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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by yeghor View Post
    Because 4 and 5 doesn't have the superego strength that one would expect to find in INFJs...
    So because of your bullshit, unfounded tertiary Ti speculation?

    Yes, exactly.

    That's what I thought.

    Quote Originally Posted by yeghor View Post
    not so sure about 6...
    6 is the most superegoic of all types: 6SS.

    Quote Originally Posted by yeghor View Post
    but I guess 6's insecurity is more related material domain (Te)...
    Wrong.

    Once again, complete and utter foundationless tertiary Ti bullshit subjective logic speculation.

    You know which TYPE of 6 is more concerned about the material domain? SP 6s.

    Not SO's, and not SX's.

    THEIR 6 concerns lie more in other domains.

    How bout you actually learn the fucking theories before you start just mashing them together without any clue what you're doing?

    Quote Originally Posted by yeghor View Post
    Believe it or not, I'm not gunna waste my time reading all that.

  2. #22
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    Anyway, I am seriously done here, I am not wasting any more time on you.

  3. #23
    untitled Chanaynay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    This is much better than @yeghor's (which is overly simplistic, inflexible, myopic, and doesn't even have one for 2s [which are obviously correlated to FJ {and, after that, F in general (2s are Agreeable, Ts are not [BIG 5])}]).
    Yes, 2 is very much an F type on average.

    Yours, Chandler (is it ok to use your name? I seriously can't say "Chanaynay" - if not, let me know, and I'll take it out), is totally acceptable and on point, but, if there were any comments I would make they would be:
    Chandler works. People can call me whatever they please, within reason haha.

    - there are a decent number of IF 5s
    Hmm, do you think this could be narrowed down to INFs? There's a surprisingly high number of ISFP 5s on the first chart, but on the second chart both ISFs are in the "very rare" category for both 5s.

    Is there a big enough number of them to say they're worth mentioning along IT types though?

    - e6 can really be any type, but seems to be more associated with Pi dominance than anything else
    Hmm yes, this makes sense to me.

    - there are actually a decent amount of EF 8s (not nearly as many as ETs, but enough)
    I could see this particularly for EFPs, but sounds incredibly rare for EFJs. Not that it doesn't sound out of the realm of possibility since I know plenty of EFJs that value independence and being in control, sometimes both at the same time depending on the person, so I see how it might manifest. But yeah, ETs generally rule the 8 category.

    - e9 is more associated with IFs than ITs, but yes, Xi is appropriate
    Yeah, I agree. ITJ 9s seem to be the rarest type of 9s out of the introverts.
    7w6 - 2w3 - 8w7 sx/so


  4. #24
    Senior Member yeghor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    Anyway, I am seriously done here, I am not wasting any more time on you.
    I feel like the village idiot... Ok thanks anyway...

    People, I hope you'll not refrain from making further comments on this... I am also learning in the process so any further comments are welcome...

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chanaynay View Post
    Hmm, do you think this could be narrowed down to INFs? There's a surprisingly high number of ISFP 5s on the first chart, but on the second chart both ISFs are in the "very rare" category for both 5s.

    Is there a big enough number of them to say they're worth mentioning along IT types though?
    Sorry, yeah, INF is more accurate.

    And, yeah, clearly 5 is dominated by ITs.

    My comments were kinda just footnotes I would add to what you said.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chanaynay View Post
    I could see this particularly for EFPs, but sounds incredibly rare for EFJs. Not that it doesn't sound out of the realm of possibility since I know plenty of EFJs that value independence and being in control, sometimes both at the same time depending on the person, so I see how it might manifest. But yeah, ETs generally rule the 8 category.
    Yeah, for sure about the ETs.

    EFP is probably > EFJ, but, honestly, I've seen/heard of a good number of EFJ 8s as well.

    If you trust the data in the chart I put together enough (frankly, at low levels, like 1-2% or 1-3%, it starts being too close to a reasonable margin of error; but, that being said, I see 3% reporting as a type as more significant than 1% [hell, and even 2%]), then ENFJ 8s are actually just as common as ESFP 8s, and more common than ENFP 8s. I've mostly seen ENFP 8s, with some ENFJ 8s, but ENFPs are far more likely to visit typology forums than the other EFs, so, I would say it's safe to assume that there could be a decent number of ENFJ 8s, and possibly even more than any other EF types. ESFJ 8s I've also heard of, but ESFJs are so uncommon on internet forums, let alone typology forums, that it would be hard to know. I could see why they'd be the least likely of all EFs to be 8s, tho. I mean, there's simply not enough data to know, but something like ENFJ = ESFP > ENFP > ESFJ would not terribly surprise me.

  6. #26
    I could do things Hard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yeghor View Post
    I feel like the village idiot... Ok thanks anyway...

    People, I hope you'll not refrain from making further comments on this... I am also learning in the process so any further comments are welcome...
    You certainly have to have noticed how many people have challenged you on the forums, saying you're ideas are not well founded, or even just flat out wrong. There's a theme, and it seems that you aren't even picking up on that. If you are learning, it's really reeeeeeeeeally slow.
    MBTI: ExxJ tetramer
    Functions: Fe > Te > Ni > Se > Si > Ti > Fi > Ne
    Enneagram: 1w2 - 3w4 - 6w5 (The Taskmaster) | sp/so
    Socionics: β-E dimer | -
    Big 5: slOaI
    Temperament: Choleric/Melancholic
    Alignment: Lawful Neutral
    External Perception: Nohari and Johari


  7. #27
    Senior Member Alea_iacta_est's Avatar
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    Loose correlations, for any enneatype can be any Jungian type theoretically.

    Type 1 - Te/Fi for 1w9, Je for 1w2
    Type 2 - Fe
    Type 3 - Fe (for social 3), Sx, Tx
    Type 4 - Ni, Fi
    Type 5 - Ti, Ni
    Type 6 - Si if Prussian, Se if Counterphobic, Ni if Phobic, Tx
    Type 7 - Ne, Se, Fx non dominant
    Type 8 - Te, Se, Fi non dominant, tert. or inf.
    Type 9 - Fi (extraordinarily loose correlation). N/A really.

    Enneatype MBTI mascots.

    Type 1 - ISTJ
    Type 2 - ESFJ
    Type 3 - ESTx (I couldn't decide)
    Type 4 - ISFP (Fi - Ni mechanism is the reason why it fits)
    Type 5 - ISTP (Ti - Ni mechanism)
    Type 6 - ISTJ Prussian, ISTP Counterphobic, INTJ Phobic*
    Type 7 - ENTP
    Type 8 - ENTJ (Shadowed by ESTP)
    Type 9 - INFP

    I find it interesting how well inferior Se plays into the Phobic 6's character. There is an inferiority complex when it comes to the environment, and thus the environment is mistrusted and constantly scanned for threats. 6 definitely seems to have a rather interesting connection to the Se/Ni axis.

    Wait, @yeghor, did you just associate introverted intuition with Type 1? I have to hear the deduction behind this.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alea_iacta_est View Post
    Loose correlations, for any enneatype can be any Jungian type theoretically.
    Well... there are certain enneatypes that seem likely to almost never happen, and possibly never do happen.

    Like... INTJ ISTP 2.

    Or ISFJ 8.

    Not saying they couldn't, but...

    I've never come across a single one.

    And there are a good number others like this too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alea_iacta_est View Post
    Type 1 - Te/Fi for 1w9, Je for 1w2
    Type 2 - Fe
    Type 3 - Fe (for social 3), Sx, Tx
    Type 4 - Ni, Fi
    Type 5 - Ti, Ni
    Type 6 - Si if Prussian, Se if Counterphobic, Ni if Phobic, Tx
    Type 7 - Ne, Se, Fx non dominant
    Type 8 - Te, Se, Fi non dominant, tert. or inf.
    Type 9 - Fi (extraordinarily loose correlation). N/A really.
    I think @Chanaynay's is better.

    It's cleaner, and hits pretty much all the main points.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alea_iacta_est View Post
    Enneatype MBTI mascots.

    Type 1 - ISTJ
    Type 2 - ESFJ
    Type 3 - ESTx (I couldn't decide)
    Type 4 - ISFP (Fi - Ni mechanism is the reason why it fits)
    Type 5 - ISTP (Ti - Ni mechanism)
    Type 6 - ISTJ Prussian, ISTP Counterphobic, INTJ Phobic*
    Type 7 - ENTP
    Type 8 - ENTJ (Shadowed by ESTP)
    Type 9 - INFP

    I find it interesting how well inferior Se plays into the Phobic 6's character. There is an inferiority complex when it comes to the environment, and thus the environment is mistrusted and constantly scanned for threats. 6 definitely seems to have a rather interesting connection to the Se/Ni axis.
    Umm...

    I don't really see the INTJ connection to phobic...

    All the ones I've seen are counterphobes or prussians...

    Usually the phobics are IFJs...

  9. #29
    Senior Member Alea_iacta_est's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    Well... there are certain enneatypes that seem likely to almost never happen, and possibly never do happen.

    Like... INTJ ISTP 2.

    Or ISFJ 8.

    Not saying they couldn't, but...

    I've never come across a single one.

    And there are a good number others like this too.



    I think @Chanaynay's is better.

    It's cleaner, and hits pretty much all the main points.



    Umm...

    I don't really see the INTJ connection to phobic...

    Usually the phobics are IFJs...
    Valid point. There is an extreme scarcity of IxTx 2s, but it still possible, though not highly probable, that there is an INTJ 2 somewhere.

    @Chanaynay's is a good correlation due to the focus on inclusive types rather than cognitive functions. It's absolutely excellent for discerning which types are associated to each enneatypes, but does not specifically correlate cognitive functions, as was this thread's purpose.

    I think that the INTJ represents the Phobic 6 well, especially the 6w5, which is the more often wing subtype accompanied with phobic (and counterphobic). I could see the ISFJ perhaps entertaining the role of the phobic 6, but I have trouble seeing this for the INFJ, as 6 is not only a slightly T-oriented type, but also somewhat deprived of Fe. The INTJ represents the insecurity of the environment through its own inferiority complex around Se, and thus is highly mistrustful of the environment around it. The lead Ni often leads to some paranoia (Ni-Fi mechanism when unchecked by Te-Se mechanism) and doubts, which characterize many Ni leading types (as described by one resource, the Ni types attempt to condense everything down to one possibility and even then doubt that possibility to death). Which specific representative would you choose for the sp 6?

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alea_iacta_est View Post
    Valid point. There is an extreme scarcity of IxTx 2s, but it still possible, though not highly probable, that there is an INTJ 2 somewhere.
    This is true.

    I have wondered what the hell that would look like.

    It would be really fucking odd.

    And goddamn would they be good at it.

    (haha... if we could only be made to give a damn...)

    Quote Originally Posted by Alea_iacta_est View Post
    @Chanaynay's is a good correlation due to the focus on inclusive types rather than cognitive functions. It's absolutely excellent for discerning which types are associated to each enneatypes, but does not specifically correlate cognitive functions, as was this thread's purpose.
    Ok, got it.

    Fair enough.

    I think the other method is more useful, though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alea_iacta_est View Post
    I think that the INTJ represents the Phobic 6 well, especially the 6w5, which is the more often wing subtype accompanied with phobic (and counterphobic). I could see the ISFJ perhaps entertaining the role of the phobic 6, but I have trouble seeing this for the INFJ, as 6 is not only a slightly T-oriented type, but also somewhat deprived of Fe. The INTJ represents the insecurity of the environment through its own inferiority complex around Se, and thus is highly mistrustful of the environment around it. The lead Ni often leads to some paranoia (Ni-Fi mechanism when unchecked by Te-Se mechanism) and doubts, which characterize many Ni leading types (as described by one resource, the Ni types attempt to condense everything down to one possibility and even then doubt that possibility to death). Which specific representative would you choose for the sp 6?
    ISTJ, ISFJ, INFJ

    I've seen a bunch of ISFJ and INFJ phobic 6s here... and at least one ISTJ...

    I've seen zero phobic INTJ 6s here...

    I don't see where you get that 6 is deprived of Fe...

    They really don't post here much anymore, but there used to be a cackle of IFJ phobic 6s here...

    I don't know if you could really draw an 6 subtype correlations to MBTI...

    Other than maybe ISTP counterphobics, and IFJ (and maybe ISJ as well) phobics.

    Consider how inferior Ne could cripple someone with paranoia just as bad, if not worse, than Ni dominance and Se inferior...

    Inferior Se might actually tend to lead the person to lash out more in a counterphobic sense, and perhaps actually be proactive...

    Whereas inferior Ne will be more just frantic mental scenario-making, and less tendency to actually get physically proactive.

    Remember, INTJs are overrepresented among those who use "Working Out/Exercising" as a Leisure Activity.

    (And also are among the top three types to be over-represented amongst substance abusers...)

    So, just because their Se is inferior, doesn't mean they don't use it! :P

    http://www.discoveryourpersonality.com/intj.html

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