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Thread: 4w5s + love

  1. #11
    Glamour puss with a tan Raffaella's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lulabelle View Post
    i'm just reporting what i see people say about these relationships on various forums. it is my understanding that the ESTJ-INFP dynamic is often quite a fraught one (and i simply have never seen this relationship with 4w5 INFPs). if you have different experiences or know others with different experiences, please chime in!
    Considering that most people seek out typology when in a relationship mostly due to conflicts and to understand their partners then you're more likely to hear the negative aspects but you need to be more realistic. You're only focusing on the negative, there are 7.162 billion people in the world, of which there are roughly 716 million ESTJs and roughly 286 million INFPs so we can assume there are about 15 million ESTJ-INFP relationships, do you think they're all unhappy? Do you think they're all INFP 9s?

    And, this is irrelevant, but since you ask, yes, I'm attending the wedding of an INFP/ESTJ couple next month. They're not perfect (what couple is?) but they're content and compatible.

  2. #12
    Senior Member lulabelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deceptive View Post
    Considering that most people seek out typology when in a relationship mostly due to conflicts and to understand their partners then you're more likely to hear the negative aspects but you need to be more realistic. You're only focusing on the negative, there are 7.162 billion people in the world, of which there are roughly 716 million ESTJs and roughly 286 million INFPs so we can assume there are about 15 million ESTJ-INFP relationships, do you think they're all unhappy? Do you think they're all INFP 9s?

    And, this is irrelevant, but since you ask, yes, I'm attending the wedding of an INFP/ESTJ couple next month. They're not perfect (what couple is?) but they're content and compatible.
    i don't 'need' to be anything. please, no more lectures. i'm perfectly aware that shared experiences online re: various type relationships are not the be-all end-all for understanding compatibility, but they're interesting to consider + i don't think they should be wholly disregarded. and obviously people speak about their relationships more to criticize, but this is true of every type, and so i'm considering this when i look at all the information out there.
    it would be interesting to hear of ESTJ_INFP 4w5 relationships; alas, i haven't heard of any. and i don't think that just because there are a certain number of ESTJ-INFP relationships, there necessarily must be a certain amount of INFP 4w5s in them. from INFP 4w5s and ESTJs i know and have read about, we value very different things, tend to operate in very very different ways and seek very different kinds of support and resonance from our partners. do not worry; i'm not drowning in despair. i simply wanted to hear about INFP 4w5 relationships that have worked longterm, not ones that function in theory or whatever.

  3. #13
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arcana View Post
    Are you a 7 or a 9?

    I'll be perfectly honest and say the 4/7 combination is a challenging one for longterm relationships. Based on personal experience, I think the relationship is fun and exciting and adventurous and passionate at first but the 4 eventually wears the 7 down with relentless demands for emotional intensity all the time, the 7 starts feeling bored and trapped and reacts less and less, the 4 doesn't take the hint and keeps badgering while feeling wounded and unsatisfied, the 7 ultimately bails, and the 4 throws a "woe is me" pity party for one.

    I'd actually be interested in hearing how you guys make it work if you are indeed a 7. I don't know much about 9/4 relationships, I think there would be another set of problems there but I have limited first hand experience. My inclination though is to say it sounds easier that 4/7.
    idk maybe 9 i haven't completely committed to the idea yet
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
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  4. #14
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arcana View Post
    Are you a 7 or a 9?

    I'll be perfectly honest and say the 4/7 combination is a challenging one for longterm relationships. Based on personal experience, I think the relationship is fun and exciting and adventurous and passionate at first but the 4 eventually wears the 7 down with relentless demands for emotional intensity all the time, the 7 starts feeling bored and trapped and reacts less and less, the 4 doesn't take the hint and keeps badgering while feeling wounded and unsatisfied, the 7 ultimately bails, and the 4 throws a "woe is me" pity party for one.

    I'd actually be interested in hearing how you guys make it work if you are indeed a 7. I don't know much about 9/4 relationships, I think there would be another set of problems there but I have limited first hand experience. My inclination though is to say it sounds easier that 4/7.
    I certainly think it's promising, and any relationship is challenging anyway (if it's not, then boooring). Obviously INFPs like to imagine no one really suits us and that relationships will be some grandiose struggle of two human natures trying to merge and yet maintain their individual identities, because that's very romantic in a Bronte Sisters kind of way.

    I found I grew tired of a 7 I dated and purposely became evasive and ornery to be rid of him. They require a lot of emotional energy, but some of that problem is my own (5 wing = stingy with emotional energy, yet likely being draining myself when I am not withdrawn due to core 4). I feel trapped by their demands on time and interaction, and when I seek to retreat for needed recovery or take a perverse view for its own sake, then they find me ornery. The average 7 can't deal with unpleasantness very well, so my ornery mode agitates them. I'm well aware I go into it when seeking space.... and I rejoiced when the space was made permanent, because I was feeling suffocated.

    Quote Originally Posted by lulabelle View Post
    i can't imagine myself with an ESTJ ever. ever. i need someone with strong iNtuition and/or feelz who will appreciate and understand my weird creativity. i only ever hear of 4w5s with other iNtuitives. the one exception to this would be the INFP-ISFP pairing which occurs because of that deep Fi connection, i suppose.
    i think INFP enneagram 9s tend to be the ones who partner with ESTJs + it generally seems to go up in flames anyway.

    also, socionics is v confusing to me. still trying to figure out where i stand
    I can...provided he is super hot. My imagination stretches that far

    I have yet to see an INFP 4 with an ESTJ also. I most often see & hear of INFP 4s with ExxP 7s or INTx 5s. That's just personal observation of a very small pool of people.

    The inverse symmetry of the ESTJ 1 is intriguing, but I think an ENTJ 3 might provide the animus feel while still having the shared iNtuition and image triad focus (identity, forming a significance to others, etc).

    Quote Originally Posted by Deceptive View Post
    Considering that most people seek out typology when in a relationship mostly due to conflicts and to understand their partners then you're more likely to hear the negative aspects but you need to be more realistic. You're only focusing on the negative, there are 7.162 billion people in the world, of which there are roughly 716 million ESTJs and roughly 286 million INFPs so we can assume there are about 15 million ESTJ-INFP relationships, do you think they're all unhappy? Do you think they're all INFP 9s?

    And, this is irrelevant, but since you ask, yes, I'm attending the wedding of an INFP/ESTJ couple next month. They're not perfect (what couple is?) but they're content and compatible.
    Where in the world did you get those numbers?

    "Content and compatible" - that's my dream!
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  5. #15
    Post Human Post Qlip's Avatar
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    I'm stating to feel that love is only for the desperate and bored. Now that I feel relatively healthy and entertained, I don't get the urge to go outside of my own little orbit. I mean, I do things, I go out and about and interact with people but I feel like I keep missing the 'love boat' because I rarely run into people that engender excitement enough to change my course. My standards, not in 'quality', just in what I feel I connect to, and my self contentedness keeps me from starting casual relationships. I hear casual relationships turn into other things, but I guess I'll never find out.

    Of course, I feel like I'm missing out, but I have to be me.
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  6. #16
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    @Qlip "love is for the desperate and the bored" - how very mini xxTJ of you . It fits my cynical view of late, and I am both desperate and bored.

    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe
    Likes Qlip, Rambling liked this post

  7. #17
    Glamour puss with a tan Raffaella's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post

    Where in the world did you get those numbers?
    Assumptions, estimations and a probability tree, of course!


    "Content and compatible" - that's my dream!
    ROFL, I'm always impressed by the effort NFP E4s put into describing their ideal partner but horrified at how unrealistic it can be ("how can such a person exist?"). As a super lazy e9, my response is always the same: compatibility. Maybe I should hire an INFP e4 to write one for me.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    @Qlip "love is for the desperate and the bored" - how very mini xxTJ of you . It fits my cynical view of late, and I am both desperate and bored.
    If you really were you would've already found somebody to fall madly in love with.

    I have been wondering lately if I need to brighten up some, especially if I am saying mini xxTJ things. Maybe happy, hopeful expression will turn me into a magnet that attracts all good things in life. (I could barely manage to type that)

  9. #19
    Senior Member Nara's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lulabelle View Post
    i'm a 4w5 (4w5 9w8 5w4 sx/sp INFP) and am wondering with which types we tend to have good relationships. i am intensely withdrawn + feel like within me is an emotional ecosystem that can quite happily sustain + entertain itself forever yet i crave that perfectly understanding partner to resonate with me/it. what have your experiences in love been like? what is the enneagram and MBTI of your most compatible partner?
    I'm looking for the same things (and according to my little experience, INFJs are a perfect match, perhaps for an INFP it would be ENFJs, but definitely a 4 idealist would be really at ease with another idealist).
    I had this conversation with a friend of mine who didn't understand where comes from this need to be deeply understood by a significant other(and also the need of putting oneself in the other shoes to understand him/her totally). He told me I was telling myself a whole story, I was "outside", putting labels and words, instead of being "inside" and actually live it.

    So the trick is I think the 5 wing causes to withdraw in the story we built on the relationship, despite the fact we need to connect on an emotionnal level first.

    IMO, when we're not mature enough, we tend to gravitate towards cold intellectual mates (like 5s, quite comforting at first but in the long term it was frustrating) or on the contrary some sort of "shallow feelers" (and it'll be frustrating in the short term because of the "you think too much" who will pop up very soon). It's all about balance, your mind needs an interesting and stimulating partner of course but the real connection comes from the heart...

    [So, I'd say - ironically - "don't think too much" about MBTI types and trust your guts. ]
    To exist is to change, to change is to mature, to mature is to go on creating oneself endlessly.
    Henri Bergson

    C'est faux de dire: Je pense : on devrait dire : On me pense.
    It is wrong to say: I think. One should say: I am thought.
    Arthur Rimbaud

  10. #20
    Senior Member lulabelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nara View Post
    I'm looking for the same things (and according to my little experience, INFJs are a perfect match, perhaps for an INFP it would be ENFJs, but definitely a 4 idealist would be really at ease with another idealist).
    I had this conversation with a friend of mine who didn't understand where comes from this need to be deeply understood by a significant other(and also the need of putting oneself in the other shoes to understand him/her totally). He told me I was telling myself a whole story, I was "outside", putting labels and words, instead of being "inside" and actually live it.

    So the trick is I think the 5 wing causes to withdraw in the story we built on the relationship, despite the fact we need to connect on an emotionnal level first.

    IMO, when we're not mature enough, we tend to gravitate towards cold intellectual mates (like 5s, quite comforting at first but in the long term it was frustrating) or on the contrary some sort of "shallow feelers" (and it'll be frustrating in the short term because of the "you think too much" who will pop up very soon). It's all about balance, your mind needs an interesting and stimulating partner of course but the real connection comes from the heart...

    [So, I'd say - ironically - "don't think too much" about MBTI types and trust your guts. ]
    INFJs are cool but they seem to have a LOT of issues with INFPs. when i do hear of the few examples of this partnership working longterm it seems to be a LOT of work, and the INFPs aren't 4w5s.

    my sister is an ENFJ and i tend to like people of the type but i just feel too.... weird for them. i feel like they tend to lack this kind of slight edge i need in my partner. i don't think they're inherently bland but maybe they're bland in the ways i need them to be a bit more unconventional/strange. i think if i were an e9 peacemaker do-gooder type INFP i might see more potential in this partnership

    i do think that it's trickier for an INFP 4w5 to find fulfilling longterm love. maybe i'll just end up with a male version of me

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