[Tritype] 964, 469, 649, etc: the Seeker tritype

[anastasiaromanova]

Seeker just means seeker. Mundane and or profound. Sure, unhealthy Seekers get lost and confused in ugly and pitiful ways. I hate being in full doubt mode. I much prefer the peaceful and content, but looking for higher knowledge mode when I am healthier.

But the unhealthy mode helps us to question things we never questioned before and see better. It helps us break out of bad patterns and dynamics.



/QUOTE]

Searching for Peace, I figured you were probably a Nine from your name and what little I just read from you here. And now I see that you're not only a 9 but a 9w8. And since the MAIN 'deadly' of the 9 is narcosis, and synergiizing with the 8 wing there is a peculiar grounded unmovable stubborness around it, I have little doubt (no pun intended) that seeing yourself as a 'Seeker' is helpful to you, because it helps you to MOVE out of the entrenched inertia of that type/wing configuration.

But it doesn't do that for most triple doubters because they're ALREADY moving. They're moving the way water moves in ripples when a stone is thrown into it. That is, in concentric circles going nowhere because of CONSTANT disruptions. Fluid, unsubstantial, HOPELESS movement to NOWHERE.

My ex-husband is 9w1-4w3-6w7 sx/soc. Three close friends are 4w3-6w7-9w1 soc/sx, 9w1-6w7-4w5 sp/sx, and 9w8-6w7-4w5 sx/sp. With the last one, the EXTREME Fourishness due to the wing type of the 4 fix and the sx/sp stacking (and also the placement of the 4 fix as SOCIAL 4 if we want to ascribe tritype fix-stacking correlations by order of the fixes, which though it sounds implausible, in reality it actually seems to work) creates a VERY Fourish, a very WATERY, elusive 9w8.

These people will 'seek' their way into a black hole FOREVER if they think of themselves primarily as Seekers, because it CONNOTES seekers after Truth...and they are flailing about like a fish on a hook over the SIMPLEST everyday occurrences. There is no QUEST. They're just lost in doubt.

Again: ALL the Fauvre titles, that is the one-word labels for the tritypes, are insufficient. There are BETTER ways of characterizing these tritype combinations. And the proof of the pudding is that whatever Gurdjieff was, he was VERY far from 4-6-9, but he was a QUINTESSENTIAL seeker. And MANY more can be named who were quintessential seekers who were far from 4-6-9.

Ergo, it is not the best label for the 4-6-9 tritype. Unless I'm mistaken and Gurdjieff was ALSO a triple doubter and triple sensitive. And aldo the Buddha. But they were probably an 8 and a 5, possibly both 3-fixed, and Gurdjieff definitely not 9-fixed.

Please pay ATTENTION. I've tried to say that when people say they're the Seeker, they're thinking of Seeker After TRUTH. And in far more cases than not, it prevents them from seeing the severity of the problem. The connotations of the title Seeker, inherently GLORIFY a big PROBLEM.

Again: you're a 9w8. Blessed be the non-conflict avoidant. You HAVE 8. Not to mention a very forceful, assertive stacking. Most triple doubters DON'T. Seeking answers to EVERYTHING doesn't HELP them because everything doesn't NEED to be questioned and to question everything is DANGEROUS for them.


This is getting convoluted. I've stated the case clearly. If you think questioning EVERYTHING is really so fabulous, why don't you try questioning whether Seeker is really such a fabulous label to get stuck in the heads of people who are routinely PARALYZED by CRIPPLING doubt and whether there are in reality more people like that in the 4-6-9 tribe than people like you.

 

[anastasiaromanova]

tbc, and in a nutshell, "Seeker" IMPLIES Seeker After Truth.

The majority of 4-6-9s are not SWIMMING in a river toward the truth. They are DROWNING in a vortex of doubt.

 

[SearchingforPeace]

Searching for Peace, I figured you were probably a Nine from your name and what little I just read from you here. And now I see that you're not only a 9 but a 9w8. And since the MAIN 'deadly' of the 9 is narcosis, and synergiizing with the 8 wing there is a peculiar grounded unmovable stubborness around it, I have little doubt (no pun intended) that seeing yourself as a 'Seeker' is helpful to you, because it helps you to MOVE out of the entrenched inertia of that type/wing configuration.

But it doesn't do that for most triple doubters because they're ALREADY moving. They're moving the way water moves in ripples when a stone is thrown into it. That is, in concentric circles going nowhere because of CONSTANT disruptions. Fluid, unsubstantial, HOPELESS movement to NOWHERE.

My ex-husband is 9w1-4w3-6w7 sx/soc. Three close friends are 4w3-6w7-9w1 soc/sx, 9w1-6w7-4w5 sp/sx, and 9w8-6w7-4w5 sx/sp. With the last one, the EXTREME Fourishness due to the wing type of the 4 fix and the sx/sp stacking (and also the placement of the 4 fix as SOCIAL 4 if we want to ascribe tritype fix-stacking correlations by order of the fixes, which though it sounds implausible, in reality it actually seems to work) creates a VERY Fourish, a very WATERY, elusive 9w8.

These people will 'seek' their way into a black hole FOREVER if they think of themselves primarily as Seekers, because it CONNOTES seekers after Truth...and they are flailing about like a fish on a hook over the SIMPLEST everyday occurrences. There is no QUEST. They're just lost in doubt.

Again: ALL the Fauvre titles, that is the one-word labels for the tritypes, are insufficient. There are BETTER ways of characterizing these tritype combinations. And the proof of the pudding is that whatever Gurdjieff was, he was VERY far from 4-6-9, but he was a QUINTESSENTIAL seeker. And MANY more can be named who were quintessential seekers who were far from 4-6-9.

Ergo, it is not the best label for the 4-6-9 tritype. Unless I'm mistaken and Gurdjieff was ALSO a triple doubter and triple sensitive. And also the Buddha. But they were FAR from it.

Please pay ATTENTION. I've tried to say that when people say they're the Seeker, they're thinking of Seeker After TRUTH. And in far more cases than not, it prevents them from seeing the severity of the problem. The connotations of the title Seeker, inherently GLORIFY a big PROBLEM.

Again: you're a 9w8. Blessed be the non-conflict avoidant. You HAVE 8. Not to mention a very forceful, assertive stacking. Most triple doubters DON'T. Seeking answers to EVERYTHING doesn't HELP them because everything doesn't NEED to be questioned and to question everything is DANGEROUS for them.

This is getting convoluted. I've stated the case clearly. If you think questioning EVERYTHING is really so fabulous, why don't you try questioning whether Seeker is really such a fabulous label to get stuck in the heads of people who are routinely PARALYZED by CRIPPLING doubt and whether there are in reality more people like that in the 4-6-9 tribe than people like you.

I don't think questioning everything is fabulous. I really dislike it. I get lost questioning simple things, trying to make sense of others and myself when it isn't necessary. I hate doubt. I love faith. I don't mind uncertainty, really. I cried for 90 minutes when I discovered my tritype. It resonated too strongly with me.

I have been to very very dark places and numbed myself to near oblivion. It sucks. But the dark night of the soul can help us see, at times, when we finally get out.

I even question my tritype constantly. I thought I was a 6 core originally, but others helped me to see I am really a 9 that was just in disintegration. Glad I am not anymore. And I can be a fierce beast when the eight wing is engaged, for sure.

 

[anastasiaromanova]

Seeker After Peace,

If you still question your tritype "constantly" may I suggest that you are a 9-leading triple doubter who is currently engaged in a 9-fueled project of positive reframing in order to avoid what is essential by being attached to the name Seeker for this triitype. And also that our little exchange reveals you to be a poster child for EXACTLY WHY that title--Seeker- is NOT the best word for this tritype. Not for you, not for ANYONE, and I was far too diplomatic about that. I also suggest that if you looked at this tritype as TRIPLE DOUBT, it might improve your life.

And also that your initial defense of the 'Seeker' archetype because you find answers to questions that nobody else even knew existed is feeding a very hungry lsx/soc stack and 4 fix that will ultimately wind up devouring you. You are wasting time and energy obsessing on whether you're 9 or 6 leading when you probably already know: a) that your friends are probably right, and b) that even if they're NOT, you can get self-knowledge through tritype alone regardless of main type. But not it you keep calling obsessing and spinning and ping-ponging seeking. This kind of "seeking", i.e. DOUBTING, doesn't make you 'special'. It just cannibalizes your life force, and probably that of those around you as well. Obsessing over whether you're a 9 or 6 is unattractive and vulgar. Tell your 4 fix I told you that.

And finally may I suggest that it would be better for you to actually take some time for all this to sink in and actually DO what I suggested--look at yourself as a triple-doubter, not a SEEKER, and see what emerges from that.

You can't seek anything if you are engaged in an ongoing enterprise to GLORIFY the mud in your eyes.

Reread what I wrote, think about it, sit with it, reframe the reframing, and let me know how it goes after you go there.


Cheers.

 

[anastasiaromanova]

ps I am Anastasia Romanova, the princess and daughter of a peasant by nature, who was brutally killed and resurrected many times by imposters and lived to tell the tale. I'm almost 60 years old and I've been in this business a long time and many friends and foes have guided me. Trust me.

Provisionally, of course.

 

[winterchild]

641 vs 649

ps I am Anastasia Romanova, the princess and daughter of a peasant by nature, who was brutally killed and resurrected many times by imposters and lived to tell the tale. I'm almost 60 years old and I've been in this business a long time and many friends and foes have guided me. Trust me.

Provisionally, of course.

Anastasia,

Read your conversation here with SearchingForPeace and found it extremely helpful. Would you mind explaining the difference between 649 and 641? Believed I was 641 but the more I read about 649 the more uncertain I am.

Really appreciate the "triple doubt" description and relate to that very strongly.

Thanks.

Winter

 

[SearchingforPeace]

Anastasia,

Read your conversation here with SearchingForPeace and found it extremely helpful. Would you mind explaining the difference between 649 and 641? Believed I was 641 but the more I read about 649 the more uncertain I am.

Really appreciate the "triple doubt" description and relate to that very strongly.

Thanks.

Winter

Well, as much it resonated with me, I realized that I am less 4 and more 2 in my tritype, so I am not this tritype, I believe....

 

[winterchild]

SearchingForPeace,

How did you determine you're more 2 than 4? Congrats on figuring that out!

Winter

 

[SearchingforPeace]

SearchingForPeace,

How did you determine you're more 2 than 4? Congrats on figuring that out!

Winter

I have a need to serve and help others. I tested 2w3 or 3w2 on tests for months. I really like helping others learn and grow. I need love and to feel love so I do things to get loved. I say nice to random people just to spread happiness. I push positive emotions constantly so others fill good.

It was the logical growth accepting I was a ENFJ rather than a INFJ. Many ENFJs are 2w3. I am 9w8 at the core, but 2w3 is close behind. I now question the 6w5 fix. I see aspects of 5 and 7 in me as well.....

 

[Sabine]

Sexual/Social 946

I'm sexual/social 946. I'm intuïtive, accepting, researching. I want to be special, I want to be peaceful.
I'm very sensitive. I feel intense feelings of selfdoubt and insecurity. I need other persons to confirm my opinion before I can come out with my opinion.
I want to be individualistic, but I'm always afraid to be separated from others. I avoid confrontations, they ensure that my whole body starts to tremble... :-s
I find it very difficult to stand in my own strength. I am very sad when I'm being overlooked...

 

[SearchingforPeace]

I'm sexual/social 946. I'm intuïtive, accepting, researching. I want to be special, I want to be peaceful.
I'm very sensitive. I feel intense feelings of selfdoubt and insecurity. I need other persons to confirm my opinion before I can come out with my opinion.
I want to be individualistic, but I'm always afraid to be separated from others. I avoid confrontations, they ensure that my whole body starts to tremble... :-s
I find it very difficult to stand in my own strength. I am very sad when I'm being overlooked...

Yes, you fit the Seeker profile well. Your words resonate with me.

 

[geedoenfj]

641 is me, no 9.. I'm not a peace maker, unfortunately..
I wish to develop more 9 though..

 

[Peter Deadpan]

After a lot of reflection and also significant effort trying to dig myself out of depression, I have settled on 461 for me, but I do have a lot of 9 as well.

I feel like when I've been in unhealthy relationships, I slip into more a 649 position. Does this seem plausible? When I first came to TypC, 649 definitely described me well. I had just moved out of my ex's home after a long and painful breakup and was soooo lost. I find as I come out of the clouds that I am more confident in who I am and don't feel the need to rely on others to define that for me (as in investing too much of my identity into the health of my relationships). I doubt myself less (although I think that anyone with 4 and 6 will experience a fair amount of doubt from time to time), and I worry about the future less. My focus has been on me lately and I am much happier for that. I do not think I am passive enough to be a 469 and I am not a patient person by nature - both typical 9 traits. I can be more judgemental than I care to admit at times too, which I read is typical of 461 (very strong sense of "right" and "wrong" or at least strong morals). I also struggle with anger management and then struggle with feeling guilty about being irritable and impatient, but I don't lash out like an 8 or use my anger as a tool of manipulation.

Thoughts? I am still learning my stuff over here.

 

[Galena]

I could still be wrong about my 1w2 vs 9w1. It's a very close race; and maybe it's just the illusion of 4 speaking, but I don't resemble the other 4X1s. I can't picture us ever having each other's problems.

 

[Lady Lazarus]

It's possible. However I understand how it is not as well.

 

[ChocolateMoose123]

After a lot of reflection and also significant effort trying to dig myself out of depression, I have settled on 461 for me, but I do have a lot of 9 as well.

I feel like when I've been in unhealthy relationships, I slip into more a 649 position. Does this seem plausible? When I first came to TypC, 649 definitely described me well. I had just moved out of my ex's home after a long and painful breakup and was soooo lost. I find as I come out of the clouds that I am more confident in who I am and don't feel the need to rely on others to define that for me (as in investing too much of my identity into the health of my relationships). I doubt myself less (although I think that anyone with 4 and 6 will experience a fair amount of doubt from time to time), and I worry about the future less. My focus has been on me lately and I am much happier for that. I do not think I am passive enough to be a 469 and I am not a patient person by nature - both typical 9 traits. I can be more judgemental than I care to admit at times too, which I read is typical of 461 (very strong sense of "right" and "wrong" or at least strong morals). I also struggle with anger management and then struggle with feeling guilty about being irritable and impatient, but I don't lash out like an 8 or use my anger as a tool of manipulation.

Thoughts? I am still learning my stuff over here.

Well, if you are a core type 4, your integration point is to a 1. Disintegration would bring you to 2 traits ineffectively integrated. (Disintegration). Quite possibly you are seeing a peacemaker 9 traits, when it's really a bit of 2 disintegration adding flavor to your core 4 type?

Maybe some overlap of traits 9 and 2 share?

So when you come out of the depression/break up, you naturally integrate toward a 1. Which if you are core 4 seems to make sense.

Since you do have 6 in your tritype, 6 integrates to 9 but unless you are a core 6, I don't see 9 manifesting its integration in stressful times like a break-up or depression. In fact, you'd just manifest unhealthy aspects of the core 6 type. Which encompasses some 3 traits that don't get fleshed out. (i.e. Disintegration). I also think your 6 is a counterphobic one from what you describe. (6's are complex!!).

I'm not an expert but tri type seems to help give an overall picture. The core type integration/disintegration points remain the same and quite possibly tri-type can seem to show a change, like you noticed, in times of extreme stress. (In this respect, tri-type helped me personally realize my core type!).

Anyway, I think this shows you are a core 4, that's all. But yeah. I could be wrong about all that. Someone who knows enneagram in more depth may clarify my statements. I'm still learning myself.

 

[Hiraeth]

This is my tritype too. The 469 description fits me perfectly. I doubt myself on almost everything, always questioning my motives on why I do anything. I have my own perspectives on things, but most of the time I'm too afraid to voice them in fear of being ridiculed or looked at as too strange. Deep inside I am really sensitive and always was an outsider in most social circles, so risking being ridiculed in any way would make me feel even more inferior than I already feel. I'm trying to be more open now because keeping to one's self for so long I think is unhealthy, but admittedly it is very difficult.

 

[Metis]

I could be a 469. My guess is 468, "the Truth-Teller", but I picked that not because I'm that brave, but because of anger and indignation and hating lies. Otherwise, 8 seems far-fetched, because I'm afraid of people. I'm hardly courageous about telling the truth--I usually swallow it or rant about it privately with only the four walls for an audience. It flatters my self-image to think that I might be brave enough to stand up against deceit. When I do, however, I flinch and cry and feel and act ashamed. I always seem to have lost the argument AND lost face.



And that makes me feel more repressed anger.

So I might be a 469 instead of a 468. There's just not much in the 469 description about anger, so I don't pick that one.

 

[SearchingforPeace]

I could be a 469. My guess is 468, "the Truth-Teller", but I picked that not because I'm that brave, but because of anger and indignation and hating lies. Otherwise, 8 seems far-fetched, because I'm afraid of people. I'm hardly courageous about telling the truth--I usually swallow it or rant about it privately with only the four walls for an audience. It flatters my self-image to think that I might be brave enough to stand up against deceit. When I do, however, I flinch and cry and feel and act ashamed. I always seem to have lost the argument AND lost face.



And that makes me feel more repressed anger.

So I might be a 469 instead of a 468. There's just not much in the 469 description about anger, so I don't pick that one.

The 9 in the 469 is all about unconscious anger, anger that is unconsciously repressed and not acknowledged. Anger is often about boundary violations and 9s don't often even understand they deserve to have boundaries.

Anyone with a 9 in their tritype needs to spend time finding their anger, listening to it, accepting it, and integrating it into their identity.

 

[ThaumaturgicTheorist]

This is my tritype too. The 469 description fits me perfectly. I doubt myself on almost everything, always questioning my motives on why I do anything. I have my own perspectives on things, but most of the time I'm too afraid to voice them in fear of being ridiculed or looked at as too strange. Deep inside I am really sensitive and always was an outsider in most social circles, so risking being ridiculed in any way would make me feel even more inferior than I already feel. I'm trying to be more open now because keeping to one's self for so long I think is unhealthy, but admittedly it is very difficult.

This is so relatable it almost hurts.
I typed as a 946 for a long time, then had to concede that I'm a 3-fixer. "Wanting to be special", I was told, is more an attachment thing. For actual Fours/fixers it's more about authentic identity and expression, there's actually an indifference to whether one is "special" or not. The focus is more about honing in on one's true self, looking for one's realest identity, rather that just being weird to stand out or get attention.