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  1. #1
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Default The Fauvres' Tritypes Revisited - and Partially Rejected

    While tritype theory states: "research shows that the other types in the Tritype are employed for use when the dominant patterns and defenses are no longer effective. The Tritype is therefore usually only engaged when the defenses of both wings and all the lines of connection have been exhausted," this doesn't appear to be even remotely true according to my own research. (See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tritype for more on the Fauvre's theory of Tritypes.)

    Rather, "dominant patterns and defenses" are employed according to circumstances in one's environment. The primary (or core) motivation controls one's life destiny. It is accompanied by alternate motivations (psychological needs) deemed most appropriate for whatever particular tasks, such as, "I don't want people to think I'm a bad person," or, "I just want to be left alone."

    Motivations that conflict versus those that don't conflict.

    Your core motivation may or may not conflict with your wing-type's motivation. However, it does not conflict with tritype motivations founded within the other two Centers. So while my 4-wing will conflict with core 5, in its role as a tritype, 4's motivations do not directly conflict with 5's motivations, or even necessarily support them, just as emotion can separate from thinking, temporarily negating the motivating power behind thinking (which is to intellectualize or rationalize away the personal and social value of emotions or "feelings"). Thus the 5's defenses are circumvented and replaced by other motivations that are completely foreign to the 5's motivations due to the dualistic internal relationship created by them.

    As far as I can tell, the Fauvres neglected to mention the role that the lines play regarding tritypes. If I have point 4 in my tritype, this leaves the possibility of moving to 2 or 1 when 5's motivations have been circumvented. If I have point 9 in my tritype, then likewise, this alternate motivating force can move to 3 or 6 when its motivations have circumvented those of the 5.

    Various motivations can co-exist in the same psychological moment

    While monistic Enneagram theory builds upon the theory of core motivations, human nature is, in reality, and at any given moment, infinitely more complex than this. But humans have a built-in desire to simplify all things down to a single formula, such as the 9 core motivations, or even a single motivation governing all humans, such as "I want to have control over my destiny (and as a corollary, over the destiny of others either directly or indirectly)." If we can learn to control this desire to boil everything down to a single principle, then we can force destiny to conform to our wills rather than vice versa.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  2. #2
    Senior Member Sanjuro's Avatar
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    I can't explain myself in enneagram terms WITHOUT tritype.

    That said, I agree with this:

    While tritype theory states: "research shows that the other types in the Tritype are employed for use when the dominant patterns and defenses are no longer effective. The Tritype is therefore usually only engaged when the defenses of both wings and all the lines of connection have been exhausted," this doesn't appear to be even remotely true according to my own research.
    I personally feel like a meldy-mergy formulation of both my wings on a daily basis. The core type seems to emerge from that of its own accord. At some basic level, I guess that, therefore, I am using all of these defenses and strategies together, but they make it sound so simplistic.

    I see it more like "centers of intelligence"--when an issue affects the heart center (my relationships to others, how I am perceived, my sense of value), that sets of the strategies of that center. When an issue affects my gut center (violation, autonomy issues, etc), that sets of the strategies there. When an issue sets off the head center (guidance, the need to form a "map", uncertainties), those issues get set off then.

    I think the core type and stacking of your tritype are likely to show which set of issues you are MOST aware of. But it's not as clear-cut a process as they are making it sound in the quote above, no.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sanjuro View Post
    I can't explain myself in enneagram terms WITHOUT tritype.

    That said, I agree with this:



    I personally feel like a meldy-mergy formulation of both my wings on a daily basis. The core type seems to emerge from that of its own accord. At some basic level, I guess that, therefore, I am using all of these defenses and strategies together, but they make it sound so simplistic.

    I see it more like "centers of intelligence"--when an issue affects the heart center (my relationships to others, how I am perceived, my sense of value), that sets of the strategies of that center. When an issue affects my gut center (violation, autonomy issues, etc), that sets of the strategies there. When an issue sets off the head center (guidance, the need to form a "map", uncertainties), those issues get set off then.

    I think the core type and stacking of your tritype are likely to show which set of issues you are MOST aware of. But it's not as clear-cut a process as they are making it sound in the quote above, no.
    That's exactly right.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  4. #4
    Blood of the Exile Animal's Avatar
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    I will be watching this thread carefully. Very interesting points. I have mixed feelings about tritype, but this makes a lot of sense.
    Art is the blood of the Exile
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  5. #5
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Animal View Post
    I will be watching this thread carefully. Very interesting points. I have mixed feelings about tritype, but this makes a lot of sense.
    This thread won't be worth watching if we don't keep it going. It looks like the Fauvres are trying to ram yet another formula down our throats, probably to make their theory feel more Enneagram-like.

    "...research shows that the other types in the Tritype are employed for use when the dominant patterns and defenses are no longer effective. The Tritype is therefore usually only engaged when the defenses of both wings and all the lines of connection have been exhausted..."

    And yet, other "research" indicates that these "defenses and patterns" shift according to the needs and desires brought forth by one's environment, and how one interprets those needs and desires in accordance with a personal values theory of how to deal with and respond to various things. (That's not Fi thinking, we all have values which we call our own, and various methods for responding to values and disvalues.)
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  6. #6
    brainheart
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    My biggest problem with tritype is the idea that people of the same tritype will have more in common than those of the same core type with different tritypes, or that tritype somehow trumps core type. That hasn't been my experience, even remotely.

    That said, I feel like I am a 4 with a 5 wing who has a really strong connection to that line to seven, and it seems to be stronger than a lot of 4w5s I know. Is that because I'm in a perpetual state of disintegration? I don't know. I definitely felt more of the five wing (less of the seven) until I hit my twenties (and that's when I started having bipolar stuff go on so that really throws a wrench in things. What's hypomania? What's personality?) And my gut seems to be really insignificant in comparison to my head and heart. I don't know if this is because one is an awful lot like inferior Te and so they manifest in a similar fashion or what.

  7. #7
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sanjuro View Post
    I see it more like "centers of intelligence"--when an issue affects the heart center (my relationships to others, how I am perceived, my sense of value), that sets of the strategies of that center. When an issue affects my gut center (violation, autonomy issues, etc), that sets of the strategies there. When an issue sets off the head center (guidance, the need to form a "map", uncertainties), those issues get set off then.
    This is great -- I hadn't thought about it that way before.

    The tritype idea is relatively new, right? Meaning, other people haven't had as much time to take it from the Fauvres -- give it to the people, keep it from being "ruled" by its creators. I figure it's only a matter of time until it gets to that point, and critiquing and refining it here is as good a place to start(/continue?) as any.
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  8. #8
    brainheart
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sanjuro View Post
    I see it more like "centers of intelligence"--when an issue affects the heart center (my relationships to others, how I am perceived, my sense of value), that sets of the strategies of that center. When an issue affects my gut center (violation, autonomy issues, etc), that sets of the strategies there. When an issue sets off the head center (guidance, the need to form a "map", uncertainties), those issues get set off then.
    I have difficulty seeing how you compartmentalize these things so easily. Maybe it's because as a fi dom four my emotions are so entangled in everything. It's how my brain works, it's how my gut works, it's how my heart works...

  9. #9
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brainheart View Post
    My biggest problem with tritype is the idea that people of the same tritype will have more in common than those of the same core type with different tritypes, or that tritype somehow trumps core type. That hasn't been my experience, even remotely.

    That said, I feel like I am a 4 with a 5 wing who has a really strong connection to that line to seven, and it seems to be stronger than a lot of 4w5s I know. Is that because I'm in a perpetual state of disintegration? I don't know. I definitely felt more of the five wing (less of the seven) until I hit my twenties (and that's when I started having bipolar stuff go on so that really throws a wrench in things. What's hypomania? What's personality?) And my gut seems to be really insignificant in comparison to my head and heart. I don't know if this is because one is an awful lot like inferior Te and so they manifest in a similar fashion or what.
    The type 4 with whatever wing it has literally closer to the head triad than the gut triad because of its position on the enneagram. If you feel a strong connection to 7 then that's a tritype point for you.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  10. #10
    Senior Member Sanjuro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    This is great -- I hadn't thought about it that way before.

    The tritype idea is relatively new, right? Meaning, other people haven't had as much time to take it from the Fauvres -- give it to the people, keep it from being "ruled" by its creators. I figure it's only a matter of time until it gets to that point, and critiquing and refining it here is as good a place to start(/continue?) as any.
    It's not actually. I think Ichazo initially began teaching enneagram in terms of "trifix"--one core type in whatever triad, with a secondary and tertiary point in each other center of intelligence. For some reason, this was later eschewed by Naranjo, who instead chose to focus on instincts. His knowledge went viral, and Riso and Hudson picked it up through the Jesuit teachings and conducted their own research.

    So, it's more fair to say that tritype was there in the beginning, but was forgotten until the Fauvres did recent research on it. But sure, other people are looking into these patterns too, doing their own research, and drawing their own conclusions. Including us.

    Quote Originally Posted by brainheart View Post
    I have difficulty seeing how you compartmentalize these things so easily. Maybe it's because as a fi dom four my emotions are so entangled in everything. It's how my brain works, it's how my gut works, it's how my heart works...
    I guess that's my Ti--making a system of everything, finding the underlying "principles" to whatever I see.

    Maybe you're 4w5/4w4/4w4! The all-consuming force!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Mal12345 View Post
    The type 4 with whatever wing it has literally closer to the head triad than the gut triad because of its position on the enneagram. If you feel a strong connection to 7 then that's a tritype point for you.
    The Fauvres do say that 4s often have trouble finding their gut type due to the 1-connection and the personality being out of touch with the gut as a whole. But I agree, if you feel a strong connection to 7, might as well make it your head-fix. Ultimately, the issues you have are the issues you have, and everything else is just hair-splitting. The fixes won't matter as much for some people.

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