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  1. #201
    Senior Member yeghor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skgarcia View Post
    My friend, I am very aware of what my ideal man is. I am very aware of what an ISTP and INTP man are like "in the wild." I've dated an INTP for years and coincidentally my direct supervisor at work is an ISTP. You, in all actuality, seem to have a less realistic grip on cognitive functions than I do.

    No one competes unless they consider themselves a part of the flock. The fact you are still blatantly telling me I am feeling and interpreting my own subjective reality incorrectly, while not knowing me in the least, makes you seem silly.
    What type do you think your ideal man is then?
    @skgarcia or any other character or celebrity that approach that ideal?

  2. #202
    Sheep pill, broster asynartetic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skgarcia View Post
    My friend, I am very aware of what my ideal man is. I am very aware of what an ISTP and INTP man are like "in the wild." I've dated an INTP for years and coincidentally my direct supervisor at work is an ISTP. You, in all actuality, seem to have a less realistic grip on cognitive functions than I do.

    No one competes unless they consider themselves a part of the flock. The fact you are still blatantly telling me I am feeling and interpreting my own subjective reality incorrectly, while not knowing me in the least, makes you seem silly.


    Ohhhhh buuuurned.


  3. #203
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yeghor View Post
    It's not ridiculous. Based on the least preferred parts of enneagram I am trying to find out about the inferior function in mbti.
    Then you have Je to work with in @skgarcia's results. The chance of her being an ISFJ, as you claimed, is small.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  4. #204
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skgarcia View Post
    I am very aware of typology and to call me an IS-anything could not be further from the truth. My intuition score on the MBTI was 89% the very first go (I know too much about the test now for any current score to be truly accurate) and I have always felt an innate gift to read people and my surroundings. If anything, I am more intuitive than 90% of the N types I've met. Sometimes I feel as if I can "read minds" and manipulate entire social/conversational situations in order to get the topic focused on what I need it to be on. Definitely not a sensor type. I'm very probing and perceptive on a metaphysical level, not just physically.

    I feel very comfortable calling myself self actualized; perhaps it's just unusual to see a healthier-than-average INTP with a well conditioned Fi on these forums? Just because it is an unusual personality combination to display vibrant healthiness doesn't mean I have mistyped myself, especially after a year and a half of research. Why would I lie to myself about my own psychology when the entire reason I became interested in MBTI was to learn about myself?

    The last two letters probably change by the day or moment, but I know I am not an IS on any day.
    I'll go with INFP for you. Intuitives can come off as thinking doms, and are thus sometimes stereotyped as intellectuals. But that's all up to you.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  5. #205
    Junior Member skgarcia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yeghor View Post
    What type do you think your ideal man is then?
    @skgarcia or any other character or celebrity that approach that ideal?
    My ideal type is undoubtedly an INTP. I probably wouldn't function well with an INFP, INFJ, or INTJ. I'm way too intensely introverted to be with any E, even an EN. I've tried. Dating an S is out of the question, there's not enough depth for my needs in a committed relationship.

    INFP are not masculine enough. I must admit, I want a man that can defend me even in a primal, rational, life-or-death state. I can't get wet for someone that can't.

    INFJ I've come to realize can be very heartless--they're aware of other's feelings, but judge their environment self-righteously when they're unhealthy. I've been very hurt by INFJ friends.

    INTJ do not exhibit the kind of emotional needs I have, but I've never met an INTJ male, so my viewpoint may be biased there. I am extremely messy though, much more than my INTJ friend. This could perhaps cause tension in a relationship with an INTJ because I truly am messy to an annoying extent for most, but I can't say so for sure.

    My INTP is 6'2, 200 pounds, my best friend as I am his, an intellectual genius yet still plays video games with me all night, as messy as I am, makes me laugh, plays with me like a child, and yet still commands my respect. Note I said commands my respect, not demands. When you are a good looking female with the brains I have, sexually, I desire something that doesn't desire me. I want what is better than me. Our sex melts the paint off the walls and is in another universe. Just because you "don't understand how to interpret that" doesn't mean I'm wrong--perhaps you are?

  6. #206
    Senior Member yeghor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skgarcia View Post
    My ideal type is undoubtedly an INTP. I probably wouldn't function well with an INFP, INFJ, or INTJ. I'm way too intensely introverted to be with any E, even an EN. I've tried. Dating an S is out of the question, there's not enough depth for my needs in a committed relationship.

    INFP are not masculine enough. I must admit, I want a man that can defend me even in a primal, rational, life-or-death state. I can't get wet for someone that can't.

    INFJ I've come to realize can be very heartless--they're aware of other's feelings, but judge their environment self-righteously when they're unhealthy. I've been very hurt by INFJ friends.

    INTJ do not exhibit the kind of emotional needs I have, but I've never met an INTJ male, so my viewpoint may be biased there. I am extremely messy though, much more than my INTJ friend. This could perhaps cause tension in a relationship with an INTJ because I truly am messy to an annoying extent for most, but I can't say so for sure.

    My INTP is 6'2, 200 pounds, my best friend as I am his, an intellectual genius yet still plays video games with me all night, as messy as I am, makes me laugh, plays with me like a child, and yet still commands my respect. Note I said commands my respect, not demands. When you are a good looking female with the brains I have, sexually, I desire something that doesn't desire me. I want what is better than me. Our sex melts the paint off the walls and is in another universe. Just because you "don't understand how to interpret that" doesn't mean I'm wrong--perhaps you are?
    I think I was mistaken. I beginning to think that you are an ESFJ. I still gotta watch your video though.

    Any celebrity or character that you identify yourself with as well as any other that you identify your ideal man with?

  7. #207
    Junior Member skgarcia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yeghor View Post
    I think I was mistaken. I beginning to think that you are an ESFJ. I still gotta watch your video though.

    Any celebrity or character that you identify yourself with as well as any other that you identify your ideal man with?

    If you're trying to joke, you're not funny; I know who I am. If you're being serious, your opinion is worthless. With that, I withdraw from your thread.
    Last edited by Bellflower; 07-22-2014 at 08:27 PM. Reason: post edited

  8. #208
    I want my account deleted
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    Quote Originally Posted by skgarcia View Post
    Just because you "don't understand how to interpret that" doesn't mean I'm wrong--perhaps you are?
    ^^ I vote for this as the defining and closing statement for this entire discussion, start to finish.

  9. #209
    Senior Member yeghor's Avatar
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    My latest results:

    Enneagram Test Results

    The Enneagram is a personality system which divides the entire human personality into nine behavioral tendencies, this is your score on each...

    Type 1 Perfectionism |||||||||||||||| 70%
    Type 2 Helpfulness |||||||||||| 50%
    Type 3 Image Focus |||||||||||| 42%
    Type 4 Individualism |||||||||||| 42%
    Type 5 Intellectualism |||||||||||||||| 62%
    Type 6 Security Focus |||||||||||||| 58%
    Type 7 Adventurousness |||||||||| 34%
    Type 8 Aggressiveness |||||| 30%
    Type 9 Calmness |||||||||||| 42%

    type score type behavior motivation
    1 17 I must be perfect and good to survive.
    5 15 I must be knowledgeable to survive.
    6 14 I must be secure and safe to survive.
    2 12 I must be helpful and caring to survive.
    3 10 I must be impressive and attractive to survive.
    4 10 I must be unique/different to survive.
    9 10 I must maintain peace/calm to survive.
    7 8 I must be fun and entertained to survive.
    8 7 I must be strong and in control to survive.

    1_7 (25) 5_6 (29) 2_3 (22) 9_8 (17)

    Ti> Ni>Fe>Si why is 5 and 6 coming out so strong?

    My variant stacking came out as omni? What is omni?

    What is Omni type?

    I invented the Omni type to account for people who don't have a stand out mean type. As they are balanced in all nine behaviors, the 1-9 type descriptions don't generally apply to them.


    According to this I am progressive and regressive at the same time? How does that work?

  10. #210
    Senior Member yeghor's Avatar
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    Deconstructing the Enneagram | Personality Research

    Type Description Consistencies/Inconsistencies

    The Enneagram has always been plagued by inconsistent descriptions between authors and Ichazo's architecture was too vague to resolve those inconsistencies. Having constructed a health neutral Enneagram architecture with an empirical basis and consistent with Ichazo's original fixations, I think I can clarify each type and discuss what common descriptions fit and don't fit.

    Type 1

    Naranjo correlated type 1 with the Obsessive-Compulsive personality disorder. My research confirms that to be accurate. I think Type 1 is one of the more inconsistently described personality types. The idea of type 1 behavior being about the need to reform others, the world, is not accurate based on the data.

    Type 1 behavior is about an instinctual need for order, rule-following. Being driven more by instincts, people who score higher on type one are more likely to be small minded, focused on their own narrow world than the bigger picture. That focus however can be very useful in many aspects of life where attention to detail, following the rules exactly, is important if not essential. People who score highly on type one behavior make great administrators, micro-managers, detail experts. DAMN!
    Type 2

    Naranjo correlated type 2 behavior with Histrionic personality disorder but that doesn't fit. Type 2 behavior is basically synonymous with Big 5 Accommodation and MOTIV Intimate personality types.

    Type 2s at their worst sacrifice themselves to connect with (stay close to) others, and at their best look out for the good of the whole world in their efforts to improve society. The ideas of type 2s being calculated in their charity I don't think is accurate on average. In fact, it's more of an unchecked evolutionary drive that I think determines their selfless behavior which often benefits the world more than them individually. Social work is one of the more individually unrewarding professions in terms of work required and monetary compensation, and Type 2s predominate the field.
    Type 3

    Average type 3 behavior correlates most with Histrionic personality disorder. Type 3 at the core is about attention, desire for attention, expectation for attention. The success/achiever stereotype fits with healthy, high functioning type 3s, but not the average type 3. The average type three while likely being more attractive than others in some way, does not lead a particularly high achieving life. As long as they can be the star in their own little world (to their friends, family, and/or their significant other) they won't often have much drive to achieve much more.

    Consequently, many people who score higher on three behavior while appearing to be model individuals (frequently externally talented, successful, charming, attractive), often are very lacking as far as internal personality development and thus can be very boring individuals if you get to know them (or what there is to know of them). Unhealthy threes will act out if they are not getting sufficient attention. They are one of the most likely types to cheat (in service to their attention needs).
    Type 4

    Naranjo's links type 4 with Masochistic and Depressive personality. People who score as type 4 are slightly more likely to self-report as having had periods of depression, but in general all types can be depressed. Depression is about poor mental/physical health not the type 4 personality. Unhealthy type fours do self-rate slightly higher than other types on being masochistic (but that is not true of average or healthy type 4s).

    I find a lot of conflation and convolution between type 3 and type 4 descriptions such that aspects of many Enneagram authors type 4 descriptions contain type 3 behaviors. The need to be special correlates with the type 3 core fixation, not the type 4 core fixation. Envy is also an issue for unhealthy type 3s, not type 4s as most Enneagram authors claim. Envy is antithetical to a type that overvalues authenticity (being true to self). To be envious of others is to betray oneself, and the flaw of Type 4s is being overly loyal to their unique nature.

    Fours romanticize their different-ness and/or their flaws rather than feel shame as a someone who scores high on Type 3 would. Being dramatic, another common type four errant description is type 3 attention seeking behavior. Thus, a lot of self typed fours are actually threes. There is no reason a person can't be high in both types, but on average, there is no correlation between type 3 and type 4.

    Michael Jackson who is frequently typed as a 4w3 is more type 3 than type 4. His plastic surgery addiction alone is indicative more of an unhealthy three than a type 4. He fired producers based solely on record sales (popularity) not artistic quality. As a highly creative artist, he certainly had four-ish aspects, but his personality was more reflected by type three motivations. The fixation of type four is on authenticity, unconventionality, an over preference for being different, Jackson was more interested in fame/attention/external-validation (type 3 focus).

    Fours at their unhealthiest can lose touch with reality not unlike schizophrenics. All fours operate more on imagination/fantasizing than other types, it's only unhealthy fours where their fantasizing takes on a melancholic tone which predominates most author's type four descriptions. Healthy fours use their imaginations productively/constructively, to create art, new ideas, theories.
    Type 5

    Naranjo links type 5 with Schizoid personality. Unhealthy type 5s are more likely to fit certain aspects of Schizoid personality, in terms of being detached, unemotional (other unhealthy types can match that profile as well). Schizoids are characterized as intellectually dull, incurious and that is where even unhealthy type 5s differ from the Schizoid profile. All type fives (healthy and unhealthy) share a cerebral intensity.

    The analytical nature is what best defines the five orientation. Fives all have a desire for omniscience, or at least to get closer to it. Someone who has not developed a mastery at anything is unlikely to score high on type five. Unhealthy fives are the nihilists of the Enneagram, struggling with the meaninglessness of existence. Most Enneagram types are orthogonal so there is no reason an average or healthy type 5 can't be as warm/friendly as any other type save type two which is the quintessential warm fuzzy type. The stereotypical cold type five is a product of self selection bias and type descriptions written to reflect more unhealthy type aspects.
    Type 6

    Naranjo ties type 6 with Paranoid and Avoidant personality disorders. This association is only accurate for unhealthy type sixes who do tend to be jealous and suspicious by nature. Average sixes are simply cautious types that prioritize security but are perfectly capable of trusting others. Average to healthy sixes don't go through life constantly worrying about the sky falling.

    Healthy sixes are skilled trouble shooters with the capacity to see problems before they occur and often possess the mental acumen to fix them. The Counterphobic and Phobic type six can be explained by unhealthiness and one's score on other types. Unhealthy type 6s who score high on type 7 and 8 are more likely to be counterphobic; unhealthy type 6s who score higher on type 2 and 9 are more likely to be phobic. The profile of the doubting anxiety ridden type six common in most Enneagram descriptions is just not accurate for average and healthy type sixes.
    Type 7

    Naranjo associates type 7 with Narcissistic personality disorder and I find this to be a weak association at best. Type 7s benefit and can get by with their charm, but I don't think this is what motivates them. There seems to be an underlying adrenaline seeking drive that motivates 7s to constantly be doing, experiencing, seeking adventure. The attractiveness of this persona, the stereotypical adventure hero type, is I think why Naranjo made the mistake of associating type 7s with Narcissistic personality.

    Type sevens are historically part of the mind triad, but I think this is an error in the original Enneagram system. The planning orientation of the 7 (always thinking of that next adventure) is a product of that body based sensation addiction that sevens have. The type seven is mentally undeveloped compared to types 4, 5, and 6 (which I think is the more accurate Enneagram mind triad). If a seven took the time to determine what made them happy instead of experiencing/associating happiness as a temporary phenomenon to be chased, they could find the consistency and coherence in life they tend to lack. Healthy sevens, more than any other type, are fully alive and present in the moment. Unhealthy sevens are more likely to be junkies and burnouts, the unproductive hedonists of the Enneagram.
    Type 8

    Naranjo correlates type 8 with Antisocial and Sadistic personalities. This is only proves true (as with most Naranjo associations) with unhealthy type 8s. Unlike Antisocial and Sadistic personalities, type 8 is more about anger/gut-intensity than selfishness, where the former personalities suffer both.

    Unhealthy 8s are the angry children and bully's of the Enneagram but they are not likely to be calculated about it (as you can find with many Anti-Social are Sadistic personalities), it's more of a physical urge to control/lead/boss. Healthy eights, more than any other type, are drawn to leadership for the sake of enjoyment of leading (not for prestige and attention like type 3, i.e. most politicians). They tend to be strong and comfortable asserting themselves in ways people who score low on type 8 are entirely incapable of.

    The dangers with types 8s is that they assert themselves on others without their consent, intellectual/physical/emotional rape, but this is more of an issue/problem with unhealthy eights (or eights that are very low on type 2).
    Type 9

    Type nine descriptions are consistently the worst. This partly is because type nines by their type fixation, indolence, are mentally vague/lazy about who they are (or want to be), so Enneagram authors/teachers are getting less information about who they are.

    They are the type most likely to be clueless about what type they are among the nine Enneagram types. A common error in type descriptions paints nines as accommodating and merging, which are actually type two behaviors. The issue is that nine passivity can appear like accommodation/merging, but as the Enneagram is about motivation, not appearances, nines are actually no more or less accommodating than other types (besides twos).

    In fact, they can be the most unaccommodating in terms of their tendency when unhealthy towards a passive, zombie-lie unmovable nature. Type nines are best characterized as over preferring relaxation/calm/peace, as such they are the chillers/slackers of the Enneagram. At their healthiest nines are columns of comfort for others, the silent strong type. At their worst they are the like the cautionary character in the film Wall-e, blobs of mental and physical inactivity floating through life.
    Main Type

    Enneagram authors mostly claim every person has one main type and that type does not change. I think that is simplistic and it's certainly unproven. Type 4, 5, and 6 behaviors largely make use of a part of the brain (the cerebral cortex) that doesn't full develop until the early 20s. There is no reason type preference can't change throughout life or that an individual could not equally prefer more than one type behavior.

    The biggest issue is that the Enneagram main types don't cover all the possible types of personality. The selfish fixation (MOTIV Withholding) is not included in the Enneagram system. It can be inferred by a low type 2 preference, but cannot be expressed as a main type. A selfish fixation is not an uncommon personality type, so this is a pretty big hole in the Enneagram. Further, MOTIV Subjectivistic, Conventional, and Emotional types are not represented by Enneagram main types. Again, they can be inferred by low type scores on type 3, 4, and 5, but they get ignored by main type theory.

    The reality is all nine Enneagram behaviors have utility/value, so to not be proficient at any one of them suggests character/personality weakness, to overvalue any them could also result in problems. I think main type theory promotes fallacious self identification, I-am-this-not-that thinking, which results in narrow minded self-awareness, a simple minded inflexible.

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