User Tag List

First 5131415161725 Last

Results 141 to 150 of 255

  1. #141
    I want my account deleted
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    6w5
    Posts
    401

    Default

    @yeghor, I'm not interested in substantive or other dialogue with you. I simply do not respect your intelligence and I think your approach to typology is along the lines of delusional.

    Anyone else reading: I have already communicated with @highlander my best thinking on possible ways to address some of the problems, though it's also true I also suspect that the problems with this site are likely far too entrenched to be changed even with good intentions and efforts. I'd love to be wrong on that second part but not holding my breath.

  2. #142
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    12,444

    Default

    Enneagram 1 = Ni? Sounds to me like all you want to do is have your own enneagram type (Enneagram 1) match up with your own so-called MBTI type, INFJ.
    Btw, there's an E1 INTP, E1 ESTJ, and E1 ENFJ in this forum. And that's just for starters.

  3. #143
    Senior Member yeghor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    2,418

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    Enneagram 1 = Ni? Sounds to me like all you want to do is have your own enneagram type (Enneagram 1) match up with your own so-called MBTI type, INFJ.
    Btw, there's an E1 INTP, E1 ESTJ, and E1 ENFJ in this forum. And that's just for starters.
    There's some truth to what you said. Starting around 8 years ago, I've become quite certain about my type and have been learning about functions and typology ever since.

    My understanding of the functions and typology have doubled since I've joined the forums and exchanged ideas with people.

    It is true that I've used my own type and enneagram result as a template to try to understand the correlation between MBTI functions and enneagram types.

    I am an extremely self conscious and conscientous person, to my detriment, which fits with INFJ type, as well as someone with an overdeveloped superego, causing all kinds of problems related with a weak ego. As for enneagram, enneagram 1, 5, 6 and 2 keeps coming out strong in my enneagram results.

    I can easily see that my Fe is related to (or represented by) my 2 score and Ti is related to 5 score.

    In a discussion outside this topic, I've noticed that self conscientous (read "anal") types are usually IxxJs, who happen to have dominant Si or Ni. So being an Si-dominant or Ni-dominant must imply the presence of a too strong superego that inhibits an individual's behaviour and living, whereas to the contrary, Ne and Se dominant types i.e. ExxPs are disinhibited in their behaviour, which fits with the concept of an overdeveloped "id", i.e. impulsive drives for pleasure seeking.

    So this must mean perceiving functions have something to do with "superego" and "id" depending on their direction. They have power over the ego in the dominant position, which means the individual's ego is suppressed or amplified in case of being a superego-dominant or id-dominant type, respectively. Therefore, perceiving functions N and S must be acting independent of an individual's ego (autonomously) to have power over the ego. The interaction between superego, ego and id is defined as follows:

    The ego represents what may be called reason and common sense, in contrast to the id, which contains the passions ... in its relation to the id it (ego) is like a man on horseback, who has to hold in check the superior strength of the horse; with this difference, that the rider tries to do so with his own strength, while the ego uses borrowed forces."[22] Still worse, "it serves three severe masters ... the external world, the super-ego and the id."[20] Its task is to find a balance between primitive drives and reality while satisfying the id and super-ego. Its main concern is with the individual's safety and allows some of the id's desires to be expressed, but only when consequences of these actions are marginal.

    "Thus the ego, driven by the id, confined by the super-ego, repulsed by reality, struggles ... [in] bringing about harmony among the forces and influences working in and upon it," and readily "breaks out in anxiety—realistic anxiety regarding the external world, moral anxiety regarding the super-ego, and neurotic anxiety regarding the strength of the passions in the id."[23] It has to do its best to suit all three, thus is constantly feeling hemmed by the danger of causing discontent on two other sides. It is said, however, that the ego seems to be more loyal to the id, preferring to gloss over the finer details of reality to minimize conflicts while pretending to have a regard for reality. But the super-ego is constantly watching every one of the ego's moves and punishes it with feelings of guilt, anxiety, and inferiority.
    In the IxxJ types, the type of superego sensitivity is distinguished by the accompanying auxiliary function, which would mean IxFJ types would be sensitive (anal) about their behaviour related with the Fe domain, whereas IxTJ types would be sensitive about their behaviour related with the Te domain. I know by personal experience that in IxFJs, this is related with being a too nice person to the point of letting go of one's own preferences and desires in favor of others' and being too sensitive to people's feedback about the self, which turns into a compulsion for people pleasing behaviour and codependent tendencies. This explains how enneagram 2 compulsion fits with IxFJ types.

    The superego dominance of IxxJ types also manifests itself in the form of perfectionism and self-berating for perceived shortcomings and mistakes. This fits well with enneagram 1 compulsion as follows:

    ONEs try to be good so they won’t be punished. They want at all cost to stop their “conscience” from condemning them. One day it is no longer the real mother who plays this role. The mother’s demands are internalized and become their inexorable demands. It is their own punishing voices that now accuse the ONEs when they aren’t noble, helpful, and good enough. The point here is not necessarily objective goodness or willingness to sacrifice, but one’s own subjective concept of these virtues. Inside ONEs, court is continually in session; they are their own prosecutor, defender, and judge. The conflicting voices keep nagging them; they bicker, interrupt, contradict, and correct one another. Anybody who isn’t a ONE can hardly imagine how exhausting it is to go through this endless inner trial. At this point the “objective observer of the trial” has to come into play and say: “Stop this! Don’t drive yourself crazy with your own exaggerated standards and moral principles. And remember that these are your subjective views and not the objective truth.”

    ONE-children have renounced the development of their true selves to please others and earn the love of people who have sent them the signal. “You’re okay only when you’re perfect.” ONE-children have the childhood driven out of them; too soon they have had to act like adults. Often they had to take on responsibility, very early on, for a family in which for one reason or another one of the parents was missing; or as the oldest child they had to take over and become a role model for the younger brothers and sisters.
    So, Si-dom and Ni-dom is somehow connected to having a too strong superego, which fits with enneagram 1 type of compulsion. However, I've come to notice a difference of the manifestation of this superego dominance and the way the individual deals with this in Si-doms (one ISTJ and one ISFJ) and Ni-doms (one INFJ).

    I've come to notice that ISxJs have this habit of being happy with the situation being fine in their immediate environment as well as denying seeing the presence of existing problems and suppressing them. I've seen my ISTJ father doing this all my life. An ISFJ coworker also have this habit of wanting to forget problems and be "perfect" in his ignorance and denial of them. Both my father and he don't want their internal peace (perfection?) disrupted by external factors and go to lengths of reinterpreting them so as to make them acceptable to their superego. It's some kind of reframing things to maintain inner peace. ISFJ coworker for instance says that even if he's mistreated at work, he (wants to) forgets all about it when he reaches home.

    This drive\compulsion in ISxJs reminded me of enneagram 9 behavior as follows:

    Psychological Defenses: NINEs use the defense mechanism of narcotization to avoid conflict (from within or without) and to maintain a self-image of being “comfortable/harmonious” (narcotization is using food and drink, reading, TV, or simply repetitive patterns of thinking and doing to put oneself in a state of reduced awareness and feeling)

    Levels of Development

    Middle: Active, but disengaged, unreflective, and inattentive. Do not want to be affected, so become unresponsive and complacent, walking away from problems, and “sweeping them under the rug.” Thinking becomes hazy and ruminative, mostly comforting fantasies, as they begin to “tune out” reality, becoming oblivious. Emotionally indolent, unwillingness to exert self or to focus on problems: indifference.

    Lower: Begin to minimize problems, to appease others and to have “peace at any price.” Stubborn, fatalistic, and resigned, as if nothing could be done to change anything. Into wishful thinking, and magical solutions. Others frustrated and angry by their procrastination and unresponsiveness.

    Directions of Integration and Disintegration

    Stress (Average SIX)
    NINEs attempt to avoid anxiety and conflict by detaching emotionally from active participation and by not talking about their real concerns and issues. But they can only use this defense up to a point, beyond which they can no longer contain their anxiety, frustration, and fear. At such times, they will begin to exhibit many of the characteristics and behaviors of average-to-unhealthy SIXes. The usually stable, easygoing NINE becomes worried, testy, and defensive. They begin to see others as the source of their unease, complaining to anyone who will listen, and blaming everyone else for their distress. They may also have issues with authority, feeling put upon or controlled by those they see as having power over them. Under prolonged stress, NINES completely lose their placid demeanor and become more and more reactive and nervous. They may seek help and reassurance from others but may just as quickly disparage them for “dominating” or “overwhelming” them.
    INxJs OTOH cannot detach from their perceived problems cause N is more focused on the problem on a global\wholistic level wheras S is focused on it on a local\immediate vicinity level. Edit: I just hypothesize that Ns' problems are active in their minds even when the problematic impulse is no longer in their vicinity.

    So it all makes sense to me that:

    Enneagram 8 compulsions manifests itself in MBTI thru dominant-Se type of behaviour,
    Enneagram 9 compulsions manifests itself in MBTI thru dominant-Si type of behaviour.
    ^S spectrum.

    Enneagram 2 compulsions manifests itself in MBTI thru auxiliary-Fe type of behaviour.
    Enneagram 3 compulsions manifests itself in MBTI thru dominant-Fe type of behaviour.
    Enneagram 4 compulsions manifests itself in MBTI thru dominant-Fi type of bahaviour.
    ^F spectrum.

    Enneagram 7 compulsions manifests itself in MBTI thru domnant-Ne type of behaviour.
    Enneagram 1 compulsions manifests itself in MBTI thru dominant-Ni type of behaviour.
    ^N spectrum.

    Enneagram 5 compulsions manifests itself in MBTI thru dominant-Ti type of behaviour.

    I've doubts about enneagram 6 behaviour. I've seen my ENTJ friend displaying counterphobic 6 behaviour. He says things like "let it be him\her who's afraid rather than me." I don't know if his enneagram 6 score is high or not. He also seems to have a compulsion to control the behaviour of people around him so as to feel safe and he does this thru Te and seems to value loyalty (to him). So I guess enneagram 6 compulsions are manifested in MBTI thru Te-dominant behaviour (which also make the spectrums complete)
    ^T spectrum.

    So this is the story behind the theory.

    Enneagram 1 = Ni? Sounds to me like all you want to do is have your own enneagram type (Enneagram 1) match up with your own so-called MBTI type, INFJ.
    Btw, there's an E1 INTP, E1 ESTJ, and E1 ENFJ in this forum. And that's just for starters.
    I'd believe they are mistyping themselves in one (or both) of the systems.

    So you are right that I've used myself as a reference point to start with this theory. But it's a starting point for me rather than an end.

    I'd love to try to read your enneagram result if you will.

    Why "so-called" by the way? Do you see behaviour in me that doesn't fit with INFJ type?

  4. #144
    The King Liason's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    5w4 sp/sx
    Socionics
    LII Ne
    Posts
    182

    Default Regarding the commonality between enneatypes with Ni doms and Ti+Se

    From what I have observed Ti+Se emulates Ni quite well, and vice versa, understandably making ISTP's the most common mistype for INTJ's. I find it logical they would share their most common enneatypes. The sensory connections to Ti would be an identical experience to that of an Ni dom, yet with the combination of Ti+Se, it would not relate well to Fe as a processing system (relevant to how the individual primarily thinks), as it is only a system of data directly relating to their experiences. It would exclude dom Fe for this reason, and tighten the categorical colander as to where aux Fe might apply, as dom Fe is the base external source of what is and is not acceptable in one's environment, an entirely different route of thinking, especially as a dominant extraverted function, where it is subconsciously affiliating the environment with personal values, beliefs, and ideals. Thusly, ENFJ's would be correlated with vastly different ennea patterns, and INFJ's would be more commonly in tune with types that think in such a way to promote, upkeep, and or protect their ideals, despite these types coming to them in a similar associative mechanisms to dom Ni, thusly 1's, 6's, and 9's for INFJ's, and 1's, 2's, 3's, and 6's for ENFJ's. INFJ's would not mesh as type 2's or 3's very often, as it is a type more concerned with their environment, and the associations they create for themselves. Logically, this would be why ENFJ's would be much more commonly found as such. Despite being heavy users of both Ti and Se, ESTP's do not emulate Ni very well, as rather than Se supplementing a range of information with personal experiences, Ti is supplementing a personal flavor of rationale to each experience Se provides.

    While Si delves in with personal experiences too, it is more of a matchmaking system, and works to compare experiences with one another, ex: this smells is B, and though I have never smelled B, it smells close to A. It makes no conclusions with this information, simply differentiating between experiences as a comparative tool to be used by whichever function will provide it reasoning. As a comparative function, it does not align similarly with how Ni works, as Ni simply follows one mental association to another.
    The Symbol of the King*The Absolute Does Not Exist*Kingship Will Bring Me Freedom
    5w4-4w5-1w9

  5. #145
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    12,444

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by yeghor View Post
    There's some truth to what you said. Starting around 8 years ago, I've become quite certain about my type and have been learning about functions and typology ever since.
    My understanding of the functions and typology have doubled since I've joined the forums and exchanged ideas with people.
    Considering the quality of posts spewed into the forum versus prior years, when this forum was comprised of mainly theoretical exploration, that doesn't say much of your understanding. At the present time, it's nothing but a game of Pin-the-Tail-On-The-Donkey - place a blindfold over your eyes and follow people around the forum pinning tails (types) on them is a strange game, hardly one that would lead to any degree of in-depth understanding or truth. What is "right" today may be "wrong" next year. How people look at themselves, and the world, can easily change over the years depending on life circumstances. I could post comments from one person made, say, ten years apart, and I would be willing to bet a large sum of money many would type the person as if they were two different people. I take the word "certainty" with a grain of salt.

    Quote Originally Posted by yeghor
    It is true that I've used my own type and enneagram result as a template to try to understand the correlation between MBTI functions and enneagram types.
    Food for thought:

    Many organizations use both the Enneagram and MBTI because they are highly complementary and focus on different but compatible aspects of human beings. In addition, there have been numerous correlations between Enneagram styles and MBTI types. For example, Enneagram style Ones tend more toward judging rather than perceiving, Twos tend more toward feeling than thinking, Fours tend more toward intuition than sensing, Fives are more often thinkers than feelers, and so forth.

    What makes these correlations particularly interesting is that where correlations do exist, there are always individuals of a particular Enneagram style who are different from the norm. For example, what is the inner experience of a perceiving One, given that Enneagram Ones tend to judge themselves, others, and everything around them? What happens to a thinking Two, someone who tunes into others far more than him- or herself, values relationships and feelings, but then makes decisions more by principle and objective analysis than by feelings and values? Or a feeling Five – Fives automatically and instantaneously detach from their feelings then experience them later. What is it like to cut off from feelings when they are so central to who you are and how you make decisions? These are just a few of the many ways the Enneagram and the MBTI have synergies and raise paradoxical dilemmas.

    Source: Other systems | The Enneagram in BusinessThe Enneagram in Business
    Where you and I differ greatly is, you're likely to think, "Joe cannot be a particular type because of X, Y, or Z." I'm likely to think of possibilities as to how an unusual combination might work. Iow, what you automatically rule out, I ask "what if?" That's why I posted that food for thought quote.

    I can easily see that my Fe is related to (or represented by) my 2 score and Ti is related to 5 score.
    Go back and read the food for thought quote, again - the possibility of a feeling 5 or a thinking 2, and why, or how, that's possible, rather than forming a rigid framework with zero alternatives.

    Consciousness is key.

    So being an Si-dominant or Ni-dominant must imply the presence of a too strong superego that inhibits an individual's behaviour and living, whereas to the contrary, Ne and Se dominant types i.e. ExxPs are disinhibited in their behaviour, which fits with the concept of an overdeveloped "id", i.e. impulsive drives for pleasure seeking.
    I could argue INFJs are insatiable cookie-eaters and sex addicts since they may have little control over their impulses, stemming from unconscious sensation. It's all in how you look at it.

    An ISFJ coworker also have this habit of wanting to forget problems and be "perfect" in his ignorance and denial of them.
    Try considering ISFJ for yourself. If the shoe fits, wear it.


    Enneagram 8 compulsions manifests itself in MBTI thru dominant-Se type of behaviour,
    Enneagram 9 compulsions manifests itself in MBTI thru dominant-Si type of behaviour.
    ^S spectrum.

    Enneagram 2 compulsions manifests itself in MBTI thru auxiliary-Fe type of behaviour.
    Enneagram 3 compulsions manifests itself in MBTI thru dominant-Fe type of behaviour.
    Enneagram 4 compulsions manifests itself in MBTI thru dominant-Fi type of bahaviour.
    ^F spectrum.

    Enneagram 7 compulsions manifests itself in MBTI thru domnant-Ne type of behaviour.
    Enneagram 1 compulsions manifests itself in MBTI thru dominant-Ni type of behaviour.
    ^N spectrum.

    Enneagram 5 compulsions manifests itself in MBTI thru dominant-Ti type of behaviour.
    One way.
    One way.
    One way.
    One way.
    One way.
    One way.
    One way.
    One way.

    The only compulsion I see is in your approach to the enneagram. It's a neon sign blinking.

    I'd love to try to read your enneagram result if you will.
    Considering how you think, I have no interest.

  6. #146
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    MBTI
    IxTP
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/sp
    Socionics
    LII Ti
    Posts
    14,019

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    Considering the quality of posts spewed into the forum versus prior years, when this forum was comprised of mainly theoretical exploration, that doesn't say much of your understanding. At the present time, it's nothing but a game of Pin-the-Tail-On-The-Donkey - place a blindfold over your eyes and follow people around the forum pinning tails (types) on them is a strange game, hardly one that would lead to any degree of in-depth understanding or truth. What is "right" today may be "wrong" next year. How people look at themselves, and the world, can easily change over the years depending on life circumstances. I could post comments from one person made, say, ten years apart, and I would be willing to bet a large sum of money many would type the person as if they were two different people. I take the word "certainty" with a grain of salt.
    Then why do you hang around this lame forum?
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  7. #147
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    12,444

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mal12345 View Post
    Then why do you hang around this lame forum?
    Considering you predicted highlander would be more of a "pallbearer" for the forum, rather than an owner, I find your question ironic.

  8. #148
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    MBTI
    IxTP
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/sp
    Socionics
    LII Ti
    Posts
    14,019

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    Considering you predicted highlander would be more of a "pallbearer" for the forum, rather than an owner, I find your question ironic.
    This forum is badly broken. It crawls, I'm constantly being asked if I want to "leave the page," it double-posts. In other words, there have been no significant performance improvements since @highlander took the helm.

    The only reason I stay is because it annoys you so for me to hang on to this sinking ship.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  9. #149
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    MBTI
    IxTP
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/sp
    Socionics
    LII Ti
    Posts
    14,019

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    Considering you predicted highlander would be more of a "pallbearer" for the forum, rather than an owner, I find your question ironic.
    This forum is badly broken. It crawls, I'm constantly being asked if I want to "leave the page," it double-posts. In other words, there have been no significant performance improvements since @highlander took the helm.

    The only reason I stay is because it annoys you so for me to hang on to this sinking ship.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  10. #150
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    12,444

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mal12345 View Post
    This forum is badly broken. It crawls, I'm constantly being asked if I want to "leave the page," it double-posts. In other words, there have been no significant performance improvements since @highlander took the helm.

    The only reason I stay is because it annoys you so for me to hang on to this sinking ship.
    I don't see it as a sinking ship; you do. But since I'm such a nice guy, would you like me to throw you overboard with a life jacket? Let me know.

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 54
    Last Post: 05-07-2016, 09:16 PM
  2. Replies: 21
    Last Post: 11-05-2014, 06:09 PM
  3. Blood type and MBTI type
    By niffer in forum The Bonfire
    Replies: 25
    Last Post: 04-26-2014, 06:18 PM
  4. Brain types and body functions
    By jixmixfix in forum General Psychology
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 07-18-2009, 05:02 AM
  5. What's your ENNEAGRAM Type and Variant?
    By sakuraba in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 10-21-2008, 11:13 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO