[Traditional Enneagram] What is a man without fear?

[Azure Flame]

What is a man without his motivating fears?

All too often we focus so hard on fighting our fears that... what happens when they suddenly vanish?

The E1 cleans the house constantly and is always trying to gain the respect of others... without this person's core fear, what is he?

The E2 is always there for people to lend a helping hand so that they in turn can feel loved... without this person's core fear, what is he?

The E3 is content with himself and who he is and no longer seeks validation or praise...

The E4 is content with himself

The E5 without the doom and gloom

The E6 no longer seeks support and guidance and no longer has a need to build a support network or meet new people.

The E7 no longer fears a finite existence and achieves stillness.

The E8 no longer puts in effort toward getting strong and powerful as he no longer sees a need for protection.

The E9 no longer feels the need to join others in their pursuits as they are content with their own...

So... then what?

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Can a man be brave when he is afraid? That is the only time a man can be brave.

Maybe the struggle is what we really find fulfilling. Animals without challenges have been shown to get depressed. The same can be said for people.

I frequently think I have vanquished a fear, but then it will come back, like a phoenix.

 

[Mole]

Can a man be brave when he is afraid? That is the only time a man can be brave.

Maybe the struggle is what we really find fulfilling. Animals without challenges have been shown to get depressed. The same can be said for people.

I frequently think I have vanquished a fear, but then it will come back, like a phoenix.

Yes, fear and courage are two sides of the same coin.

And nothing becomes a man more than courage.

 

[skylights]

Can a man be brave when he is afraid? That is the only time a man can be.

I like the phoenix simile.

Also... without fear... man would be dead. I like the idea of fear as a survival mechanism. It puts things in perspective. Why are we afraid of things? Because it helps deter us from killing ourselves in any number of creative ways, and the fear response protects our bodies by re-allocating resources to optimize for fight/flight if we are in danger. If you apply that to the microcosm you can understand fear as an ally instead of an enemy, and try to work with it instead of against it. It reminds me of the meditation strategy of "observing" one's thoughts and feelings as they pass through the self. One may choose to pursue those thoughts but one grows as one learns to cease the compulsion to put their thoughts or feelings in charge. Similarly we can learn to listen to fear as the useful and life-saving tool it can be but rein in its control over our thoughts and behaviors...

The E1 chooses the important battles... The E2 gives selflessly... The E3 performs to excel for the joy of rising to meet a challenge... The E4 cultivates individuality and passionate expression in both themselves and others... The E5 discovers the hidden facets of the world for the joy of learning... The E6 gathers and defends when there is true danger... The E7 pushes boundaries for the joy of novelty... The E8 encourages agency and forward movement for the joy of coming into one's own... The E9 can be at one with the world without shutting it out.

I think the difference is that with control of fear, reality is clarified and brightened... One no longer feels compelled to run but chooses to, one is free to actualize oneself and to define and redefine the self, the distortions of the environment as being a frightening place are replaced with an understanding of the environment being full of opportunities both for joy and harm... One gains the ability to interact with others altruistically but honestly, no longer feeling the compulsion to either aggress or defend... The self is no longer something to hide or assert, just something that is... The world becomes a playground for discovery and joy and an obstacle course for challenge, still bittersweet but vast and full and beautiful.

 

[yeghor]

At peace?

 

[small.wonder]

I don't know, I do agree that fear is natural in the face of danger and that courage is necessary in that. I don't believe the fears listed in the OP are tangible fears though, so those we should progress to somewhat overcome.

It's like comparing:
A) A man being chased by a bear. Is this a real danger that he should fear? Yes.
B) An 8 being afraid of being controlled, or a 7 being afraid of their own inner thoughts, or a 4 being afraid of being contrived. Are those real dangers that they should fear? Mostly no. Their fearful thought process began because it was once real in their life, and they've been on guard ever since.

The courage to overcome B) is different than the courage to face A) or any other potential for physical danger would be. I personally see this distinction because I've found that I have very little A) fear, and more of the B) fear (though it's decreased in recent years).

 

[Rasofy]

A psychopath.

 

[Azure Flame]

I don't know, I do agree that fear is natural in the face of danger and that courage is necessary in that. I don't believe the fears listed in the OP are tangible fears though, so those we should progress to somewhat overcome.

It's like comparing:
A) A man being chased by a bear. Is this a real danger that he should fear? Yes.
B) An 8 being afraid of being controlled, or a 7 being afraid of their own inner thoughts, or a 4 being afraid of being contrived. Are those real dangers that they should fear? Mostly no. Their fearful thought process began because it was once real in their life, and they've been on guard ever since.

The courage to overcome B) is different than the courage to face A) or any other potential for physical danger would be. I personally see this distinction because I've found that I have very little A) fear, and more of the B) fear (though it's decreased in recent years).

Yeah, I'm not talking about primal fear. Obviously if a boulder is coming at us we should righteously shit our pants and dive for cover.

But the desire to look useful is caused by the fear of being worthless. Without that fear, we no longer strive to look useful but to find our true self.

 

[small.wonder]

Yeah, I'm not talking about primal fear. Obviously if a boulder is coming at us we should righteously shit our pants and dive for cover.

But the desire to look useful is caused by the fear of being worthless. Without that fear, we no longer strive to look useful but to find our true self.

Agreed, and I think that's possible. Defeating the fear once and for all though, I'm not sure is possible. I think we can get to a point where we recognize the untruth in our fears and choose to free ourselves with our actions and descisions. I do think I'll always have those same fear tendencies though because I'm human.

 

[Azure Flame]

Agreed, and I think that's possible. Defeating the fear once and for all though, I'm not sure is possible. I think we can get to a point where we recognize the untruth in our fears and choose to free ourselves with our actions and descisions. I do think I'll always have those same fear tendencies though because I'm human.

My materialism is eradicated. I'm still working on my E7 and E8 fears. E8 fear of being harmed is... difficult to understand. Could be the reason why I want to take over the world whenever someone fears me. Idunno.

 

[Eluded_One]

 

[Fluffywolf]

The E9 no longer feels the need to join others in their pursuits as they are content with their own...

So... then what?

Sounds like me.

Don't worry, nothing special happened, the world didn't end or anything like that.

 

[Chad of the OttomanEmpire]

Dammit. I see you've (unsurprisingly) gotten yourself perma-banned. Was going to ask why you have such an issue with "fear", fearless 8.

I guess I can still comment on the OP, since it's still in the public realm, however.

I don't really think much would happen, because a) people would simply expand to fill the void their avoidances thus leading richer lives, and b) the fears you have listed here are technically inaccurate (I won't waste time going through them).

If we did not have our enneagram fears, we would certainly have the bulwark of life to deal with--unemployment, crime, diseases, warfare being some of the larger ones. Needless to say, the host of smaller problems we tolerate every day--traffic, late trains, logistical difficulties, issues with one's boss, flat tires, blah blah blah. Without our "fears", no doubt we'd have richer relationships, but all our problems would not be solved. It would still be pretty interesting here on planet earth.

(If you feel that fear is the mainstay of your existence, I'd examine that as an issue in its own right.)

 

[Hitoshi-San]

A man without fear is one who is willing to push himself over obstacles and truly stay where his heart belongs, while at the same time keeping a relatively level head. A brave man keeps his mind and options open and reminds himself that he will pull through and he will not stop until everything is ok.

 

[Kullervo]

Does not exist.

 

[Lady Lazarus]

A man without fear is a man who can never truly be brave. A man without fear is a man without proper judgement. A man without fear is a man without adrenaline, a man without excitement.

A man without fear is hardly a man.

He more closely resembles a snail's shell in that he is in many ways hallow.

Fear is one of those things which makes us human, fear is the most primal sort of wisdom in that it allowed our ancestors to live on to pass their genes unto us. We know to fear heights, to fear spiders, to fear small spaces because it was once crucial for the survival of our species to fear.

In that scenario of the past a man without fear would be a dead man. Erased.