You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to additional post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), view blogs, respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so please join our community today! Just click here to register. You should turn your Ad Blocker off for this site or certain features may not work properly. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us by clicking here.
You've already done that... All of us should pursue our own self-awareness...
About me I keep most of my Ni to myself IRL...but still can't fit in...I think I inadvertantly make people feel bad themselves...about that you may check this...
Yeah, but you have done it enough, and frequently enough, including after I asked you to stop multiple times, that I'd like to sort it out. Further, you said you have no intention of stopping if I quote you. Instead of having it pop up in random locations and be left inconclusive and unsettled between parties, I'd rather it be set down for good, or as close to that as possible. Since this is my type we're dealing with, I take issue with it and it's my perogative to go about resolving it. I'm going to do it, and I hope you contribute.
Also, if you want to know why so many people meet you with resistance, start a thread and ask. Seriously. You are bumping into people here a lot that react to you poorly. Despite them actually telling you the problem, it doesn't seem to be sinking in. It would be much easier for you to put it in one spot, and have it be cleared up. If you can figure out what the issue is, then perhaps you can go about working at it ans fix it.
Ok I'll do my best to contribute if you do that... But you gotta check whether the descriptions fit afterwards...
Also google socionics extended test and do it too... Enfjs have this hypnotizing, sleep inducing eyes I guess... Check Susan Cain for instance... check how she talks entrancingly... she feels like an ENFJ to me... don't know what others say... make a comparison...
The learned voice from childhood, i.e. superego, is coming from an "introverted perception" function, which continuously gazes internally upon the self, criticizes and instructs the self... it's a self-defense mechanism aimed to minimize the risks and threats to the self (mentally and physically)... However, it also torments and berates the self for mistakes (hence the perfectionism in 1s), and causes anxiety for the self, which also causes the self to be fearful, stressed as well as conflict and risk avoidant...
Edit:
Introverted perception functions are Si and Ni... Enneagram 9 descriptions mention something about 9 being the most grounded one in his body so I assumed Si is more related to 9 so that leaves Ni for enneagram 1...
Lest you forget that the Super-Ego is formed from the ethics of the outside culture, and that the Super-Ego has absolutely nothing to do with the self and introspection, which is more the domain of the Ego in the first place. The "learned voice" is the absorption of the ethics of the exterior culture, it criticizes the self if the self does not line up to the standards of the external world. The Super Ego does not introspect like a Pi function would, it scolds and leaves it at that.
Lest you forget that the Super-Ego is formed from the ethics of the outside culture, and that the Super-Ego has absolutely nothing to do with the self and introspection, which is more the domain of the Ego in the first place. The "learned voice" is the absorption of the ethics of the exterior culture, it criticizes the self if the self does not line up to the standards of the external world. The Super Ego does not introspect like a Pi function would, it scolds and leaves it at that.
How about Fe or Te in Si or Ni-doms serving as detectors to identify what's expected of the person either by the Fe strata\framework or the Te strate\framework...? So Fe or Te is the inlet and Ni or Si serves as the absorption mechanism...
Based on that, Ni or Si would serve as storehouses of Fe or Te "patterns" collected from the external world and Ni or Si would keep checking whether the person acts in line with those patterns and would create pain, anxiety, fear, hurt when the person fails to do so...
To be able to scold the self, Superego has to be something that acts towards the internal, i.e. an introverted function... I don't think I'd be wrong to say that the most conscientous\uptight (introverted) types are IxxJs...
ExxJs try to structure the external world around them so that they won't feel anxious... IxxJs try to structure themselves internally so that they won't feel anxious... which implies that that internal re-structuring requires either Ni-dom or Si-dom... That's why I came to associate Si and Ni, i.e. introverted perceiving functions with superego...whereas Ti and Fi are the "ego"...i.e. they contain the internally defined (dependent) parameters of the self\identity\ego... Ego can also be dependent on external feedback like in the case of Te or Fe...
How about Fe or Te is Si or Ni-doms serving as detectors to identify what's expected of the person either by the Fe strata\framework or the Te strate\framework...? So Fe or Te is the inlet and Ni or Si serves as the absorption mechanism...
Based on that, Ni or Si would serve as storehouses of Fe or Te "patterns" collected from the external world and Ni or Si would keep checking whether the person acts in line with those patterns and would create pain, anxiety, fear, hurt when the person fails to do so...
To be able to scold the self, Superego has to be something that acts towards the internal, i.e. an introverted function... I don't think I'd be wrong to say that the most conscientous\uptight (introverted) types are IxxJs...
ExxJs try to structure the external world around them so that they won't feel anxious... IxxJs try to structure themselves internally so that they won't feel anxious... which implies that that internal re-structuring requires either Ni-dom or Si-dom... That's why I came to associate Si and Ni, i.e. introverted perceiving functions with superego...whereas Ti and Fi are the "ego"...i.e. they contain the internally defined (dependent) parameters of the self\identity\ego... Ego can also be dependent on external feedback like in the case of Te or Fe...
I see what you are attempting to connect, but it isn't grounded, for the Super-Ego's criticisms are based through external absorption through the environment. You are attempting to suggest that the introverted perception function must be the instrument of the Super-Ego, for the Super-Ego's voice is internal and criticizing, when in fact the Super-Ego yearns the Ego to correct its course by acting in the environment and according to the environment. Simply because the Super-Ego's "voice" is inside the head does not necessarily mean that it is introverted or even extroverted rather. The Super-Ego acts like a survival mechanism, to scold the individual for being incompetent in an area of life and begging the individual to fix it by adjusting to the environment, it really has nothing to do with introspection, which is under the domain of the Ego (for we do not consciously control the Super-Ego, it acts on its own, much like the Id, and finding self-fault can sometimes also be the domain of the Ego if it so desires).
The functions really have no correlation with the Freudian parts of the psyche; I made the same mistake at one point. Fi, for instance, can criticize the self with relative ease for not sticking to a personalized moral code much like the Super-Ego with its external moral code that it has absorbed from the environment (which actually sounds much like Fe).
Some posters are lulling XXXX into thinking that he is normal when he is clearly not. Yes I made the subjective statement of the year by proclaiming him ABNORMAL! And some people congratulate him on being refreshingly non-PC? He is crazy! He's going to kill someone! He needs to be in ongoing professional therapy with ECT and possibly lobotomized! I know many people on this forum are outcasts IRL, but is this place supposed to be an haven and refuge for them? Why the fuck does he feel so comfortable saying shit like this here? Why is no one outraged? Why is he a fucking GOD AMONG MEN!
I want you so absolutely gone that my hands are shaking. You are not funny, you're not clever, you're not non-conformist. You make too many comments like this and I personally think you should have been gone last July. You are a disgusting sick freak.
I see what you are attempting to connect, but it isn't grounded, for the Super-Ego's criticisms are based through external absorption through the environment.
ISTJ - Si - Te I must be "useful" to have worth, to feel good...
ISFJ - Si - Fe I must be "socially proper" to have worth, to feel good...
INFJ - Ni - Fe I must be "socially proper" to have worth, to feel good...
INTJ - Ni - Te I must be "useful" to have worth, to feel good...
The auxiliary function serves as the absorption inlet for Fe or Te layer... Fe layer is about social behaviour and human relations i.e. etiquette, whereas Te behaviour is about trade, commerce, utility within the society... Both Fe and Te are societal frameworks dealing with different aspects of the society in this model...
In the dominant position, Te and Fe scans their respective environment and the auxiliary function tries to devise ways to enable the individual to get a higher status in the respective domain... For Fe, being highly regarded for instance, being a social leader, acquiring Fe value, i.e., standing in community, praise etc.; whereas for Te, being a successful professional, tradesman, acquiring Te value, wealth, power etc...
In the dominant position, Si's collected rules about usefulness or social properness are more strictly defined than that of Ni I guess... Si is more black and white and local whereas Ni is more flexible and global in that regard...
So someone with Si conscience would insist on relatively strictly the same values outside their locality whereas Ni conscience would look for similar patterns and overlaps...
So that's how they absorb the Fe or Te values while growing up... ExxJs try to rise up within the respective domain to feel good... Their internal voice tells them that they should be the most praised, most successful, wealthiest, most regarded etc...that's their drive... Does that sound like a drive coming from their conscience\superego...? Consider those traits and in whom they are found... The focus is on the self... They try to structure the respective domains around themselves to propel themselves up... So they take their position in the system as the reference...
IxxJs OTOH are driven by a need to appease the Fe or Te strata... They feel a need to be "socially proper" or "materially useful" so that they won't be criticized by the respective domains... They want to adjust themselves to the respective domains...as well as optimize those domains... Their focus is on the domain, not on the self... They try to optimize the system so that everyone will have more or less similar Fe or Te value within the system, thereby allowing smooth operation of the system... An egalitarian system in case of Fe... Free and fair trade and commerce in case of Te perhaps... So they take the overall health\robustness of the domain as reference... With conscience, comes the attitude to appease...
xxxPs are concerned about their self... not about any external domain... their feelings of self-worth are internally defined...
You are attempting to suggest that the introverted perception function must be the instrument of the Super-Ego, for the Super-Ego's voice is internal and criticizing, when in fact the Super-Ego yearns the Ego to correct its course by acting in the environment and according to the environment. Simply because the Super-Ego's "voice" is inside the head does not necessarily mean that it is introverted or even extroverted rather. The Super-Ego acts like a survival mechanism, to scold the individual for being incompetent in an area of life and begging the individual to fix it by adjusting to the environment, it really has nothing to do with introspection, which is under the domain of the Ego (for we do not consciously control the Super-Ego, it acts on its own, much like the Id, and finding self-fault can sometimes also be the domain of the Ego if it so desires).
The functions really have no correlation with the Freudian parts of the psyche; I made the same mistake at one point. Fi, for instance, can criticize the self with relative ease for not sticking to a personalized moral code much like the Super-Ego with its external moral code that it has absorbed from the environment (which actually sounds much like Fe).
The individual may feel bad about himself\herself for external circumstances not aligning with his\her values... But I don't know how they'll berate or guilt themselves about it...
Cause a Fi-dom or Ti-dom would always act in line with his\her values cause that's their dominant function... They wouldn't be able to detect whether they were inconsistent in their actions, resulting in a violation of self values... cause whatever they do would already stem from and be driven by their dominant function...meaning that they would always "think\feel\believe" that they were acting in line with their respective values...
They would only be aware of that when someone besides themselves pointed out that what they did at date X is inconsistent with what they did at date Y... That would create an internal turmoil inside the Ti or Fi-dom... They would either deny this so that ego can feel good again (Ti or Fi integrity restored) or would think about it an revise their inner Ti or Fi framework, working thru the pain... A Ti dom for instance would feel irritated, angry etc. when integrity of his\her Ti-framework was questioned... He\she may not be able to see or admit his\her mistakes...go into self denial... or work thru the negative feelings and learn to work within his\her ego...come to terms with it...gradually achieving maturity...
Ni and Si OTOH, also called as "irrational functions", are not controlled by the "ego"... So they can observe the ego's actions as if they were an outsider... That way, ego cannot go into self-denial or other primitive defense mechanisms... This of course sucks for the individual, lowering his\her self-esteem, causing pain, anxiety etc. at every mistake, making them over apolegetic, codependent etc...
If the superego wasn't so dependent on Ni or Si, there wouldn't be terms like egotist, projection, low self-esteem, denial or the kind, cause conscientousness and self-criticism would be the norm for everyone...
You need to propose to me something within the MBTI mechanism that explains why some are more conscientous, rule or duty-bound than others...
I would expect Fe-dom to be more like 3w2 or 3w4...
Type Three in Brief
Threes are self-assured, attractive, and charming. Ambitious, competent, and energetic, they can also be status-conscious and highly driven for advancement. They are diplomatic and poised, but can also be overly concerned with their image and what others think of them. They typically have problems with workaholism and competitiveness. At their Best: self-accepting, authentic, everything they seem to be—role models who inspire others.
Basic Fear: Of being worthless
Basic Desire: To feel valuable and worthwhile
Enneagram Three with a Two-Wing: "The Charmer"
Enneagram Three with a Four-Wing: "The Professional"
Key Motivations: Want to be affirmed, to distinguish themselves from others, to have attention, to be admired, and to impress others.
I think this is either defining Fe or Te-dom... Since enneagrams 2-3-4 are in the heart center, I'd expect it to be Fe-dom...
I can fly off the handle from time to time, but I'd try to make amends afterwards... I don't like offloading my negative feelings on others... I would rather report him for instance...
A strong superego (which I relate with enneagrams 9 and 1) is not that easy to overcome... Without overcoming it, you cannot see these kinds of outbursts... When it is restored to power, it would compel the individual to make amends for the outburst...
The type descriptions are giving indicators of motivators, drives and fears for each type...
Type One in Brief
Ones are conscientious and ethical, with a strong sense of right and wrong. They are teachers, crusaders, and advocates for change: always striving to improve things, but afraid of making a mistake. Well-organized, orderly, and fastidious, they try to maintain high standards, but can slip into being critical and perfectionistic. They typically have problems with resentment and impatience. At their Best: wise, discerning, realistic, and noble. Can be morally heroic.
Basic Fear: Of being corrupt/evil, defective
Basic Desire: To be good, to have integrity, to be balanced
Enneagram One with a Nine-Wing: "The Idealist"
Enneagram One with a Two-Wing: "The Advocate"
Key Motivations: Want to be right, to strive higher and improve everything, to be consistent with their ideals, to justify themselves, to be beyond criticism so as not to be condemned by anyone.
This is not an arthouse J... This is a factory that mass-produces types using a system that is supposed to be consistent within itself... It only produces 16 types of paintings... And if there's a clear-cut inconsistency between each type of painting, then either the factory or the painting is erroneous somehow... One of them has to be abandoned...
This is a factory that mass-produces types using a system that is supposed to be consistent within itself... It only produces 16 types of paintings... And if there's a clear-cut inconsistency between each type of painting, then either the factory or the painting is erroneous somehow... One of them has to be abandoned...
This is not an arthouse J... This is a factory that mass-produces types using a system that is supposed to be consistent within itself... It only produces 16 types of paintings... And if there's a clear-cut inconsistency between each type of painting, then either the factory or the painting is erroneous somehow... One of them has to be abandoned...
This is not an arthouse J... This is a factory that mass-produces types using a system that is supposed to be consistent within itself... It only produces 16 types of paintings... And if there's a clear-cut inconsistency between each type of painting, then either the factory or the painting is erroneous somehow... One of them has to be abandoned...
You have to remember that typology is merely an attempt to simplify that diversity by applying categorizations, in hopes of achieving better understanding of self and others. But there are no clear delineations. You have to draw the line somewhere. But since there aren't actually 16 discrete types of human, that line can be a bit arbitrary for a portion of the population.
It's like looking at a color spectrum and having to clearly mark off where "green" is. It's easy to point to the middle of the green area, but as you move towards other colors it becomes a little murkier. And yet, there is still value in the term green, even if there are bluish greens or greyish greens too.
