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Thread: 4s - Why

  1. #41
    Unapologetic being Evolving Transparency's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    My problem is that I require emotional closeness and work hard to establish that. While I have no problem creating the random moment here and there with acquaintances and friends, people who I hold dear I need a permanent state with to feel safe - to truly be myself. And having someone who non-stop reverts to the 'keeping them at arms-length' position is incredibly taxing for me. It basically means you're nonstop wiggling on my inner/outer circle line which drastically influences the amount of info you're entitled to. Compare it to non-stop having to open and close the castle gate - it gets exhausting as beyond the walls I'll stay in full battle armour and inside, I usually take off my armour.

    6's seem to be focused on uncovering any inconsistencies that could in their mind hide unveiled truth. I get it, it is what makes you so great at anticipating danger and guarding against betrayal. But that means you're non-stop putting the topic/issue/problem before our relationship. *We* are never the priority. And that to me is the antithesis of trust. It also means that when I've been lulled into being comfortable around you and letting my guard down, it feels as if you're suddenly dragging me into the police station to be questioned by the KGB and dragged in front of a judge and jury. It's like having a friend that wears a wire around you - for me. And I...I just don't respond well to that. With friends, it wrecks the bond. People who do this to me when they don't even know me that well, I experience as just utterly disrespectful and arrogant as they apparently feel entitled to answers from me to soothe their own anxiety while questioning me in the most hostile way. It's like the inquisition all over again.

    Anyways, call me elitist, but I feel that if you've vetted me and you have been my friend for a while, you owe me the benefit of the doubt - even and *especially* when you cannot see where Im coming from or why I would say such a thing. And (this is an Fi demand) that you actually have some grasp on who I am.That you'll know that the perception you're getting right now is in direct opposition with the person you know me to be - which *should* imho initially carry more weight than your snap shot of a perception. And often, I find, that that is not the case. Anxiety kicks in and the interrogation starts. Note that I said 'interrogation'. Genuine curiosity, genuine awareness of the fact that they don't have to answer your questions ( you don't even have to state this, it will just show in how you ask the question) and a desire to understand is very much appreciated as that leads again to feeling loved and understood.

    I show my love by attempting to understand someone, to truly get where they're coming from and what is important to them in life. And yes, at the highest levels of friendship - and especially in my mate for life - I crave that someone does at least somewhat do the same for me. When you each time call me in for questioning, without the benefit of the doubt (You actually are pretty good about the benefit of the doubt, btw ),without taking two minutes to ask yourself how the situation likely makes sense to me, how it could not be what you perceive it to be, and how you can actually be fairly certain that that is what i meant due to who I am...it breaks my heart - and make me feel unloved. It effectively makes me question if Ive invested more in you than you in me. And it also annoys the crap out of me to find that you call me in for questioning every time on the same pattern (Ne-dom elitism?) that I've explained a hundred times to you now, just because *to you*, it still doesn't make sense. It's exhausting to non-stop have the burden of proof put upon you and have your loyalty questioned like that. And I experience it as extremely disrespectful - though I'm aware none of this is likely to be meant this way.

    But yeah, that makes me grant you your wish - keeping you at arm's length and appreciating your friendship from a distance.

    The friend used in the example is an ISFJ who struggles with the balance between trusting her tertiary Ti and overly relying on it as well as overvaluing the mastery of it, which riddles her with anxiety. She subsequently feels both in awe and at risk of being played when around NTPs.
    This is good, I really wanted you to explain more, cause I wanted to pinpoint the real difference between me and the other 6. (I laughed at the part about wearing a wire lol.)

    Now where you said:

    It effectively makes me question if I've invested more in you than you in me.
    ^that part right there, I am asking myself that all the time. That is actually one of the ways I figure out how much I can trust someone. It plays a huge part in my relationships. And it will take some time for someone to prove that I'm not investing all my energy for nothing...but once I'm past that point. You're in. I am almost blind to your faults once we are past that point.

    I have actually had an ISFJ make me question whether they trust me or not. IMO I think it's cause they lose sight of the big picture. A simple example was when I was ordering a bunch of food but was in a rush. And my ISFJ friend was very upset with me that I didn't get them anything...Which in turn made me really angry lol. Cause 99.9% of the time I am the person that is always making sure I don't leave anyone out. And the one time I do leave someone out, I get questioned? If I had to put up with that kind of accusation on a consistent basis (which consistent could mean once every couple months or even just more than a few times) I would not be able to stay close with that person.

    So I can see if that trait being amplified by and ISFJ.

    And thank you I try really hard not to do that. Really hard. If I do question someone like that, it will often be in silence, as I wait for more context before I conclude anything. And you are right it's all about the way in which you ask the 4. Like I have learned to really ask my ENFP 4 friend what happened before I jump to conclusions. It is still hard though not to jump a little. Especially with her....for some odd reason. I think it may have to do with the part that she can be very dramatic. So the feedback I get from her, is not always consistent or "streamlined." (lol) Like I need to outright talk with her about where we stand for me to feel ok about it. And every time we do outright talk about it, I feel surprised because I am misjudging the situation. (Which is not usual for me )

    It's hard to remember in the moment that she (the ENFP 4) is just as or even more reactive than me. lol That, and I also cannot believe anything that anyone tells me about her...ever. Even when it's another concerned friend...lol cause the story will be all wrong , and causes drama...lol

    But the elitism you're concerned about probably comes from your 4-ness. I think I read that somewhere. And also it would make sense cause it's about image or what not. But also, it's Fi. You shouldn't have to prove yourself to anyone that isn't taking the time to get to know you. And IMO that's a healthy stance, so no worries.
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  2. #42
    Senior Member TheCheeseBurgerKing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Animal View Post
    Healthy: I tell my partner I'm jealous. I cry. He accepts it. I fall into his arms and laugh and thank him for accepting me. We make love.

    oh you poor soul, you're jealous boohoo. 4s suck

    @Zarathustra
    My conclusion: 4s are baby back bitches that some how get away with functioning in society this way.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by collierm48 View Post
    oh you poor soul, you're jealous boohoo. 4s suck

    @Zarathustra
    My conclusion: 4s are baby back bitches that some how get away with functioning in society this way.
    You're too funny. Do you really think we are functional?!
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  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noll View Post
    You're too funny. Do you really think we are functional?!
    Lol, fuck no. I cant say this for all 4s, but I know alot of you are lazy as fuck

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    Quote Originally Posted by collierm48 View Post
    Lol, fuck no. I cant say this for all 4s, but I know alot of you are lazy as fuck
    Yes hahaha. But I know of lazy 7's too.
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  6. #46
    So she did. small.wonder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    Seriously, tho...

    What is it about 6s and 4s?

    I honestly feel like we're both moths to each other's flames
    It's fascinating to me that there seems to be a lot of agreement around that (from both 4's and 6's here) but I don't feel that way at all. The "moth to flame" thing is more with 8's for me. I think maybe I'm generally not attracted to 6's because my older brother is 6w7 and (though I love and respect him greatly) I've seen through our relationship why I couldn't handle a 6 SO. It's mostly the anxiety and skepticism that I just couldn't stomach all the time, I do have some awesome 6 friends though.

    @collierm48 It sounds to me like you've just chosen unhealthy examples of 4, I get your frustration (unhealthy anything can be horrible) but I think you'd be pleasantly shocked if you met a healthy 4.
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  7. #47
    Senior Member TheCheeseBurgerKing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noll View Post
    Yes hahaha. But I know of lazy 7's too.
    Lol, Im sure that goes for everytype and every enneagram

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by collierm48 View Post
    Lol, Im sure that goes for everytype and every enneagram
    Really? I have a hard time imagining a lazy 3w2 or 1. 4's, 5's, 7's and 9's makes me think of laziness. Basically the most common types on this forum.
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  9. #49
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    @collierm48 It sounds to me like you've just chosen unhealthy examples of 4, I get your frustration (unhealthy anything can be horrible) but I think you'd be pleasantly shocked if you met a healthy 4.

    Wrong. I like unhealthy 4s better because then I dont have to hear their self pitiful bullshit, they just keep their ignorant jealousy in and tourture them selves, just way that they deserve it to be. Its certainly not my fault that people like that dont know how to deal with their feelings.

  10. #50
    Senior Member TheCheeseBurgerKing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noll View Post
    Really? I have a hard time imagining a lazy 3w2 or 1. 4's, 5's, 7's and 9's makes me think of laziness. Basically the most common types on this forum.
    I guess

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