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  1. #41
    I want my account deleted
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    1. I myself strongly encourage anyone seeking to understand this specific thread to place it in the larger context of yeghor's overall participation on this site. To my eyes, there's a rather clear pattern with multiple variations - all centering around the same basic goal: for yeghor to to "confirm" his various self-referential thought and belief structures by any means necessary and using various strategies to reject external realities that don't fit. My own time/energy/interest is limited, so I'll leave it to others to investigate and better articulate this bigger picture, if anyone is so inclined.

    eta2:

    Wow. You folks are just freaking addicted to negative drama, aren't you?

    I've now deleted the part of my comment that kicked off the ongoing drama below, since apparently striking it out as I did last night (trying to be polite and leave what people responded to) didn't make a dent.

    What a cesspool of dysfunction this site is.

    ----------------------------------------
    retaining this part:

    I'm not sure if looking at it from that perspective would increase collective clarity or not. If not, please ignore this part as not useful.

    ------------------------------------------

    and this comment from the edit last night:

    eta1: *shrug* I guess the whole "here's one possible angle of vision on the situation, please ignore if it doesn't assist collective clarity" approach just isn't how things roll on this site and there simply has to be a discussion. Hopefully the three comments below are sufficient to put the crossed-out perspective aside as not useful for clarity and the discussion can move on. Good luck, everyone.
    Last edited by Werebudgie; 05-15-2014 at 02:05 AM. Reason: where to even begin to explain the reason for editing...?

  2. #42
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Werebudgie View Post
    1. I myself strongly encourage anyone seeking to understand this specific thread to place it in the larger context of yeghor's overall participation on this site. To my eyes, there's a rather clear pattern with multiple variations - all centering around the same basic goal: for yeghor to to "confirm" his various self-referential thought and belief structures by any means necessary and using various strategies to reject external realities that don't fit. My own time/energy/interest is limited, so I'll leave it to others to investigate and better articulate this bigger picture, if anyone is so inclined.

    2. I will also say this: since this site tends to push for the framing of almost everything in terms of type (whether or not type is what's actually going on): Given some arguments made some time ago by @Alea_iacta_est about yeghor's possible MBTI type (I was skeptical), plus the results of the enneagram test I referred to earler in the thread:

    I actually wouldn't be surprised if what we're seeing with yeghor is a very unhealthy enneagram 5 using INFP cognitive processes - specifically, Te-inf aggressively serving Fi-dom beliefs/values - in service to the e5-sourced unwellness. I mention this because I wonder what the situation looks like if we consider that the apparent "thought structure" is not primarily as sourced in Ti, but rather sourced in a Fi-dom internal structure of core beliefs/values - with inferior Te providing the T flavor in service to those beliefs/values, and very unhealthy enneagram 5 dynamics driving the whole mess.

    I'm not sure if looking at it from that perspective would increase collective clarity or not. If not, please ignore this part as not useful.
    No. That's not how Fi/Te works when unhealthy or otherwise. As I noted in my rep, this fits a particular INFJ pattern I've been pointing out for some time, rather perfectly. This pattern often includes inferior Se aggressiveness (asserting something as unquestionably true, as if tangible & "right in front of your eyes" & accusing others of blindness if they can't "see' it; but this is NOT tangible Se data), but with poor Se perception (no sense of CONTEXT outside of internal Ni vision & not involving actual tangible data), plus using common values (ie. how do we rate these types?) to assert personal value according to what is socially ideal (just enough Fe to boost the ego; unaware of shadow Fi), and as noted, rather shaky & hilariously bad Ti theorizing.

    Funny how people always want to peg unhealthy INFJs as INFP though
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  3. #43
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    I agree with @OrangeAppled on this. I don't think @yeghor is an INFP by any stretch. He doesn't spit out fact after unrelated fact in an incoherent and angry fashion while also thinking and stridently asserting that everyone who disagrees with him is a horrible, horrible person. He's fixated on his own idiosyncratic perceptions rather than his judgements.

  4. #44
    I could do things Hard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by senza tema View Post
    I agree with @OrangeAppled on this. I don't think @yeghor is an INFP by any stretch. He doesn't spit out fact after unrelated fact in an incoherent and angry fashion while also thinking and stridently asserting that everyone who disagrees with him is a horrible, horrible person. He's fixated on his own idiosyncratic perceptions rather than his judgements.
    Same. I generally don't question peoples types (as I largely don't care much anyway) unless it's very blatantly off. For the most part I'll just take their word for it unless they've shown to have very poor self-awareness. Even then, he fits into INFJ very well from what I have observed so far. I am not convinced on enneagram, and I could see arguments for several of them, but again I just take peoples word for it for the most part.
    MBTI: ExxJ tetramer
    Functions: Fe > Te > Ni > Se > Si > Ti > Fi > Ne
    Enneagram: 1w2 - 3w4 - 6w5 (The Taskmaster) | sp/so
    Socionics: β-E dimer | -
    Big 5: slOaI
    Temperament: Choleric/Melancholic
    Alignment: Lawful Neutral
    External Perception: Nohari and Johari


  5. #45
    Senior Member yeghor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    This pattern often includes inferior Se aggressiveness (asserting something as unquestionably true, as if tangible & "right in front of your eyes" & accusing others of blindness if they can't "see' it; but this is NOT tangible Se data)
    I don't accuse others of blindness but I express that I am frustrated...because IRL I don't experience any frustration to explaining these things to other Ni users as I have in this forum...

    I think you've missed all the discussions where I've tried to explain my perceptions and was called names and stuff... That part doesn't suit the way you wanna see INFJs so that you can continue devaluing them (one INFJ in particular I guess) so you can feel better about yourself...

    Hating groups based on association has been called many things in history such as racism, misandry, misogyny and hate speech... You are putting these forward as honest criticism but they are tainted by your feelings... you deliberately emphasize the negative parts and refrain from mentioning positives... so it's hate speech...

    When and where did you first observe this pattern IRL?

    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    but with poor Se perception (no sense of CONTEXT outside of internal Ni vision & not involving actual tangible data)
    So enneagram type descriptions and MBTI functions don't count as Se data? What do you suggest that I should do to explain my perception about things?

    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    plus using common values (ie. how do we rate these types?) to assert personal value according to what is socially ideal (just enough Fe to boost the ego; unaware of shadow Fi), and as noted, rather shaky & hilariously bad Ti theorizing.
    The bolded is evidence that this is tainted by your hurt and negative feelings... Get over with it... How many years has it been now 2-3?

    And what's this about the common values and Fe boost? What do you suggest that I do instead? Is this a bad thing? When and when not?

    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    Funny how people always want to peg unhealthy INFJs as INFP though
    This is a ridiculously funny and entertainingly absurd generalization... Funny how people always want to hate other people based on association so that they can feel better about themselves...

  6. #46
    I could do things Hard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yeghor View Post
    I don't accuse others of blindness but I express that I am frustrated...because IRL I don't experience any frustration to explaining these things to other Ni users as I have in this forum...

    I think you've missed all the discussions where I've tried to explain my perceptions and was called names and stuff... That part doesn't suit the way you wanna see INFJs so that you can continue devaluing them (one INFJ in particular I guess) so you can feel better about yourself...

    Hating groups based on association has been called many things in history such as racism, misandry, misogyny and hate speech... You are putting these forward as honest criticism but they are tainted by your feelings... you deliberately emphasize the negative parts and refrain from mentioning positives... so it's hate speech...

    When and where did you first observe this pattern IRL?

    So enneagram type descriptions and MBTI functions don't count as Se data? What do you suggest that I should do to explain my perception about things?

    The bolded is evidence that this is tainted by your hurt and negative feelings... Get over with it... How many years has it been now 2-3?

    And what's this about the common values and Fe boost? What do you suggest that I do instead? Is this a bad thing? When and when not?

    This is a ridiculously funny and entertainingly absurd generalization... Funny how people always want to hate other people based on association so that they can feel better about themselves...
    Where to I begin?

    First, you're assuming a lot of stuff about OA, and her intentions, and it's really really unfair. I find it insulting and nasty TBH (again). She wasn't even replying to you. She was explaining what she saw as a logical inconsistency in someone elses explanation. It was quite objective from what I could tel.

    Yeah, OA is pretty upfront about not caring for INFJ's, but having a bais does not preclude one from being able to explain reasonings. She also has external, valid reasons for having her bias's. If just for the fact that misinformation about MBTI and functions (which you spread an INSANE amount of), keeps getting thrown out there that she's addressed in the past. It's tiring. As she has explained in the past, there has been slanted views towards what the functions are, and how they work. From running the INFJ forums years ago, I have seen this first hand as well. A bit different from OA, but there's enough there to see that's she's valid. Also, what she is saying is not hate speech. At all. A bit rough around the edges and a bit hard for some to take in (which is her style anyway), but that's it. She also can't possibly state or explain where she first saw this IRL. That's rediculously unfair to ask, because it's something almost no one could answer that.

    And I can totally understand why she is annoyed by INFJ's being pegged as INFP's if they're doing something or being shitty. It's just bad practice in general to "re-type" someone in the midst of a heated discussion, it just pissed people off nearly every time. Mix in the misinformation spread about Fi and INFP's, this is going to create a sore point.
    MBTI: ExxJ tetramer
    Functions: Fe > Te > Ni > Se > Si > Ti > Fi > Ne
    Enneagram: 1w2 - 3w4 - 6w5 (The Taskmaster) | sp/so
    Socionics: β-E dimer | -
    Big 5: slOaI
    Temperament: Choleric/Melancholic
    Alignment: Lawful Neutral
    External Perception: Nohari and Johari


  7. #47
    Senior Member wildflower's Avatar
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    if you just want to know what the professionals say, rather than what we think, then you can just read the back of the riso/hudson book

    IMG_0181.jpg

  8. #48
    Senior Member yeghor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wildflower View Post
    if you just want to know what the professionals say, rather than what we think, then you can just read the back of the riso/hudson book

    IMG_0181.jpg
    You are wrong...

  9. #49
    Senior Member wildflower's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yeghor View Post
    You are wrong...
    about what?

  10. #50
    Senior Member yeghor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wildflower View Post
    about what?
    I am asking for "your" interpretation not Riso-Hudson's...

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