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  1. #11
    Senior Member Sanjuro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azure Flame View Post
    You didn't read what I wrote apparently.





    Also, the reason 8's go to extremes are due to feelings of inner death and they're trying to feel alive again. As an ESTP 8w7, my inner death comes from a diminishing ability to recieve stimulation as I get older. I am a walking suicide, a corpse that continues to wake up each day for reasons it doesn't understand. And my desire to connect with others is my Sx. Read a book and do your homework before you start coming in here telling me I'm wrong. If you want me to provide sources I can do that for you.
    Come now, no need for defense. We are having an intellectual discussion, and I am sharing my perspective. Surely that's acceptable on a public message board.

    Please do provide sources. I'm curious as to what you've been reading. I've read about 20 books, cover to cover, and I don't see your issues as type specific.

    As to your question. Well I didn't realize it was a question at first. So sorry. No I do not claim to be a 5. Who told you I was?

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sanjuro View Post
    Come now, no need for defense. We are having an intellectual discussion, and I am sharing my perspective. Surely that's acceptable on a public message board.

    Please do provide sources. I'm curious as to what you've been reading. I've read about 20 books, cover to cover, and I don't see your issues as type specific.
    I'm not being defensive I'm rebutting you in the tone I take with pretty much everyone I meet on the forum. If its too direct for you then cry about it cuz its not going anywhere soon.

    Helen Palmer Audio Book
    https://dl.dropbox.com/u/5368444/Pal...almers%208.mp3

    Naranjo
    http://socionix.com/misc/books/12177...d-Neurosis.pdf

    Ennea-type VIII, on the other hand, is essentially lazy-minded (type IX), though its
    characteristic odd inwardness-avoidance is covered up with the typical intensity with which the
    individual seeks to make himself feel alive, escaping the sense of deadness attendant upon his
    or her lack of interiority.
    This article
    http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...tual-Stackings

    the sexual instinct is often referred to as the "one to one" instinct in other areas of enneagram. Also beatrice chestnut is a good one.

    So are you a 5, 6 or an 8? or none of the above?

  3. #13
    Senior Member Sanjuro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azure Flame View Post
    I'm not being defensive I'm rebutting you in the tone I take with pretty much everyone I meet on the forum. If its too direct for you then cry about it.

    Helen Palmer Audio Book
    https://dl.dropbox.com/u/5368444/Pal...almers%208.mp3

    Naranjo
    http://socionix.com/misc/books/12177...d-Neurosis.pdf

    This article
    Socionics - the16types.info - Instinctual Stackings

    the sexual instinct is often referred to as the "one to one" instinct in other areas of enneagram. Also beatrice chestnut is a good one.

    So are you a 5 or an 8?
    LOL DJ. If writing "come now" is crying, you really must live in hell. My immense sympathies, as noted I live there myself.

    Yes, I've read Chestnut. I find her words on 8s to be lacking and show a lack of understanding on her part. She parrots Naranjo without much elaboration.

    I've read two of Palmer's books which I find very insightful. She points to stimulation as a bi-product of inner deadening, but not the reason for pain itself. Indeed, as naranjo and maitri point out, it's the sense of having been wronged that is the source of suffering.

    The dominant instinct is your point of insecurity and neurosis; the link you provided initially led me to type as sp/sx. I had to think about that one.

    Have you read Jerome Wagner's stuff? I find his ideas on self image to be most informative.
    Last edited by Sanjuro; 07-08-2014 at 11:55 PM. Reason: maiTri

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sanjuro View Post
    LOL DJ. If writing "come now" is crying, you really must live in hell.
    Who do you think i am, insanity wolf? stop talking to me like I'm shouting at you. Jesus christ. This is me being normal, but the more you presumptuously talk to me like I'm constantly screaming, the more irritated I get and my tact disappears as I succumb to your self fulfilling prophecy. So knock it off.

    Yes, I've read Chestnut. I find her words on 8s to be lacking and show a lack of understanding on her part. She parrots Naranjo without much elaboration.

    I've read two of Palmer's books which I find very insightful. She points to stimulation as a bi-product of inner deadening, but not the reason for pain itself. Indeed, as naranjo and mairi point out, it's the sense of having been wronged that is the source of suffering.

    The dominant instinct is your point of insecurity and neurosis; the link you provided initially led me to type as sp/sx. I had to think about that one.

    Have you read Jerome Wagner's stuff? I find his ideas on self image to be most informative.
    Wait, so, because you mistyped that means this link is wrong? No I haven't read jerome wagner's stuff. Or if I did I didn't know it was wagner. I read a lot of stuff.

  5. #15
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    and when the hell did I say "come now" was you crying? Did you say that to yourself really loudly in your mind or something? because I definitely never said that. I feel like I'm conversing with a schizo. This "intellectual conversation" is about to cease if you keep talking to me like this.

    If you want to be blocked, please continue speaking to me with whatever unseedable judgements are floating in your mind.

  6. #16
    Senior Member Sanjuro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azure Flame View Post
    Who do you think i am, insanity wolf? stop talking to me like I'm shouting at you. Jesus christ. This is me being normal, but the more you presumptuously talk to me like I'm constantly screaming, the more irritated I get and my tact disappears. So knock it off.



    Wait, so, because you mistyped that means this link is wrong? No I haven't read jerome wagner's stuff. Or if I did I didn't know it was wagner. I read a lot of stuff.
    Hey, no. I'll write to you in my own style. If you can't handle that, too bad. If you think that's "screaming" or "insanity"...whatever. That's fair, right? You interact your way, I interact mine.

    No I did not say the link was wrong. I stated my knowledge of its contents and my opinion on it. It is certainly not inaccurate but it did lead me to some misconceptions.

  7. #17
    Senior Member Sanjuro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azure Flame View Post
    and when the hell did I say "come now" was you crying? Did you say that to yourself really loudly in your mind or something? because I definitely never said that. I feel like I'm conversing with a schizo. This "intellectual conversation" is about to cease if you keep talking to me like this.
    Haha, what?

  8. #18
    Senior Member Sanjuro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azure Flame View Post
    If you want to be blocked, please continue speaking to me with whatever unseedable judgements are floating in your mind.
    Oh DJ, I'm sorry it's come to this. I actually rather like you and your creative ideas. I'm not judging you in the slightest. I know nothing about you beyond this message board. I wouldn't claim to.

  9. #19
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    So I'll ask you again since you haven't answered my question,

    Are you an 8?

  10. #20
    Member ginniebean's Avatar
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    I always get the impression that 8's can't self soothe by themselves or perhaps that's something that comes later in life. With no means of self soothing that may trigger a fear of dependency which can only be met in an intimate relationship. I'm surrounded by 8's in my immediate family and among my friends and I find that when they are raging in their hell there's nothing that can soothe them or diminish whatever internal pain they're experiencing. In my experience after the rage comes a sulky period where if you are careful there are entry points for caring and affection to penetrate which is what the 8 seems to want and need.

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