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Thread: 4s - Why

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by collierm48 View Post
    Wrong. I like unhealthy 4s better because then I dont have to hear their self pitiful bullshit, they just keep their ignorant jealousy in and tourture them selves, just way that they deserve it to be. Its certainly not my fault that people like that dont know how to deal with their feelings.
    I think you must be misinformed. I become very whiny and cynical when I'm unhealthy. When I'm healthy, I'm more like I am right now.
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  2. #52
    Senior Member TheCheeseBurgerKing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noll View Post
    I think you must be misinformed. I become very whiny and cynical when I'm unhealthy. When I'm healthy, I'm more like I am right now.
    Maybe im thinking of different levels of unhealthiness. Maybe not sure

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    From enneagraminstitute, a chart on the unhealthy to healthy descriptions of a 4.

    Type Four—More Depth by Level
    Healthy Levels
    Level 1 (At Their Best): Profoundly creative, expressing the personal and the universal, possibly in a work of art. Inspired, self-renewing and regenerating: able to transform all their experiences into something valuable: self-creative.

    Level 2: Self-aware, introspective, on the "search for self," aware of feelings and inner impulses. Sensitive and intuitive both to self and others: gentle, tactful, compassionate.

    Level 3: Highly personal, individualistic, "true to self." Self-revealing, emotionally honest, humane. Ironic view of self and life: can be serious and funny, vulnerable and emotionally strong.

    Average Levels
    Level 4: Take an artistic, romantic orientation to life, creating a beautiful, aesthetic environment to cultivate and prolong personal feelings. Heighten reality through fantasy, passionate feelings, and the imagination.

    Level 5: To stay in touch with feelings, they interiorize everything, taking everything personally, but become self-absorbed and introverted, moody and hypersensitive, shy and self-conscious, unable to be spontaneous or to "get out of themselves." Stay withdrawn to protect their self-image and to buy time to sort out feelings.

    Level 6: Gradually think that they are different from others, and feel that they are exempt from living as everyone else does. They become melancholy dreamers, disdainful, decadent, and sensual, living in a fantasy world. Self-pity and envy of others leads to self-indulgence, and to becoming increasingly impractical, unproductive, effete, and precious.

    Unhealthy Levels
    Level 7: When dreams fail, become self-inhibiting and angry at self, depressed and alienated from self and others, blocked and emotionally paralyzed. Ashamed of self, fatigued and unable to function.

    Level 8: Tormented by delusional self-contempt, self-reproaches, self-hatred, and morbid thoughts: everything is a source of torment. Blaming others, they drive away anyone who tries to help them.

    Level 9: Despairing, feel hopeless and become self-destructive, possibly abusing alcohol or drugs to escape. In the extreme: emotional breakdown or suicide is likely. Generally corresponds to the Avoidant, Depressive, and Narcissistic personality disorders.
    Seems envy and self-pity are both located on the last level before entering into truly unhealthy territory.
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  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by collierm48 View Post
    oh you poor soul, you're jealous boohoo. 4s suck

    @Zarathustra
    My conclusion: 4s are baby back bitches that some how get away with functioning in society this way.
    Im not jealous all the time. I'm actually a very reasonable partner. The point is that when I have these feelings it's better if I express it. Everyone has such feelings and my willingness to express it can even disarm the other person and cause open communication. Obviously I would not be able to communicate well with anyone who just said "Who you are SUCKS" and decided which type of people are 'good' or 'suck' and I'm in the suck category. If that's the case I wouldn't be with that person. But in most of my relationships, the other person is equally or more jealous than I am.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noll View Post
    I think you must be misinformed. I become very whiny and cynical when I'm unhealthy. When I'm healthy, I'm more like I am right now.
    When I'm unhealthy I'm LESS whiny and expressive. More just whining into my music and wishing the other person would "figure it out" which I think is unhealthy and unrealistic. When I'm healthy I express myself, which means the problem gets solved and then I feel better.
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  6. #56
    So she did. small.wonder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by collierm48 View Post
    Wrong. I like unhealthy 4s better because then I dont have to hear their self pitiful bullshit, they just keep their ignorant jealousy in and tourture them selves, just way that they deserve it to be. Its certainly not my fault that people like that dont know how to deal with their feelings.
    Woah there, you are quite misinformed. Healthy 4's are the opposite of self pitying, we become much more direct, controlled and purposeful like a 1 (4's integration point). Saying you prefer someone who is passive aggressive to someone who uses their words and speaks truth is weak. I do not value or lend my time to people who are too weak to handle truth. Healthy 4's are realists who've allowed their pain and scars to be redeemed and used for good, often through creative expression that serves to encourage and speak the truth of "beauty from ashes" to the world at large.
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  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noll View Post
    Really? I have a hard time imagining a lazy 3w2 or 1. 4's, 5's, 7's and 9's makes me think of laziness. Basically the most common types on this forum.
    I'm a 1w2, and I am lazy. I just hide it as hard as I can, and fight against it when I have to.
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  8. #58
    Senior Member TheCheeseBurgerKing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by small.wonder View Post
    Woah there, you are quite misinformed. Healthy 4's are the opposite of self pitying, we become much more direct, controlled and purposeful like a 1 (4's integration point). Saying you prefer someone who is passive aggressive to someone who uses their words and speaks truth is weak. I do not value or lend my time to people who are too weak to handle truth. Healthy 4's are realists who've allowed their pain and scars to be redeemed and used for good, often through creative expression that serves to encourage and speak the truth of "beauty from ashes" to the world at large.
    Well i agree with what you just said. I must have been explaining something wrong.

    It was just the way that animal explained 4s that i reacted too. She said it like they just cried when they were jealous and expected people to except that. That had to have been misinformation because thats unhealthy.

    Its just that I hate the thought that someone who should be supporting me wants me to fail inside.
    The whole idea of someone watching what I do and feeling anything other than happy for me is just ridiculous to me because I always wish well for others. As long as they aren't big morons.

    Really, I have some internal fears that Im sorting out and I hate it because it takes my focus that I want to use on my goals.
    Im sorting it out, its just complicated.


    EDIT: really the thing i dont like about 4s is the tendency to hold grudges do to pride.
    Theres plenty that I dont like about myself as well

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by collierm48 View Post
    It was just the way that animal explained 4s that i reacted too. She said it like they just cried when they were jealous and expected people to except that. That had to have been misinformation because thats unhealthy.
    It's not misinformation or unheatlhy. It has to do with direct communication.

    I've had partners that aren't 4s - MALE partners - who have cried because they were jealous. Some have broken things. And then I've had some partners who never cried or broke anything, but constantly checked up on me. (to be clear, breaking things is not okay - I don't accept any violence and leave at any sign of it)

    I don't do anything underhanded. If I'm too unstable to get in a relationship, I don't get into one. If I'm in a good relationship where communication is open and welcome, then if I need to cry, I cry, and so does he. My last boyfriend was a 9w8 and cried as much during the relationship as I did. It was still only a handful of times, but it shows that we trusted each other to show emotions. Nothing unhealthy about that. My first boyfriend was an 8w7 and cried for me more often than I did. Even got on his knees and cried and begged me not to leave him.

    Don't mistake discussing something and showing emotion here and there, for a whole relationship of crying and manipulation. It seems to me that you are jumping to a conclusion that is unrelated to what I meant by my post.

    I can't stand men who run the other way every time I show any emotion or express upsetness. That is unhealthy. Me crying every day, or even every week, woudl be unhealthy as well, but feeling like if I need to cry I can cry to him directly, is healthy, and its something that my boyfriends give back to me.

    And no, I don't date wimps. i am actually into rugged men who can do things with their hands. But those are still humans who like to feel safe to express emotions with someone they love.


    Its just that I hate the thought that someone who should be supporting me wants me to fail inside.
    The whole idea of someone watching what I do and feeling anything other than happy for me is just ridiculous to me because I always wish well for others. As long as they aren't big morons.
    Presumption city here. ;P

    I've never been jealous of someone doing something to make them happy for themselves. I'm talking about being jealous of their exes or another woman they might like better, which is something I should be able to discuss.

    In fact - in any given relationship - my partner is more jealous of MY free time because I spend more time alone than anyone else I've ever met. I need tons of time to myself and i LOVE it when I have a partner with tons of interests of his own so he won't take up all my time. I'm very happy for the accomplishments of others, even exes.

    The jealousy is just about comparing myself to his own exes, not to his activities or things he does for himself, which has NEVER EVER been an issue with me, even slightly.

    If there's anything 4s can understand, it's the will for someone to express themselves. I would never take that away from anyone, and I would not want anyone to take it from me.

    I've never had a man complain that I'm too jealous or I cry too much. The worst complaint I receive over and over is that I'm too detached and spend too much time doing my own thing. That's why I said it's HEALTHIER if I am able to express my emotions and resolve an issue directly, rather than simply being detached and aloof and feeling like he wouldn't understand, which creates distance and ruins communication.


    Communication is healthy.
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  10. #60
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    Anyway it's very obvious to me why communication is failing in the relationship that has been cited here. I mentioned feeling comfortable to cry and resolve something with a partner and the presumption was made that I'm jealous of the things that make them happy. It seems to me @collierm48 - you are the one who is unhealthy. Maybe your partner is too, but if you are half as presumptuous with him as you were with me, reading meaning into the post that wasn't there, and blowing things way out of proportion to make widespread assumptions, then no wonder he's unhappy. If he's lucky you'll cut him loose and he'll find someone who he can be honest with, who won't read hidden expectations into his attempts at genuine communication.
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