[Traditional Enneagram] Enneagram Type and MBTI function correlations...

[yeghor]

Continued

xNFP - Chill guy

ISFP - Flower child

ENFP - Stephen Fry - Oscar Wilde

xxFP - Wiccan

 

[yeghor]

Continued

xSFP - ?

xSFP - ?

Not sure

 

[yeghor]

Continued

Not sure

ExFP - ?

 

[OrangeAppled]

Oh wait.....who has the "special snowflake" complex again?
Don't see this sort of thing from INFPs...

 

[yeghor]

Oh wait.....who has the "special snowflake" complex again?
Don't see this sort of thing from INFPs...

You didn't read the fine print I guess...

This has another implication for you... There's a 90% chance that the people you hated for being INFJs were in fact some other type...

 

[OrangeAppled]

I'm just going to leave this here. Anyone with an ounce of discernment & honesty will see all those common INFJ patterns I point out are not in my head.

 

[yeghor]

I'm just going to leave this here. Anyone with an ounce of discernment & honesty will see all those common INFJ patterns I point out are not in my head.

Ironically, there's a 50% chance that the type that you are irritated with is actually IxFP...

What are the traits that you are irritated with in INFJs basically? ... Let's compare those traits to IxFP behaviour...

 

[yeghor]

The other thing to keep in mind is the Fe will lead to more of a phobic response than Te, as Fe will choose to submit or defer more often than Te, which will try to dominate, take charge, and impose both/either tertiary Fi's mandate, or what it considers to be objective Te truth. The 6SSs, the most superegoic and purely Systemic/mental of all (sub)types (of which I am one), is the counterphobic subtype, and would correlate to Te (and Ni, and probably Ti [and perhaps Ne as well]) thinking more than any of the other functions.

When I think of a phobic 6, my first thought is a deferring ISFJ (and, secondarily, INFJ and ISTJ).
When I think of the Prussian 6, I first think of STJs (and then all the other IJs).
When I think of counterphobic 6s, I think of NTJS and STPs (and NTPs and SFPs).

There's something fishy about enneagram 6... I can't pinpoint a single definition for it... Multiple traits seem to converge on it...

 

[á´…eparted]

In this graph, as you see only about 10% of INFJs are of enneagram types 1 and 2... If what I say holds water, this means that only 1 in 10 INFJs online is an actual INFJ...

See this is the problem. People have already challenged your stance on this, and have said it to be wrong, and you haven't been able to back it up. This is a common pattern you do. You make a claim, people say it's wrong and show how it is. Then you make nice and dance around it, ignore it when someone pins you down, then go on to say "well... I think this anyway (despite what other say)" and act as if the conversation didn't happen.

The problem is you entertain theories that hold no weight, or bad weight at best. You'll say "but Ni needs to consider everything...". It doesn't, and it shouldn't. Independent of type it's a waste of time, impratical, and illogical to enertain everything. The idea of occam's razor holds true with this. But, you're trying to float things that are just so unlikely to be right that it's just plain illogical in the literal sense of the word, and you seem so goddamn hellbend on pushing it forward anyway. It makes you come across as SO dense, and it's a major reason why so many people here get flustered with you, try to say something, and then ultimately say "yeah... you aren't worth the time". Quite frankly, I think this is going to sail right over your head anyway (if history is anything to go by) even if you claim otherwise. Actions speak.

A lot of the time I wonder if you try typing someone out of the blue that no one has ever questioned (for good reason), or suggest new theories that no one has ever suggested with little support, because you want to be seen as they guy that can cut through the most subtle veneers and be seen as all see and wise for picking up on something no one else ever considered. You keep trying in the hopes that, one of these days, you'll get a hit, and that all of the misses can somehow be discounted and ignored. In essence, it's a backdoor way of being seen as special, the exact type of thing that [MENTION=6561]OrangeAppled[/MENTION] talks about. I've seen people on typology forums due this before. Hell, I was even guilty of doing this 4-5 years ago, and at the time I was unable to see that was my drive for doing it. You also tend to question someones type when they disagree with you to, which also leads to people getting really upset, and it's often for highly stereotypical reasons.

And half of those who type themselves as INFJs are of the enneagram type 4, which I associate with IxFPs... So it appears Azure Flame was not that off the mark when he was "ranting" about INFPs mistyped as INFJs...

That means at any given time, half the INFJs you converse with will actually be IxFPs...

Your reasonings behind all of this do not have the support of MBTI and Jungian theory. It's not correct.

So I used to run the INFJ forums years back. There was lots of mistyping there, but in all honesty, most of the individuals there were typed correctly. That forum often seemed to have a lot of mistyping, because the culture of the forum had a lot of "witch hunting" mentality for true types based off a lot of nasty incidents from members of a non-INFJ type trolling and getting banned. It was meerly incidental that most were non-INFJ and claimed to be so, but it lead to a lot of people wanting to know who was "real" and if it didn't conform to the group ideal (which is an Fe thing) things could get iffy.

To be perfectly honest though, at the end of the day? Who cares. It's a freaking type label. Yeah labels feel nice (I personally rather like labels), but it's not a big deal. The idea that most people couldn't type themselves correctly is pretty asinine anyway (which is what you're suggesting). It's essentially saying the vast majority of the population lacks self awareness and the ability to self assess which isn't the case, and is pretty belittling to humans in general. From what I can tell, most (not all) here know the theories well enough to tell when someone might be typed wrong. If that happens, and there is support of it, it's openly and civilly discussed in most cases.

When theories are proposed, they are questioned, and tested. If proven wrong, theories are ditched. It's profoundly intellectually dishonest to hold onto a disproven and rejected theory. Doing so goes against how everything in the world works.

 

[serafinaaa]

Type 6 have a distinct correllation with Se, and a weaker correlation with non-dom Fi...

Type 5 belongs to the Ti/Ni doms. INTJs, INTPs, and ISTPs often type as 5. Most intuitives have 5 as a wing or belongs to a type which integrates or disintegrates into type 5.

Type 4 is obviously Fi. Melodramatic, believing himself to be special - in fact, some are so convinced of their individuality they can be honestly delusional. Most INFs belong here.

Heh... that's all i can think of for now. I'll add on later.

 

[yeghor]

See this is the problem. People have already challenged your stance on this, and have said it to be wrong, and you haven't been able to back it up. This is a common pattern you do. You make a claim, people say it's wrong and show how it is. Then you make nice and dance around it, ignore it when someone pins you down, then go on to say "well... I think this anyway (despite what other say)" and act as if the conversation didn't happen.

The problem is you entertain theories that hold no weight, or bad weight at best. You'll say "but Ni needs to consider everything...". It doesn't, and it shouldn't. Independent of type it's a waste of time, impratical, and illogical to enertain everything. The idea of occam's razor holds true with this. But, you're trying to float things that are just so unlikely to be right that it's just plain illogical in the literal sense of the word, and you seem so goddamn hellbend on pushing it forward anyway. It makes you come across as SO dense, and it's a major reason why so many people here get flustered with you, try to say something, and then ultimately say "yeah... you aren't worth the time". Quite frankly, I think this is going to sail right over your head anyway (if history is anything to go by) even if you claim otherwise. Actions speak.

A lot of the time I wonder if you try typing someone out of the blue that no one has ever questioned (for good reason), or suggest new theories that no one has ever suggested with little support, because you want to be seen as they guy that can cut through the most subtle veneers and be seen as all see and wise for picking up on something no one else ever considered. You keep trying in the hopes that, one of these days, you'll get a hit, and that all of the misses can somehow be discounted and ignored. In essence, it's a backdoor way of being seen as special, the exact type of thing that [MENTION=6561]OrangeAppled[/MENTION] talks about. I've seen people on typology forums due this before. Hell, I was even guilty of doing this 4-5 years ago, and at the time I was unable to see that was my drive for doing it. You also tend to question someones type when they disagree with you to, which also leads to people getting really upset, and it's often for highly stereotypical reasons.

Your reasonings behind all of this do not have the support of MBTI and Jungian theory. It's not correct.

So I used to run the INFJ forums years back. There was lots of mistyping there, but in all honesty, most of the individuals there were typed correctly. That forum often seemed to have a lot of mistyping, because the culture of the forum had a lot of "witch hunting" mentality for true types based off a lot of nasty incidents from members of a non-INFJ type trolling and getting banned. It was meerly incidental that most were non-INFJ and claimed to be so, but it lead to a lot of people wanting to know who was "real" and if it didn't conform to the group ideal (which is an Fe thing) things could get iffy.

To be perfectly honest though, at the end of the day? Who cares. It's a freaking type label. Yeah labels feel nice (I personally rather like labels), but it's not a big deal. The idea that most people couldn't type themselves correctly is pretty asinine anyway (which is what you're suggesting). It's essentially saying the vast majority of the population lacks self awareness and the ability to self assess which isn't the case, and is pretty belittling to humans in general. From what I can tell, most (not all) here know the theories well enough to tell when someone might be typed wrong. If that happens, and there is support of it, it's openly and civilly discussed in most cases.

When theories are proposed, they are questioned, and tested. If proven wrong, theories are ditched. It's profoundly intellectually dishonest to hold onto a disproven and rejected theory. Doing so goes against how everything in the world works.

Let's say someone sold you an apple advertising it as all sweet, juicy and yummy but it left a sour taste in your mouth... I am also selling apples and I want to sell you one but you refuse and tell me they taste bad and not even anything like they are advertised... I get confused cause my apples don't taste "sour"... Edit: You also go on a campaign as to inform the public that apple vendors are misleading the public and that apples are all sour and bad...

I look around and see all these stalls selling "apples"... I smell and feel them and I get confused cause even though they are labeled as "apples" they don't feel like that at all... Damn, they are infact oranges, that's why taste sour... It's the vendor who labeled them wrong accidentally...

Now don't you go and take this as Apples>Oranges... I like them both...

How much of this do you identify with the belowgiven?

https://www.enneagraminstitute.com/typeone.asp

 

[yeghor]

Type 6 have a distinct correllation with Se, and a weaker correlation with non-dom Fi...

Type 5 belongs to the Ti/Ni doms. INTJs, INTPs, and ISTPs often type as 5. Most intuitives have 5 as a wing or belongs to a type which integrates or disintegrates into type 5.

Type 4 is obviously Fi. Melodramatic, believing himself to be special - in fact, some are so convinced of their individuality they can be honestly delusional. Most INFs belong here.

Heh... that's all i can think of for now. I'll add on later.

Thanks for the contrib...

 

[á´…eparted]

Let's say someone sold you an apple advertising it as all sweet, juicy and yummy but it left a sour taste in your mouth... I am also selling apples and I want to sell you one but you refuse and tell me they taste bad and not even anything like they are advertised... I get confused cause my apples don't taste "sour"... Edit: You also go on a campaign as to inform the public that apple vendors are misleading the public and that apples are all sour and bad...

I look around and see all these stalls selling "apples"... I smell and feel them and I get confused cause even though they are labeled as "apples" they don't feel like that at all... Damn, they are infact oranges, that's why taste sour... It's the vendor who labeled them wrong accidentally...

Now don't you go and take this as Apples>Oranges... I like them both...

How much of this do you identify with the belowgiven?

https://www.enneagraminstitute.com/typeone.asp

I am a type 1 to my core. It's somewhat laughable at how much I fit it.

Please do not use metaphor to explain your point. It can be confusing to others, often can be misintepreted, can appear as a slip around the discussion, and can come across as very passive aggressive. I think I get what you're trying to say, but it would be much clearer if you explain it. If I ever use a metaphor, I always explain what I meant with it so as it's understood. I don't do ambiguity.

Either way, as I understand it, you're seeing this place like everyone here has mislabeled everything, and you're trying to correct everyone? So essentially you feel the majority here is wrong and you're trying to correct them? Sort of like your on a crusade. Well, that's quite a lofty goal. The only person to my knowledge who has done some sort of thing similar to that is [MENTION=5510]simulatedworld[/MENTION] years back. When he proposed his new ideas, he was refrencing Jung's work HEAVILY. It was well supported, and (while nasty at times) had lots of debate and discussion to help refine and define the theories and what was truly meant. Even then it's not the same at what your proposing.

I think I get what you're implying with refrencing being a type 1, as you claim to be one as well. The drive to make things right and correct. I get it, trust me. It's fine to use that to explain why this is something you're driven to do. However, it is not an excuse for pushing ideas that have been shown to hold no weight. This is a matter of intellecutal dishonesty, and your inability to see it as that. You seriously, seriously, need to learn to let go of gut feelings when they are shown to be unfounded.

Let's go back to the initial premise: You propose something, it's rejected, and it is so for well founded reasons. That means it's time to move on. Just because you SUPER STRONGLY feel you are right, doesn't actually make it right. If people keep telling you "no, no no" again and again, there is something to that. Eventually there is a point where you have to accept it's wrong, or accept that you'll be unable to explain what you intend. It's a waste of energy.

Again, don't be vauge or use metaphor if you want to speak to me. It makes things confusing, and it's also a huge pet peeve of mine.

 

[yeghor]

I am a type 1 to my core. It's somewhat laughable at how much I fit it.

Please do not use metaphor to explain your point. It can be confusing to others, often can be misintepreted, can appear as a slip around the discussion, and can come across as very passive aggressive. I think I get what you're trying to say, but it would be much clearer if you explain it. If I ever use a metaphor, I always explain what I meant with it so as it's understood. I don't do ambiguity.

Either way, as I understand it, you're seeing this place like everyone here has mislabeled everything, and you're trying to correct everyone? So essentially you feel the majority here is wrong and you're trying to correct them? Sort of like your on a crusade. Well, that's quite a lofty goal. The only person to my knowledge who has done some sort of thing similar to that is [MENTION=5510]simulatedworld[/MENTION] years back. When he proposed his new ideas, he was refrencing Jung's work HEAVILY. It was well supported, and (while nasty at times) had lots of debate and discussion to help refine and define the theories and what was truly meant. Even then it's not the same at what your proposing.

I think I get what you're implying with refrencing being a type 1, as you claim to be one as well. The drive to make things right and correct. I get it, trust me. It's fine to use that to explain why this is something you're driven to do. However, it is not an excuse for pushing ideas that have been shown to hold no weight. This is a matter of intellecutal dishonesty, and your inability to see it as that. You seriously, seriously, need to learn to let go of gut feelings when they are shown to be unfounded.

Let's go back to the initial premise: You propose something, it's rejected, and it is so for well founded reasons. That means it's time to move on. Just because you SUPER STRONGLY feel you are right, doesn't actually make it right. If people keep telling you "no, no no" again and again, there is something to that. Eventually there is a point where you have to accept it's wrong, or accept that you'll be unable to explain what you intend. It's a waste of energy.

Again, don't be vauge or use metaphor if you want to speak to me. It makes things confusing, and it's also a huge pet peeve of mine.

"N" uses metaphors and abstract language... It also uses analogies to simplify matters and make things understood with much more ease... Don't know if this is specifically Ni's doing... But it may be cause Ni can see repeating patterns and similarities between things (in terms of patterns)...

If you are irritated with this... there's a chance that you may be an N-inferior or Ni-inferior perhaps, specifically if that made you feel as if I was belittling you intellectually or you felt intellectually inferior somehow...

Apple = INFJ, Orange = IxFP, Campaigner = OrangeAppled

The bold part feels like an ultimatum rather than a request... Something I've seen Te (edit: and sometimes Se) do...

I'm sorry I can't modify my style to suit yours... You can always ask for clarifications though if you want... Or not respond if you will...

 

[Evo]

That's not necessarily a good thing. It's one thing to try, it's another to keep redoing the same thing with at best a veneer change.

omfg that list is so funny.

(Although I don't know which one I would say yeghor is.)

 

[á´…eparted]

"N" uses metaphors and abstract language... It also uses analogies to simplify matters and make things understood with much more ease... Don't know if this is specifically Ni's doing... But it may be cause Ni can see repeating patterns and similarities between things (in terms of patterns)...

If you are irritated with this... there's a chance that you may be an N-inferior or Ni-inferior perhaps, specifically if that made you feel as if I was belittling you intellectually or you felt intellectually inferior somehow...

Apple = INFJ, Orange = IxFP, Campaigner = OrangeAppled

The bold part feels like an ultimatum rather than a request... Something I've seen Te (edit: and sometimes Se) do...

I'm sorry I can't modify my style to suit yours... You can always ask for clarifications though if you want... Or not respond if you will...

Selective memory at it's best! My god you really are as dense as a brick wall. And low and behold, you are doing exactly what I warned you was something that pisses people off. Questioning someones type in the middle of a discussion. Worse, it's for stereotypical reasons. Also, do you not remember the little discussion a while back where I explicitly asked you, in no uncertain terms, to not question my type? You're unfit to do it as your foundation for the theory is terrible. STOP, DON'T DO IT AGAIN. You're wrong. I'm REALLY REALLY trying to restrain my temper here. Being irritated by a discussion style has nothing to do with my type. I even said I will use metaphor, but I always explain it, so it's clear for everyone.

What you've done is blame shifting. "Hmm... let's change the subject and question his type, cause I can't support my argument!". You did not address what I said at all. Again. All you did was focus on a communcation issue. This distracting from the entire main point of this discussion.

 

[Chad of the OttomanEmpire]

I reject correlations between enneagram types and (dominant) cognitive functions for reasons also mentioned by prominent others. Jung was describing cognitive processes--how we think, perceive, and make systematic and interpersonal calculations. He was NOT hinting at an early discovery of enneatypes--enneagram types being closer to emotional patterns or orientations toward life.

The only truly credible correlation thus far I've seen comes from What's My Type? by Renee Baron, who has studied both systems and has created some beginner-level books to introduce users to both systems. Even she doesn't correlate 1 to Te, 2 to Fe, etc. Instead, she has noted that certain enneatypes and MBTI types have more-common to least-common occurrences, and there are many overlaps.

Here's what I remember:
ESTJ--Most likely 1, 3, 6, or 8
ESFJ--Most likely 1, 2, 3, 6
ISTJ--Most likely 1, 5, 6
ISFJ--Most likely 1, 2, 6, 9

(note how both Baron and I use "most likely" since oddities are presumably possible)

ESTP--1, 3, 7
ESFP--2, 7, 8
ISTP--1, 5, 6
ISFP--2, 4, 9

(I have met several confirmed ESTP 8s, so see how exceptions are possible. This is a rough guide only)

ENTJ--1, 3, 8
ENTP--3, 6, 7, 8
INTJ--1, 3, 5, 6, 8
INTP--5

ENFJ--2, 3, 7
ENFP--2, 4, 7
INFJ--1, 2, 4, 5, 6
INFP--2, 4, 5, 6, 9

I take her words more seriously than online polls. She's studied both and worked with numerous individuals to help them find both types correctly. She keeps an error of margin open (just because your type is listed as "least likely", it doesn't mean "impossible").

I personally think there are correlations between MBTI and enneagram, but find find most enneagram authors' work correlating Jung's Types to be frankly atrocious and to show a real misunderstanding of Jung's work.

My two cents.

 

[yeghor]

Selective memory at it's best! My god you really are as dense as a brick wall. And low and behold, you are doing exactly what I warned you was something that pisses people off. Questioning someones type in the middle of a discussion. Worse, it's for stereotypical reasons. Also, do you not remember the little discussion a while back where I explicitly asked you, in no uncertain terms, to not question my type? You're unfit to do it as your foundation for the theory is terrible. STOP, DON'T DO IT AGAIN. You're wrong. I'm REALLY REALLY trying to restrain my temper here. Being irritated by a discussion style has nothing to do with my type. I even said I will use metaphor, but I always explain it, so it's clear for everyone.

[MENTION=20829]Hard[/MENTION] I'd advise you stop insulting me... I'll report it if it goes on like this...

I am sorry but you are trying to put restrictions on what I can say and suppressing my voice here... I am not harassing you or insulting you here... You just don't like what I am saying... But remember that it's you who engaged me first in this forum... If you engage me, please know that I'll use whatever you say to form a better understanding of you... And I'll point out any inconsistencies in your typing...

This blowing up thing for instance doesn't fit an enneagram 1 (a super-ego dominant) main type... What happens when you cannot hold you temper back?

Funny thing is my ESFP coworker also threatened me with blowing up and beating me up IRL... He used EXACTLY the same words..."I am barely holding myself back" or something like that... He also didn't like what I had to say...

You need to identify what it is exactly (beyond me) that's raising this temper (which is most likely related to Se-dom and Fi-aux)...

If you are indeed an ESFP, I would expect your enneagram typing to be 8w7 or something like that followed by 4w3 or something like that... So I'd expect an 84x tritype...

Please, if you don't want me to type you, DON'T ENGAGE ME IN CONVERSATION... I'll make sure to not offer typings about you in other instances...

Check these as well:

http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63856&p=2271529&viewfull=1#post2271529

http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63856&p=2279180&viewfull=1#post2279180

 

[á´…eparted]

[MENTION=20829]Hard[/MENTION] I'd advise you stop insulting me... I'll report it if it goes on like this...

I am sorry but you are trying to put restrictions on what I can say and suppressing my voice here... I am not harassing you or insulting you here... You just don't like what I am saying... But remember that it's you who engaged me first in this forum... If you engage me, please know that I'll use whatever you say to form a better understanding of you... And I'll point out any inconsistencies in your typing...

This blowing up thing for instance doesn't fit an enneagram 1 (a super-ego dominant) main type... What happens when you cannot hold you temper back?

Funny thing is my ESFP coworker also threatened me with blowing up and beating me up IRL... He used EXACTLY the same words..."I am barely holding myself back" or something like that... He also didn't like what I had to say...

You need to identify what it is exactly (beyond me) that's raising this temper (which is most likely related to Se-dom and Fi-aux)...

If you are indeed an ESFP, I would expect your enneagram typing to be 8w7 or something like that followed by 4w3 or something like that... So I'd expect an 84x tritype...

Please, if you don't want me to type you, DON'T ENGAGE ME IN CONVERSATION... I'll make sure to not offer typings about you in other instances...

Check these as well:

http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63856&p=2271529&viewfull=1#post2271529

http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63856&p=2279180&viewfull=1#post2279180

How about this. Since you are SO insistent that I am not my type. How about I start a thread welcoming and opening others to scrutinize my type? You can say whatever you want there. That will make it as clear as it can be on what it is. This way, it will be settled once it's done.

As for why you are raising my temper: because you don't listen. You repeat the same kind of factual errors, again, and again, and again, everywhere here. Others try to correct you, and you go on doing what you did before seemingly unchanged. It's very very frustrating. I am not the only one that feels this way. This is why you meet resistance to a lot of people on here when you offer type related ideas, and they are shut down. If there is a theme with how people react with you, then there must be something about you that triggers this in others.

 

[yeghor]

How about this. Since you are SO insistent that I am not my type. How about I start a thread welcoming and opening others to scrutinize my type? You can say whatever you want there. That will make it as clear as it can be on what it is. This way, it will be settled once it's done.

As for why you are raising my temper: because you don't listen. You repeat the same kind of factual errors, again, and again, and again, everywhere here. Others try to correct you, and you go on doing what you did before seemingly unchanged. It's very very frustrating. I am not the only one that feels this way. This is why you meet resistance to a lot of people on here when you offer type related ideas, and they are shut down. If there is a theme with how people react with you, then there must be something about you that triggers this in others.

You've already done that... All of us should pursue our own self-awareness...

About me I keep most of my Ni to myself IRL...but still can't fit in...I think I inadvertantly make people feel bad themselves...about that you may check this...

http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=68979

Also please see: