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[Tritype] The Fauvres' Tritypes Revisited - and Partially Rejected

Mal12345

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While tritype theory states: "research shows that the other types in the Tritype are employed for use when the dominant patterns and defenses are no longer effective. The Tritype is therefore usually only engaged when the defenses of both wings and all the lines of connection have been exhausted," this doesn't appear to be even remotely true according to my own research. (See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tritype for more on the Fauvre's theory of Tritypes.)

Rather, "dominant patterns and defenses" are employed according to circumstances in one's environment. The primary (or core) motivation controls one's life destiny. It is accompanied by alternate motivations (psychological needs) deemed most appropriate for whatever particular tasks, such as, "I don't want people to think I'm a bad person," or, "I just want to be left alone."

Motivations that conflict versus those that don't conflict.

Your core motivation may or may not conflict with your wing-type's motivation. However, it does not conflict with tritype motivations founded within the other two Centers. So while my 4-wing will conflict with core 5, in its role as a tritype, 4's motivations do not directly conflict with 5's motivations, or even necessarily support them, just as emotion can separate from thinking, temporarily negating the motivating power behind thinking (which is to intellectualize or rationalize away the personal and social value of emotions or "feelings"). Thus the 5's defenses are circumvented and replaced by other motivations that are completely foreign to the 5's motivations due to the dualistic internal relationship created by them.

As far as I can tell, the Fauvres neglected to mention the role that the lines play regarding tritypes. If I have point 4 in my tritype, this leaves the possibility of moving to 2 or 1 when 5's motivations have been circumvented. If I have point 9 in my tritype, then likewise, this alternate motivating force can move to 3 or 6 when its motivations have circumvented those of the 5.

Various motivations can co-exist in the same psychological moment

While monistic Enneagram theory builds upon the theory of core motivations, human nature is, in reality, and at any given moment, infinitely more complex than this. But humans have a built-in desire to simplify all things down to a single formula, such as the 9 core motivations, or even a single motivation governing all humans, such as "I want to have control over my destiny (and as a corollary, over the destiny of others either directly or indirectly)." If we can learn to control this desire to boil everything down to a single principle, then we can force destiny to conform to our wills rather than vice versa.
 

Chad of the OttomanEmpire

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I can't explain myself in enneagram terms WITHOUT tritype.

That said, I agree with this:

While tritype theory states: "research shows that the other types in the Tritype are employed for use when the dominant patterns and defenses are no longer effective. The Tritype is therefore usually only engaged when the defenses of both wings and all the lines of connection have been exhausted," this doesn't appear to be even remotely true according to my own research.

I personally feel like a meldy-mergy formulation of both my wings on a daily basis. The core type seems to emerge from that of its own accord. At some basic level, I guess that, therefore, I am using all of these defenses and strategies together, but they make it sound so simplistic.

I see it more like "centers of intelligence"--when an issue affects the heart center (my relationships to others, how I am perceived, my sense of value), that sets of the strategies of that center. When an issue affects my gut center (violation, autonomy issues, etc), that sets of the strategies there. When an issue sets off the head center (guidance, the need to form a "map", uncertainties), those issues get set off then.

I think the core type and stacking of your tritype are likely to show which set of issues you are MOST aware of. But it's not as clear-cut a process as they are making it sound in the quote above, no.
 

Mal12345

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I can't explain myself in enneagram terms WITHOUT tritype.

That said, I agree with this:



I personally feel like a meldy-mergy formulation of both my wings on a daily basis. The core type seems to emerge from that of its own accord. At some basic level, I guess that, therefore, I am using all of these defenses and strategies together, but they make it sound so simplistic.

I see it more like "centers of intelligence"--when an issue affects the heart center (my relationships to others, how I am perceived, my sense of value), that sets of the strategies of that center. When an issue affects my gut center (violation, autonomy issues, etc), that sets of the strategies there. When an issue sets off the head center (guidance, the need to form a "map", uncertainties), those issues get set off then.

I think the core type and stacking of your tritype are likely to show which set of issues you are MOST aware of. But it's not as clear-cut a process as they are making it sound in the quote above, no.

That's exactly right.
 

Animal

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I will be watching this thread carefully. Very interesting points. I have mixed feelings about tritype, but this makes a lot of sense.
 

Mal12345

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I will be watching this thread carefully. Very interesting points. I have mixed feelings about tritype, but this makes a lot of sense.

This thread won't be worth watching if we don't keep it going. It looks like the Fauvres are trying to ram yet another formula down our throats, probably to make their theory feel more Enneagram-like.

"...research shows that the other types in the Tritype are employed for use when the dominant patterns and defenses are no longer effective. The Tritype is therefore usually only engaged when the defenses of both wings and all the lines of connection have been exhausted..."

And yet, other "research" indicates that these "defenses and patterns" shift according to the needs and desires brought forth by one's environment, and how one interprets those needs and desires in accordance with a personal values theory of how to deal with and respond to various things. (That's not Fi thinking, we all have values which we call our own, and various methods for responding to values and disvalues.)
 
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brainheart

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My biggest problem with tritype is the idea that people of the same tritype will have more in common than those of the same core type with different tritypes, or that tritype somehow trumps core type. That hasn't been my experience, even remotely.

That said, I feel like I am a 4 with a 5 wing who has a really strong connection to that line to seven, and it seems to be stronger than a lot of 4w5s I know. Is that because I'm in a perpetual state of disintegration? I don't know. I definitely felt more of the five wing (less of the seven) until I hit my twenties (and that's when I started having bipolar stuff go on so that really throws a wrench in things. What's hypomania? What's personality?) And my gut seems to be really insignificant in comparison to my head and heart. I don't know if this is because one is an awful lot like inferior Te and so they manifest in a similar fashion or what.
 

EJCC

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I see it more like "centers of intelligence"--when an issue affects the heart center (my relationships to others, how I am perceived, my sense of value), that sets of the strategies of that center. When an issue affects my gut center (violation, autonomy issues, etc), that sets of the strategies there. When an issue sets off the head center (guidance, the need to form a "map", uncertainties), those issues get set off then.
This is great -- I hadn't thought about it that way before.

The tritype idea is relatively new, right? Meaning, other people haven't had as much time to take it from the Fauvres -- give it to the people, keep it from being "ruled" by its creators. I figure it's only a matter of time until it gets to that point, and critiquing and refining it here is as good a place to start(/continue?) as any.
 
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brainheart

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I see it more like "centers of intelligence"--when an issue affects the heart center (my relationships to others, how I am perceived, my sense of value), that sets of the strategies of that center. When an issue affects my gut center (violation, autonomy issues, etc), that sets of the strategies there. When an issue sets off the head center (guidance, the need to form a "map", uncertainties), those issues get set off then.

I have difficulty seeing how you compartmentalize these things so easily. Maybe it's because as a fi dom four my emotions are so entangled in everything. It's how my brain works, it's how my gut works, it's how my heart works...
 

Mal12345

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My biggest problem with tritype is the idea that people of the same tritype will have more in common than those of the same core type with different tritypes, or that tritype somehow trumps core type. That hasn't been my experience, even remotely.

That said, I feel like I am a 4 with a 5 wing who has a really strong connection to that line to seven, and it seems to be stronger than a lot of 4w5s I know. Is that because I'm in a perpetual state of disintegration? I don't know. I definitely felt more of the five wing (less of the seven) until I hit my twenties (and that's when I started having bipolar stuff go on so that really throws a wrench in things. What's hypomania? What's personality?) And my gut seems to be really insignificant in comparison to my head and heart. I don't know if this is because one is an awful lot like inferior Te and so they manifest in a similar fashion or what.

The type 4 with whatever wing it has literally closer to the head triad than the gut triad because of its position on the enneagram. If you feel a strong connection to 7 then that's a tritype point for you.
 

Chad of the OttomanEmpire

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This is great -- I hadn't thought about it that way before.

The tritype idea is relatively new, right? Meaning, other people haven't had as much time to take it from the Fauvres -- give it to the people, keep it from being "ruled" by its creators. I figure it's only a matter of time until it gets to that point, and critiquing and refining it here is as good a place to start(/continue?) as any.
It's not actually. I think Ichazo initially began teaching enneagram in terms of "trifix"--one core type in whatever triad, with a secondary and tertiary point in each other center of intelligence. For some reason, this was later eschewed by Naranjo, who instead chose to focus on instincts. His knowledge went viral, and Riso and Hudson picked it up through the Jesuit teachings and conducted their own research.

So, it's more fair to say that tritype was there in the beginning, but was forgotten until the Fauvres did recent research on it. But sure, other people are looking into these patterns too, doing their own research, and drawing their own conclusions. Including us.

I have difficulty seeing how you compartmentalize these things so easily. Maybe it's because as a fi dom four my emotions are so entangled in everything. It's how my brain works, it's how my gut works, it's how my heart works...
I guess that's my Ti--making a system of everything, finding the underlying "principles" to whatever I see.

Maybe you're 4w5/4w4/4w4! The all-consuming force!!

The type 4 with whatever wing it has literally closer to the head triad than the gut triad because of its position on the enneagram. If you feel a strong connection to 7 then that's a tritype point for you.
The Fauvres do say that 4s often have trouble finding their gut type due to the 1-connection and the personality being out of touch with the gut as a whole. But I agree, if you feel a strong connection to 7, might as well make it your head-fix. Ultimately, the issues you have are the issues you have, and everything else is just hair-splitting. The fixes won't matter as much for some people.
 
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Maybe you're 4w5/4w4/4w4! The all-consuming force!!

Yep, that's pretty much it. :)


The Fauvres do say that 4s often have trouble finding their gut type due to the 1-connection and the personality being out of touch with the gut as a whole. But I agree, if you feel a strong connection to 7, might as well make it your head-fix. Ultimately, the issues you have are the issues you have, and everything else is just hair-splitting. The fixes won't matter as much for some people.

Yeah, I agree. I think a strong case could be made for seven as my head fix (although I think it also can be explained by sp/sx four), but as far as the gut goes, it's like it doesn't even matter.
 

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The wing types and lines of connection are essential as the enneagram is a dynamic trialectic system.

The only misinformation was that we move to the lines of connection in integration/disintegration or stress/security. The side note is that Naranjo was misquoted when teaching his theory on the arrows in a SAT group in the early 1970s. This misquote went around the world. He corrected it in his first Enneagram Intensive in Bolder Colorado in 1996 stating he never meant to suggest that you move to one line positively and the other negatively but rather that you move to both lines of connection all of the time positively and negatively. He taught about the wings as well. That your type is simply the tension between your two wings.

I researched this with clients and found it to be true. For example, I found as a 5 you are trying to individuate and be a unique individual (4) while simultaneously trying to match and be accepted by your peers (6).... and then moving positively and negatively to your lines of connection. We all have access to all 9 types but the question is when and how, and in what order. When we move to our lines of connection we do not become those types as our dominant type remains in charge... but rather we pick up the qualities of the type in our line of connection.

The key is the "specialty" or focus of attention created by the intersection of the 3 types in the Tritype. With 459 they all concur that it is essential to stand back and be reflective and introspective before engaging with others. The overall desire of the 459 Tritype is for others to move towards them in social situations and make them feel more comfortable sharing as they feel inhibited and do not jump into conversations. The false belief is that others are more at ease with social relating. What is often missed is that many Tritypes move towards others and engage in conversation because they feel so ill at ease if they don't....and sometimes they find they are so nervous they cannot stop talking... ;)) This would be amplified by instinct of course...
 

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[...]
The key is the "specialty" or focus of attention created by the intersection of the 3 types in the Tritype. With 459 they all concur that it is essential to stand back and be reflective and introspective before engaging with others. The overall desire of the 459 Tritype is for others to move towards them in social situations and make them feel more comfortable sharing as they feel inhibited and do not jump into conversations. The false belief is that others are more at ease with social relating. What is often missed is that many Tritypes move towards others and engage in conversation because they feel so ill at ease if they don't....and sometimes they find they are so nervous they cannot stop talking... ;)) This would be amplified by instinct of course...

This is slightly off topic, but a recent revelation for me (in my mid 40s) is to realize that I'm not the only one who brings the awkward. As a 549, I somehow felt I was uniquely responsible for any awkwardness that happened when interacting with others. Events of the last few years (and feedback from others) has shown me that I'm not particularly awkward socially, and actually am pretty amusing and easy to interact with (at least in many circumstances).

Objectively it seems ridiculous, but I really did feel responsible whenever interactions didn't go entirely smoothly. Somehow it was entirely my fault if an interaction with someone else didn't go well. There was also a big disconnect between my partner's perception of how I did in social interactions (for example), and how I felt I had done. I'm still reconciling things, but accepting that others may be more socially awkward than I am has been a challenge. Just knowing my perception is flawed in that area has let me take my self-evaluations in that area less seriously. Yes, I may still perceive myself to be awkward, but it's hardly the end of the world.
 

Chad of the OttomanEmpire

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This is slightly off topic, but a recent revelation for me (in my mid 40s) is to realize that I'm not the only one who brings the awkward. As a 549, I somehow felt I was uniquely responsible for any awkwardness that happened when interacting with others. Events of the last few years (and feedback from others) has shown me that I'm not particularly awkward socially, and actually am pretty amusing and easy to interact with (at least in many circumstances).

Objectively it seems ridiculous, but I really did feel responsible whenever interactions didn't go entirely smoothly. Somehow it was entirely my fault if an interaction with someone else didn't go well. There was also a big disconnect between my partner's perception of how I did in social interactions (for example), and how I felt I had done. I'm still reconciling things, but accepting that others may be more socially awkward than I am has been a challenge. Just knowing my perception is flawed in that area has let me take my self-evaluations in that area less seriously. Yes, I may still perceive myself to be awkward, but it's hardly the end of the world.
OMG, same experience. Not 459 tritype, though. Then one day I realized that conversations are actually 2-way streets, and that maybe it's actually the other person who's being awkward, and maybe I don't appear particularly out-of-sorts, myself!
 

Katherine8

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This is slightly off topic, but a recent revelation for me (in my mid 40s) is to realize that I'm not the only one who brings the awkward. As a 549, I somehow felt I was uniquely responsible for any awkwardness that happened when interacting with others. Events of the last few years (and feedback from others) has shown me that I'm not particularly awkward socially, and actually am pretty amusing and easy to interact with (at least in many circumstances).

Objectively it seems ridiculous, but I really did feel responsible whenever interactions didn't go entirely smoothly. Somehow it was entirely my fault if an interaction with someone else didn't go well. There was also a big disconnect between my partner's perception of how I did in social interactions (for example), and how I felt I had done. I'm still reconciling things, but accepting that others may be more socially awkward than I am has been a challenge. Just knowing my perception is flawed in that area has let me take my self-evaluations in that area less seriously. Yes, I may still perceive myself to be awkward, but it's hardly the end of the world.


Great points.... awkward is the operative word.... everyone feels ill at ease if they are in awkward moments... but quick-witted types just cover it well ;))
 

Katherine8

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This is slightly off topic, but a recent revelation for me (in my mid 40s) is to realize that I'm not the only one who brings the awkward. As a 549, I somehow felt I was uniquely responsible for any awkwardness that happened when interacting with others. Events of the last few years (and feedback from others) has shown me that I'm not particularly awkward socially, and actually am pretty amusing and easy to interact with (at least in many circumstances).

Objectively it seems ridiculous, but I really did feel responsible whenever interactions didn't go entirely smoothly. Somehow it was entirely my fault if an interaction with someone else didn't go well. There was also a big disconnect between my partner's perception of how I did in social interactions (for example), and how I felt I had done. I'm still reconciling things, but accepting that others may be more socially awkward than I am has been a challenge. Just knowing my perception is flawed in that area has let me take my self-evaluations in that area less seriously. Yes, I may still perceive myself to be awkward, but it's hardly the end of the world.

Thanks for sharing this as it is so very true....
But I hear it the most from 5, 6 and then
9....
 
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