[Traditional Enneagram] Phobic enneagram 6 ignorance

[The Great One]

So I am a phobic/counterphobic 6. I am most likely a sp/sx 6w7. I tend to be a bit more phobic then counter-phobic though. However, the problem with me is that I constantly question myself. I constantly believe that I will mess things up, if I haven't done them before and this is a major problem for me. It is because of this, people often perceive me as a total dumb ass on school projects and at work. Also, even with things that I clearly am competent in, I also tend to still question myself, and don't tend to show much confidence in my abilities. It is because of this, that people often view me as a dumb ass who will clearly fuck things up, and someone whom is an ignoramus. Do the other phobic 6w7's have this problem?
[MENTION=18694]Magic Qwan[/MENTION]
[MENTION=10496]skylights[/MENTION]
[MENTION=18664]Stansmith[/MENTION]

You folks might like this thread.

 

[Stansmith]

I feel you on some things, although I don't think people view me as dumb or a fuck up. I'm good at maintaining my composure externally even when I'm overwhelmed, and I can even take the initiative on some of the things you've mentioned. Particularly school projects where it seems like the person I'm paired with doesn't want to be there.

 

[prplchknz]

Not sure on my enneatype but I relate to people viewing me as a dumbass and believing I will mess things up.

 

[Avocado]

So I am a phobic/counterphobic 6. I am most likely a sp/sx 6w7. I tend to be a bit more phobic then counter-phobic though. However, the problem with me is that I constantly question myself. I constantly believe that I will mess things up, if I haven't done them before and this is a major problem for me. It is because of this, people often perceive me as a total dumb ass on school projects and at work. Also, even with things that I clearly am competent in, I also tend to still question myself, and don't tend to show much confidence in my abilities. It is because of this, that people often view me as a dumb ass who will clearly fuck things up, and someone whom is an ignoramus. Do the other phobic 6w7's have this problem?

[MENTION=18694]Magic Qwan[/MENTION]
[MENTION=10496]skylights[/MENTION]
[MENTION=18664]Stansmith[/MENTION]

You folks might like this thread.

Yes. People go out of their way to call me incompetent. It is all because of the fear I will mess up.

Part of it seems to be poor sensing, too. I am a total klutz.

 

[skylights]

So, this is a bit of a complex one for me. In one way, yes; in another, no.

My dad is an e5w6 539 INTP. I grew up with him quizzing my knowledge and testing my competence, and I took a lot of pride in succeeding. For what I assume is a multitude of reasons including both genetics and childhood environment, I've always been pretty competency-focused. Few things make me angrier than people assuming I can't do something, and I like to prove that I can. I spend probably too much time being concerned about being and being perceived as competent, and I take pride in people coming to me for knowledge and/or assistance.

However... You can kind of see how this attitude is the reactive backswing to fear of being incompetent. I have an e9 friend at work, also ENFP, who could care less about a lot of the things I really put competency focus on. I've been there less time than she has but I can unload trucks myself... order... schedule... basically I can and have done every function in our department and it makes me feel secure that I can. Whereas I'm sure she could if she wanted, but she doesn't want to because she finds most of those things unpleasant. It doesn't seem to matter to her to not have the skill under her belt and it doesn't seem to bother her to have to ask for help, both of which would be frustrating and somewhat embarrassing to me.

If anything, I probably come across as a bit of an ass in terms of competence, though I'm not quite on NT level

So my reaction to this particular subject is more CP... But it's a reaction for sure, and I feel you about the core concern. I think people tend to see me as knowledgeable and competent because I spend a lot of time and energy focusing on and cultivating those skills, but I do tend to avoid and/or be super anxious about e3-like performance (and I share the sensotardedness) and therefore am not the one people seek out as a figurehead, which is occasionally disappointing but overall probably more comfortable for me.

 

[The Great One]

I feel you on some things, although I don't think people view me as dumb or a fuck up. I'm good at maintaining my composure externally even when I'm overwhelmed, and I can even take the initiative on some of the things you've mentioned. Particularly school projects where it seems like the person I'm paired with doesn't want to be there.

I have PTSD, so to even be able to keep my job in the first place is a miracle. 9/10 of the mental health practitioners that I have talked to have told me that I am literally so fucked up that I need to be on disability until I can recover mentally. However, to get disability is just about impossible: You have to create a list of doctors/psychiatrists/psychologists/counselors that you have seen in the past, and they have to write a letter saying that you are as fucked up as you say that you are. Then, you have to officially apply for disability, and on a mental health issue you get rejected 99.9% of the time on your first time applying. So once you have been rejected, they ask that you go and see a disability lawyer to go and fight for your rights. The lawyer will then tell you that you need to have someone that you are currently seeing RIGHT NOW in this point in time to say that you are mentally fucked up, and if you don't your case pretty much has no chance. On top of that, you have to somehow not work or go to school for an entire year because it takes about a year to a year and a half to actually prove that you have the problems that you say you do, and to actually get the disability money to kick in. So in other words, you are getting on the disability in order to be able to receive mental health care and money to survive on while you are mentally fucked up, but you already have to have money to survive on and mental health care in order get the disability. It's the most fucked up process in the history of man kind.

Anyway, I often look like I'm dumb ass at work because I will know how to do something and will know it so well that I could teach people how to do it. However, what I will do is to then question myself when people make fun of me, and then look like a fool who doesn't know what the hell I'm doing. I hate this SO MUCH! Oh, and it's all anxiety based as well, because when I take Xanax, this doesn't happen.

Yes. People go out of their way to call me incompetent. It is all because of the fear I will mess up.

Part of it seems to be poor sensing, too. I am a total klutz.

Yeah, this happens to me too. People also enjoy getting a good laugh out of my anxiety. It really angers me to no end. I am no longer a klutz though because I went and saw a hypnotist and he taught me these present-moment exercises that taught me how to stay in the moment. This also REALLY helped me to develop my sensing function.

So, this is a bit of a complex one for me. In one way, yes; in another, no.

My dad is an e5w6 539 INTP. I grew up with him quizzing my knowledge and testing my competence, and I took a lot of pride in succeeding. For what I assume is a multitude of reasons including both genetics and childhood environment, I've always been pretty competency-focused. Few things make me angrier than people assuming I can't do something, and I like to prove that I can. I spend probably too much time being concerned about being and being perceived as competent, and I take pride in people coming to me for knowledge and/or assistance.

However... You can kind of see how this attitude is the reactive backswing to fear of being incompetent. I have an e9 friend at work, also ENFP, who could care less about a lot of the things I really put competency focus on. I've been there less time than she has but I can unload trucks myself... order... schedule... basically I can and have done every function in our department and it makes me feel secure that I can. Whereas I'm sure she could if she wanted, but she doesn't want to because she finds most of those things unpleasant. It doesn't seem to matter to her to not have the skill under her belt and it doesn't seem to bother her to have to ask for help, both of which would be frustrating and somewhat embarrassing to me.

If anything, I probably come across as a bit of an ass in terms of competence, though I'm not quite on NT level

So my reaction to this particular subject is more CP... But it's a reaction for sure, and I feel you about the core concern. I think people tend to see me as knowledgeable and competent because I spend a lot of time and energy focusing on and cultivating those skills, but I do tend to avoid and/or be super anxious about e3-like performance (and I share the sensotardedness) and therefore am not the one people seek out as a figurehead, which is occasionally disappointing but overall probably more comfortable for me.

Well I sort of relate to this. I feel like if I do a task over and over again, with people watching me over and over again, I then gain confidence in my abilities and don't question myself any longer.

 

[Evo]

[MENTION=15607]The Great One[/MENTION] yea, I am probably a mix of phobic and counterphobic. With people I do not know very well, I am phobic.

So in the case of a school project, I would be phobic. Which would lead me to be extremely quite. I hate group settings anyways. But I also add to them thinking I can be flighty(or dumb or whatever...), cause I will make humour out of my own faults. I have stopped doing this though.

You could just try telling yourself "I trust myself."

I have recently started to do this...with everything. And I'm telling you...it's like the best thing I've ever done for myself. I immediately feel better. It doesn't fix the problem, but it is a check for my anxiety. It almost always goes away immediately after I tell myself this. The problem becomes more objective and managable for me as well.

 

[Avocado]

I have PTSD, so to even be able to keep my job in the first place is a miracle. 9/10 of the mental health practitioners that I have talked to have told me that I am literally so fucked up that I need to be on disability until I can recover mentally. However, to get disability is just about impossible: You have to create a list of doctors/psychiatrists/psychologists/counselors that you have seen in the past, and they have to write a letter saying that you are as fucked up as you say that you are. Then, you have to officially apply for disability, and on a mental health issue you get rejected 99.9% of the time on your first time applying. So once you have been rejected, they ask that you go and see a disability lawyer to go and fight for your rights. The lawyer will then tell you that you need to have someone that you are currently seeing RIGHT NOW in this point in time to say that you are mentally fucked up, and if you don't your case pretty much has no chance. On top of that, you have to somehow not work or go to school for an entire year because it takes about a year to a year and a half to actually prove that you have the problems that you say you do, and to actually get the disability money to kick in. So in other words, you are getting on the disability in order to be able to receive mental health care and money to survive on while you are mentally fucked up, but you already have to have money to survive on and mental health care in order get the disability. It's the most fucked up process in the history of man kind.

Anyway, I often look like I'm dumb ass at work because I will know how to do something and will know it so well that I could teach people how to do it. However, what I will do is to then question myself when people make fun of me, and then look like a fool who doesn't know what the hell I'm doing. I hate this SO MUCH! Oh, and it's all anxiety based as well, because when I take Xanax, this doesn't happen.



Yeah, this happens to me too. People also enjoy getting a good laugh out of my anxiety. It really angers me to no end. I am no longer a klutz though because I went and saw a hypnotist and he taught me these present-moment exercises that taught me how to stay in the moment. This also REALLY helped me to develop my sensing function.



Well I sort of relate to this. I feel like if I do a task over and over again, with people watching me over and over again, I then gain confidence in my abilities and don't question myself any longer.

I recently got my survivor benefits from my late father extended because of being s7ill emotionally disturbed and having an autism diagnosis. I might try a hypnotist, but hypnosis is not something I'm sure can be done to me...

 

[Evo]

Few things make me angrier than people assuming I can't do something, and I like to prove that I can. I spend probably too much time being concerned about being and being perceived as competent, and I take pride in people coming to me for knowledge and/or assistance.

However... You can kind of see how this attitude is the reactive backswing to fear of being incompetent. I have an e9 friend at work, also ENFP, who could care less about a lot of the things I really put competency focus on. I've been there less time than she has but I can unload trucks myself... order... schedule... basically I can and have done every function in our department and it makes me feel secure that I can. Whereas I'm sure she could if she wanted, but she doesn't want to because she finds most of those things unpleasant. It doesn't seem to matter to her to not have the skill under her belt and it doesn't seem to bother her to have to ask for help, both of which would be frustrating and somewhat embarrassing to me.

If anything, I probably come across as a bit of an ass in terms of competence, though I'm not quite on NT level

So my reaction to this particular subject is more CP... But it's a reaction for sure, and I feel you about the core concern. I think people tend to see me as knowledgeable and competent because I spend a lot of time and energy focusing on and cultivating those skills, but I do tend to avoid and/or be super anxious about e3-like performance (and I share the sensotardedness) and therefore am not the one people seek out as a figurehead, which is occasionally disappointing but overall probably more comfortable for me.

I was in a rush before (as always) and didn't get to read your response til now. But God I seriously relate to this. I really like to be able to learn every single in n out of an organization. I still haven't worked in the maintenance department where I work, and I want to do it cause I know I will feel more secure.

 

[The Great One]

I recently got my survivor benefits from my late father extended because of being s7ill emotionally disturbed and having an autism diagnosis. I might try a hypnotist, but hypnosis is not something I'm sure can be done to me...

1) I doubt your a 7. I think you're a 6w7 sp/so.

2)Next, most hypnotists don't hypnotize you in the classic way (i.e. the swinging pendulum). Instead it's more like they teach you a series of meditations, mind direction techniques, and present moment exercises. I will say they my hypnotist helped me way more then any psychologist or psychiatrist ever did.

 

[The Great One]

[MENTION=15607]The Great One[/MENTION] yea, I am probably a mix of phobic and counterphobic. With people I do not know very well, I am phobic.

So in the case of a school project, I would be phobic. Which would lead me to be extremely quite. I hate group settings anyways. But I also add to them thinking I can be flighty(or dumb or whatever...), cause I will make humour out of my own faults. I have stopped doing this though.

You could just try telling yourself "I trust myself."

I have recently started to do this...with everything. And I'm telling you...it's like the best thing I've ever done for myself. I immediately feel better. It doesn't fix the problem, but it is a check for my anxiety. It almost always goes away immediately after I tell myself this. The problem becomes more objective and managable for me as well.

Well my coping mechanism is similar: What I do is to just do something so many times, that I just go gut-center with it and just do it on pure memorized reactions and reflexes. That way it becomes so ingrained in me, that I don't think about it. Thinking about it, is what really screws me over.

 

[Avocado]

1) I doubt your a 7. I think you're a 6w7 sp/so.

2)Next, most hypnotists don't hypnotize you in the classic way (i.e. the swinging pendulum). Instead it's more like they teach you a series of meditations, mind direction techniques, and present moment exercises. I will say they my hypnotist helped me way more then any psychologist or psychiatrist ever did.

Could you share?

 

[The Great One]

Could you share?

What do you want me to elaborate on?: the present moment exercises or why I think you are that type?

 

[Avocado]

What do you want me to elaborate on?: the present moment exercises or why I think you are that type?

I need those excersizes STAT!

Also' why 6w7 Sp/So?

 

[Evo]

Well my coping mechanism is similar: What I do is to just do something so many times, that I just go gut-center with it and just do it on pure memorized reactions and reflexes. That way it becomes so ingrained in me, that I don't think about it. Thinking about it, is what really screws me over.

Yea. I have to do that too. I am good at new things cause I like change, and I pick up quickly. But the downside, is that I need so much fucking context cause I'm a perfectionist, and don't want to get it wrong. And that's when I ask questions about the little details, which most people (ALL SENSORS, PRACTICALLY) view as "common sense." (And for the record, I don't believe in common sense...there is no such thing...it's bullshit, cause it's all relative.)

So when ppl think you're "a dumbass" as you put it...is it them thinking it's lack of common sense? Cause for me as an intuitive...I start from scratch when learning something new. I don't like to compare present context with prior context until I know I fully understand the whole overall picture of what I'm learning. Which like I said...takes quite a bit of context. lol

 

[skylights]

[MENTION=14015]Urarienev[/MENTION] ahahah my little brother (ISTP) and boyfriend (ISFJ) are all about some "common sense" too... IMO it's an annoying blend of S-Ti... Clearly observing what's present plus perceiving that everything works on logical background mechanisms...

I also agree about just letting it go and letting your gut take over. That definitely yields the best results every time. Which maybe is why we say that 6 integrates to 9....

Well I sort of relate to this. I feel like if I do a task over and over again, with people watching me over and over again, I then gain confidence in my abilities and don't question myself any longer.

Yes, I know what you mean. Also, for me, I often try to get private practice time in before being watched or tested. People ask me how I know what to do - the truth is the amount of time I spend privately reading and learning and practicing.

On a personal note, I want to go into some branch of medicine, and getting it right when I eventually practice whatever discipline I go into is very concerning to me. It's one thing to screw up in your own life but treating others is a consideration of a much higher magnitude. It scares me a bit, but I try to remind myself that all practitioners face that challenge and I am going to try to trust myself to choose the specialty that I am best at so that I can provide the best level of care. I think there are a lot of reasons a 6 would make a good practitioner so I try to remind myself of those...

Relatedly - I am so sorry disability is so hard to get. I do know why, though - there are SO many people who try to sweet talk their way into false coverage. My dad (a psychiatrist) comes home with stories about fakers trying to wheedle their way into disability all the time. It's really sad for the people who actually need disability that it requires such a stringent process, but otherwise our government funds would be even more run dry (ie we'd owe China even more) by people who just don't want to work...

 

[Elfboy]

[MENTION=14015]Urarienev[/MENTION] ahahah my little brother (ISTP) and boyfriend (ISFJ) are all about some "common sense" too... IMO it's an annoying blend of S-Ti... Clearly observing what's present plus perceiving that everything works on logical background mechanisms...
I also agree about just letting it go and letting your gut take over. That definitely yields the best results every time. Which maybe is why we say that 6 integrates to 9....

well, it's better than N+Ti (good grief do they ever make me want to shoot someone with all their pedantic babble and over complication of questions which are actually quite easy to answer)

 

[Hazelstein]

Yes I experience the same things. I also used to have PTSD like symptoms, and social anxiety. People think it's hilarious and I hate that. I don't see what's funny about me shaking with anxiety.

 

[Evo]

[MENTION=14015]Urarienev[/MENTION] ahahah my little brother (ISTP) and boyfriend (ISFJ) are all about some "common sense" too... IMO it's an annoying blend of S-Ti... Clearly observing what's present plus perceiving that everything works on logical background mechanisms...

I also agree about just letting it go and letting your gut take over. That definitely yields the best results every time. Which maybe is why we say that 6 integrates to 9....

Yea, I get the "common sense" vibe more from Se users, like even from ISFP's. The common sense they're are talking about is just past experience though....which is not something I care to remember as much as they do. I don't actually get it from ISFJ's cause the ones I've met need lots of context too. Usually more than me, it's to the point that I can't tell if they actually are grasping what I'm teaching to them or not lol. But I do see it with Ti too. I think it's a more silent judgment with them though.

And integration to 9, does make sense for that. (I have a hard time integrating to 9 in general though )

 

[King sns]

So I am a phobic/counterphobic 6. I am most likely a sp/sx 6w7. I tend to be a bit more phobic then counter-phobic though. However, the problem with me is that I constantly question myself. I constantly believe that I will mess things up, if I haven't done them before and this is a major problem for me. It is because of this, people often perceive me as a total dumb ass on school projects and at work. Also, even with things that I clearly am competent in, I also tend to still question myself, and don't tend to show much confidence in my abilities. It is because of this, that people often view me as a dumb ass who will clearly fuck things up, and someone whom is an ignoramus. Do the other phobic 6w7's have this problem?

[MENTION=18694]Magic Qwan[/MENTION]
[MENTION=10496]skylights[/MENTION]
[MENTION=18664]Stansmith[/MENTION]

You folks might like this thread.

yea, I'm the same setup, phobic 6w7 sp/sx and most definitely have the same issues. I don't think people think I'm dumb about stuff but the dualities really destroy my confidence sometimes.. it's really hard to make decisions/ stand for one thing... Even sometimes if the task or the facts or whatever it is is very straight forward you start to question a lot of stuff.... It makes you look like "you don't know what you're doing" to some of the really bold types... 8's and such. pfft. whatever, 8's.. Thats what I say... I've convinced myself that this is a really good way to go about things... There's fewer assumptions.... I mean if everyone were like this then there would be a problem.... But, for the most part, this thinking style is important in many areas!

I do notice I get a lot of people asking me questions in work and school settings, moreso than they would ask someone else. I think people like the way I weight all these things back and forth in my head/ (and out loud!!) .. Meanwhile I feel like I clearly don't know anything or what i'm talking about. or maybe they just ask because I'm being nice... I don't know.