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  1. #1
    Member LadyRain's Avatar
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    Default Chemical Imbalances effecting Enneagrams

    It stands to reason that chemical imbalances and mental/emotional health issues effect the results of Enneagram types. My question is to what degree. There are things written on unhealthy types verses healthy types but what if the enneagram "personality" of an individual can jump around according to mood/emotion state and mental/chemical interactions. I am having the worst time with this. I have a chemical imbalance that effects mood and anxiety (looks like a 6) but, it is not at all who I am; I'm sure of it. I am highly intellectual and have my feet firmly planted in what I "know" to be true (very much a 5) but was never this until after having to hold my own with my current husband, as a means to not be overtaken by his aggressive emotionally-fueled logic and reason stances he wields like a weapon in order to maintain control. I'm a bit of a 4 as well but, more from the emotional aspect of things. It's almost as if I arrange my environment to support the emotions I am trying to encourage, though the artist in me got buried by my mother who opposes such "fruitless endeavors". At one point I would have made myself a 9 but, I have learned that controversy can be a catalyst for growth. Help. I think I am so lost that I'll never find a starting point in sorting through it. Oh, One big thing about me. I cannot express what is going on in me through verbal means but, I can through written. I am good at painting and emotional and experiential landscape (and writing in general) allowing for an experience of the emotional, visual, and conceptual worlds I find myself swimming through (introvert). Anyway, again, help

  2. #2
    I could do things Hard's Avatar
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    It sounds like you're wanting to quantify something that can't be quantified. MBTI is not really well regarded in true "personality" metrics, and I honestly just treat it as fun for the most part. That said, it definitely stands to reason that a chemical imbalance in the brain will skew type. I thought I was INFJ, and 5w4 years back for quite a while (which in hindsight really is nonsense). Why? Due to mental issues on my end. I was able to see through most of it as I got older though due to be rather self aware. I saw that who I thought I was, was not who I truly was. Mostly what I focused on was dysfunctional me, because that's what I was and saw the vast majority of the time. Recently I learned the exact reason is/was bipolar disorder type II.

    In my opinion, ones true type is how they are when they are in a neutral/positive state. Mental illnesses (legitimate ones) can and do change personality around.

    I don't really have any word of advice other than try and find the neutral states that lead to a clear presence and accurate reflection of who you are. This isn't something that happens quickly, you learn this with time, patience, careful reflection, and feedback from others.

    Also, keep in mind, at the end of the day, type is just a label. .
    MBTI: ExxJ tetramer
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  4. #4
    I could do things Hard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alea_iacta_est View Post
    Granted I haven't looked much, but I don't see any citation to the publication that evaluated these levels. If it exists I'd very much like to see it. Either way, the fact that they don't have an outlink on this page makes the whole thing highly questionable to me. Which is why I don't regard it.
    MBTI: ExxJ tetramer
    Functions: Fe > Te > Ni > Se > Si > Ti > Fi > Ne
    Enneagram: 1w2 - 3w4 - 6w5 (The Taskmaster) | sp/so
    Socionics: β-E dimer | -
    Big 5: slOaI
    Temperament: Choleric/Melancholic
    Alignment: Lawful Neutral
    External Perception: Nohari and Johari


  5. #5
    Senior Member Alea_iacta_est's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hard View Post
    Granted I haven't looked much, but I don't see any citation to the publication that evaluated these levels. If it exists I'd very much like to see it. Either way, the fact that they don't have an outlink on this page makes the whole thing highly questionable to me. Which is why I don't regard it.
    Yeah, I'm not trustworthy of it either. I brought it up to signify that the people at the Enneagram Institute have hypothesized this. There isn't any empirical study listed, and it stated many times that it is based off of a theoretical model that has yet to be tested properly. It's an interesting thought, however, but would lead to some questionable type dynamics with the different fluctuations of the chemicals in the brain.

  6. #6
    I could do things Hard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alea_iacta_est View Post
    Yeah, I'm not trustworthy of it either. I brought it up to signify that the people at the Enneagram Institute have hypothesized this. There isn't any empirical study listed, and it stated many times that it is based off of a theoretical model that has yet to be tested properly. It's an interesting thought, however, but would lead to some questionable type dynamics with the different fluctuations of the chemicals in the brain.
    Well at least they are kinda honest about it then. I really would like to see it tested, as it could potentially validate or invalidate the theories outright, which would be ooooooooh so satisfying to see (regardless of the outcome).
    MBTI: ExxJ tetramer
    Functions: Fe > Te > Ni > Se > Si > Ti > Fi > Ne
    Enneagram: 1w2 - 3w4 - 6w5 (The Taskmaster) | sp/so
    Socionics: β-E dimer | -
    Big 5: slOaI
    Temperament: Choleric/Melancholic
    Alignment: Lawful Neutral
    External Perception: Nohari and Johari


  7. #7
    Member LadyRain's Avatar
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    So there are no real theories published out there talking about the variables then. Bummer.

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    Degree of debilitation can only be gauged subjectively, so whether and how much is predicted by enneagram would likely have to be determined on a case by case basis. Do you know the nature of your illness? If it's one with a notable trajectory (e.g. Bipolar Disorder), then I'd say to exclude all incidents involing those states. In fact, psychology calls them "sates" for a reason--they are normally huge deviances from the person's baseline. If, however, you note a persistently elevated sensitivity, outside of chemically-driven episodes, then you could consider that a "trait," which can be used to evaluate type.

  9. #9
    Member LadyRain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elocute View Post
    Degree of debilitation can only be gauged subjectively, so whether and how much is predicted by enneagram would likely have to be determined on a case by case basis. Do you know the nature of your illness? If it's one with a notable trajectory (e.g. Bipolar Disorder), then I'd say to exclude all incidents involing those states. In fact, psychology calls them "sates" for a reason--they are normally huge deviances from the person's baseline. If, however, you note a persistently elevated sensitivity, outside of chemically-driven episodes, then you could consider that a "trait," which can be used to evaluate type.
    That's pretty helpful (and common sense comfy too).

  10. #10
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LadyRain View Post
    It stands to reason that chemical imbalances and mental/emotional health issues effect the results of Enneagram types. My question is to what degree. There are things written on unhealthy types verses healthy types but what if the enneagram "personality" of an individual can jump around according to mood/emotion state and mental/chemical interactions. I am having the worst time with this. I have a chemical imbalance that effects mood and anxiety (looks like a 6) but, it is not at all who I am; I'm sure of it. I am highly intellectual and have my feet firmly planted in what I "know" to be true (very much a 5) but was never this until after having to hold my own with my current husband, as a means to not be overtaken by his aggressive emotionally-fueled logic and reason stances he wields like a weapon in order to maintain control. I'm a bit of a 4 as well but, more from the emotional aspect of things. It's almost as if I arrange my environment to support the emotions I am trying to encourage, though the artist in me got buried by my mother who opposes such "fruitless endeavors". At one point I would have made myself a 9 but, I have learned that controversy can be a catalyst for growth. Help. I think I am so lost that I'll never find a starting point in sorting through it. Oh, One big thing about me. I cannot express what is going on in me through verbal means but, I can through written. I am good at painting and emotional and experiential landscape (and writing in general) allowing for an experience of the emotional, visual, and conceptual worlds I find myself swimming through (introvert). Anyway, again, help
    Why do you call your emotions a chemical imbalance ? Do you think life's more fun as a robot ?
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

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