to burden others just makes me sad. I want him to let it out and I've assured him he would be safe with me. Even if it was about me. I'm not saying he never asserts himself - he does and it's really impressive when he does. I only think outbursts that would be otherwise inappropriate, aren't inappropriate with me. If he is unable to do it, I do understand but, my door is open.

That is all I would need, reassurance whenever appropriate that there are no boundaries with you and nothing would scare you off. I would be surprised if he didn't know that about you, the reassurance would never be a bad thing though.

One thing that I personally find helpful is having physical contact with a partner if there is a disagreement/difficult topic to broach as the breaking of a connection is the fear point, if there is physical contact such as a hand on a knee then the threat of disconnection is diminished.

It is a place of comfort to us not to always let it out, even at the highest levels of health we would be picky about what is worth taking on, I see 9w8 v 8w9 as the inverse of each other in a way, for the 8, the desire is to take things head on and deal with disagreements immediately, at high levels of health an 8 would know when to let things go, the 9s desire is to let things go, and we should know when they need to be addressed. So long as a 9 is aware of their own needs and know when to not accept poor treatment, it's healthy, we generally aren't a blunt force in disagreements, more diplomatic but the end result we work towards is the same; respect.

 

[senza tema]

Sometimes I feel phoney even discussing problems, in my mind it doesn't matter. Then there are those times were you believe everyone's making a bigger deal of something than they should (both great indicators of disintegration).

Is this exclusive to 9s? I'm asking because I feel this way as well ... and it is why I also mistyped as a 9 for a long time. I felt average. So average that I was practically invisible. And I saw that everyone around me was better at making their problems known than I was and got negative reactions whenever I tried to express my own. So I started trying to believe that it was because my problems didn't matter. Or that, at least, they were no different from anyone else's because the problems I do have arise from just being human.

It's only when someone pointed out that I use self-deprecation and effacement as a persona - a persona which is perhaps more crafted than I gave it credit for - that I started considering the fact that I was indeed a 4.

But for all that, I still do think my problems don't count for much with others and have a hard time truly expressing them unless I am very upset or angry.

I guess I'm wondering what makes the 9 brand of self-neglect tick.

 

[Raffaella]

Is this exclusive to 9s? I'm asking because I feel this way as well ... and it is why I also mistyped as a 9 for a long time. I felt average. So average that I was practically invisible. And I saw that everyone around me was better at making their problems known than I was and got negative reactions whenever I tried to express my own. So I started trying to believe that it was because my problems didn't matter. Or that, at least, they were no different from anyone else's because the problems I do have arise from just being human.

I don't think we get mostly reactions when we state our problems (that seems very e4, to be honest). I think we have a tendency to downplay them since we either feel uncomfortable drawing attention to ourselves, don't believe there's a problem, don't believe our problems matter or don't know how to word the problem after years and years of ignoring them. I think the usual reaction from others is surprise, surprise that we're even commenting or acknowledging a problem or that we have problems because we're excellent at avoiding them and holding onto the silver-lining therefore we appear unflappable and content.

But for all that, I still do think my problems don't count for much with others and have a hard time truly expressing them unless I am very upset or angry.

This is actually very Fi, most fi-doms struggle to word their problems (due to low Te) in heat or tears.

I guess I'm wondering what makes the 9 brand of self-neglect tick.

For 9s, it's the idea that you're inherently unloveable therefore your needs don't matter hence the accommodation and conflict avoidance. Would you say that you relate to that?

Here's an effective piece written by a 9, I think if you don't relate much to it, you're probably not a 9. If you do, you need to read into the idea of holy origin of e4.

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

Let's discuss how 9s differ across the different mbti types.

 

[Ene]

Let's discuss how 9s differ across the different mbti types.

I think this is a great idea. I would love to see both the similarities and differences.

What did you have in mind as to how we should go about it?

 

[indra]

Hearing rants about how people should just be blunt with their speech and actions. How unwise. Yet to them it sounds good, as they feed the beast nature has made them.

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

I think this is a great idea. I would love to see both the similarities and differences.

What did you have in mind as to how we should go about it?

I don't want to derail this thread too far off topic. I already have a thread specifically about being an ISTP 9, but I don't think it would be redundant to start a new one covering all MBTI/socionics/etc 9s.

 

[Ene]

I don't want to derail this thread too far off topic. I already have a thread specifically about being an ISTP 9, but I don't think it would be redundant to start a new one covering all MBTI/socionics/etc 9s.

I agree. I'll check out your thread, too, btw.

 

[Flâneuse]

For me:

- feeling the contradictory urges to show my true self to others and to hide my true feelings, thoughts and preferences in order to not only avoid conflict, but to avoid rubbing others the wrong way or drawing too much attention to myself as well.

- the challenge of tearing down the beautiful illusion of connection in order to have the building ground for real connections.
having trouble revealing my true self (and to a lesser extent, a tendency to idealize certain others) can make it difficult to form deep, sincere relationships. If I have special feelings for someone (romantic or not), I'm especially reluctant to reveal anything that the other person would dislike about me, even if it's something that's essential to who I am. It's like part of me wants to hold onto the pleasant illusion of perfect connection with the other person, rather than facing the messier reality of who we both are and recognizing the areas where we haven't connected yet, which is necessary to form genuine connections (that become deeper over time rather than becoming stagnant and insincere), but could also result in unresolvable conflict, finding that you're just too different and that the desired level of understanding is unlikely to be obtained, and total separation (someone leaving).

- sometimes, an inability to feel life as deeply as I want to. I feel more numb to the highs and lows than I once did.

 

[hornet]

The hardest thing is to let go of the anger.
Not the little issue that triggered it.
But all the stored repressed energy in your body that has a negative charge.
Cause when you release it, it wants to interact with the world and due to it's negative polarity
it will seek out negativity.
If nothing is there you will start to associate and remember past issues that felt similar to the state you are now in.
Leading to a much higher probability of you creating more suffering for yourself than constructive solutions.
Awareness is key, but it is not the kind of awareness that you can get overnight.
Most likely it will take you years to even begin to understand how this connects.
The only shortcut is systems like the enneagram that can guide your focus.

When you dig past the anger you will find something.
Some people think that some nirvana like state awaits, but actually you will find clues
to why you are in this shutdown state that we refer to as type 9.
These are issues that you need to overcome, cause if you don't, you will just accumulate more stagnated energy.
I'm hesitant to label these issues cause I don't like to presume that what ails me ails you.
Even though there seem to be a correlation on the surface I think that one should let others
find their own subjective take on the underlying issues to their negative state of being.